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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 05:50 
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ldfan wrote:
the jog portion within the shuttle ring will not work w/ the CLD-D503


Probably the worst thing about mixing remotes with other players, i presume. Yes, i've tried the Jog to no avail; I've always used the shuttle for FF/RW when need be.

Kind of feel like a fool now; I did get scanning and speed to work. The ending of Hard Boiled was really need in slow mo..... 8-)

I guess all i'm really missing is freeze frame and jog. Maybe my DVL909 will be compatible with those... I think the DVL909 is internal memory... could be wrong.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 06:14 
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vectrex3000 wrote:

I guess all i'm really missing is freeze frame and jog.


Actually you are just missing the jog feature. You can still do freeze frame w/ the 503 (CAV only) by just pressing either of the "step" buttons. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 13:31 
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Ah I think I get it now.
He is missing that inner ring of the older Jog Shuttles like the 3030 would have had.

Its not about trick play its about that inner ring to do still step, he doesn't realize the step button is the same but just pressing over and over again
rather than just spinning the inner disc ring with your finger.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 17:16 
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...which has for sure been explained already.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 17:46 
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I will admit I don't really understand most of this stuff. For example the LD-S1 I got is a really nice player but basically doesn't support any CAV functions at all from what I can tell.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 18:05 
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I find it a little baffling that these supposedly higher end models can't do CAV trickplay but my player can and mine is so basic it probably has a pH level above 7.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 18:13 
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I think there needs to be a refresher on what trick play is.

S1 has trick play on both styles of discs.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 18:32 
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gypsy wrote:
I will admit I don't really understand most of this stuff. For example the LD-S1 I got is a really nice player but basically doesn't support any CAV functions at all from what I can tell.


Please re-read the thread everyone. EVERY LD PLAYER supports CAV functions. All of them. Even the ones that ran in Buick kiosks in 1978. All of them. Yours, mine, everyone. If you have the correct remote or serial access it will happen.

Now someone is going to produce the one player model number that somehow doesn’t but I’m %99.9 every single player does. It’s integral to the LD spec. It’s not a fancy feature that requires extra hardware. On CAV discs functions like Step and Frame or Time access are built into the format and a good selling feature. There is no reason to ever disable it when designing a player.

I can imagine someone making a deck so high end that they wanted to disable “vulgar” functions like Multi-Speed (like how there is no Scan on McIntosh CD players sometimes) but in the case of Pioneer they didn’t do that. Even the X-0 has the same Step buttons as everything else had so I’m pretty sure this never happened. It may have happened with a Sony but it would be broken by now anyway. The S201, the cheapest ever Pioneer deck also had the same CAV functions as everything else.

If you have CLV discs and want the CAV tricks your player must have digital field memory. That is something that many players, many good ones, don’t have but it was more common as time went on.

Also, all of this is explained in the manuals for the players. Now we live in a age where electronics are designed to be thrown away yearly but printing a manual wouldn’t be green so they don’t make them and we learn to operate stuff by oral tradition or YouTube. LD players however all come with a manual that tells every function it has, describes how to do every one of them, lists all features and formats supported, etc. If you can find a manual and you have the means I highly recommend it. Even a model close to yours may be educational.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 18:45 
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rein-o wrote:
Ah I think I get it now.
He is missing that inner ring of the older Jog Shuttles like the 3030 would have had.

Its not about trick play its about that inner ring to do still step, he doesn't realize the step button is the same but just pressing over and over again
rather than just spinning the inner disc ring with your finger.


I still haven’t done this yet but I’m going to see if the W1 style dial will work on the 503. The more I think about it the more I seem to recall that the inner dial on the 99 style remote didn’t work with my 503. Everything else does though.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 18:59 
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It doesn't even support still frame pausing. I thought that was a basic feature. It's not even a big deal, just something I noticed.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 19:23 
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rein-o wrote:
I think there needs to be a refresher on what trick play is.


I think people are used to seeing the button layout of a DVD and Blu-Ray player (as well as maybe a VHS VCR) and don't understand the way Pioneer designed their special effects buttons. Have to admit they are not of the typical styling we see today.



gypsy wrote:
It doesn't even support still frame pausing. I thought that was a basic feature. It's not even a big deal, just something I noticed.


"Step" button is freeze frame. :crazy:
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 19:32 
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Deleting posts! :p Anyway I will check that later. Every other player I have simply did it when pausing hence my confusion.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 19:39 
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Yes, if you pause you will get a blue or black screen depending on your player.
If you still step it will freeze the image.
At least that's with my older players, Can't remember right now about what screen you would get with an R7G.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 19:55 
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rein-o wrote:
Yes, if you pause you will get a blue or black screen depending on your player.
If you still step it will freeze the image.
At least that's with my older players, Can't remember right now about what screen you would get with an R7G.


I got it now guys! ;)

I think the S1 is the first pre-90s player I acquired. The CLD-2080 is fairly basic overall but still from 1991 iirc. Then the other two I have are super fancy.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 20:53 
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Yeah.

If it’s an “analog” deck:

Pause on CAV or CLV will be a blue screen.
Step or Multi-Speed on CAV will freeze frame but will just print “CLV” on the screen and keep playing it the disc is CLV.

If it’s a “digital” deck Trick Play is emulated for CLV also.

Pause on any disc will freeze frame. Multi-Speed is bad but extant on CLV as is Step.

The first “digital” deck was the LD-W1 I think. Maybe not. It did so many things first it’s hard to keep track. By the early 90s it was in $800 decks. By the time of the DVL it was in everything.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 21:11 
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signofzeta wrote:

The first “digital” deck was the LD-W1 I think. Maybe not. It did so many things first it’s hard to keep track..


The LD-W1 along with the CLD-3030 and LD-S1 were the very first three players to incorporate digital field memory.

Also, all the DVL models have field memory on board as I think it was a no brainer since the DVD portion of the player would automatically be able to do still frame since this format was designed from the start to have it. So if Pioneer left it out, people might wonder why one could still frame a DVD but not an LD (CLV only).
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 21:38 
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ldfan wrote:
signofzeta wrote:

The first “digital” deck was the LD-W1 I think. Maybe not. It did so many things first it’s hard to keep track..


The LD-W1 along with the CLD-3030 and LD-S1 were the very first three players to incorporate digital field memory.

Also, all the DVL models have field memory on board as I think it was a no brainer since the DVD portion of the player would automatically be able to do still frame since this format was designed from the start to have it. So if Pioneer left it out, people might wonder why one could still frame a DVD but not an LD (CLV only).



Good to hear this because i just got my DVL-909 player today. I have to get a remote though; Good thing they're only 8-20 bucks on eBay.

Sucks the remotes don't have a shuttle/jog though. It's extremely iconic to me, but i really want to take advantage of LAST MEMO and the DVD configuration menu. I don't have any remotes compatible with the DVL-909, so i'm currently limited to the face buttons for playback. Really wanted a shuttle tho. :(

When i pause on a CLV disc, a single frame jitters back and fourth. I guess that's what trick play is.

EDIT: Is see "CU-DV026" which is a DVL remote with jog. Anyone know if it's compatible with 909? (black USA model)
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 21:50 
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Okay so I'm a big dummy. The S1 even does still frame via step with clv discs.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 22:02 
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Trick play is basically just freeze frame, step by step, multi-speed and so on. It was a big deal back in the early home video days and was used a lot in marketing. It just became so ubiquitous that it became inconceivable to lack something as basic as freeze frame on even the most basic VHS deck by the 90's.

I actually thought the tape heads on my betamax were dirty when I got it, until I realized that on decks this old you had to do tracking manually :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a player with BothSide and full CAV support
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 22:23 
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Of course vhs freeze frame is pretty trash.
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