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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2022, 05:55 
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Kurtis,

What about that legato link found in 703s and early 704s? Your post reminded of that...so is a 79 audio worse than an early 704? You mentioned 79 having 604 audio but thought all elites had legato(which is why high end audio/elite dealers were ticked about 703/early 704s having legato). Various reviews mentioned legato link on 703/4s.
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2022, 03:33 
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The 79 uses a lower quality DAC than the 703/704/99, you cannot improve a DAC to sound like a higher quality ones. If you are wanting videos you'll probably never notice the difference. If you have a audiophile audio system and play music then you'll detect the differences. So in reality both will probably work just fine for you.
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2022, 03:27 
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Kurtis,

I have to ask about this 95/97 audio DAC. You mentioned a Philips DAC in 97 versus multibit DAC 95. I would appreciate knowing what difference there is between the 2.

As an aside, have a Kenwood 820R. How bad/good are Kenwoods? I know they are not great....a CLD504? A 201? Where would be a Pioneer equivalent? Just curious.....kept because it was a Kenwood LD(and does have optical out).
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 00:13 
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Since the Kenwood 820R was made in 1992 time frame my best guess is that it would be based off a CLD-D701 or 501.

As for the 95/97 DAC. If you have audiophile audio reproduction for your theater, when you would listen to music you would find the multi-bit DAC's have a little warmer midrange sound where the 97 is a little thinner. I can tell by the 97 actually leaves me feeling like something is missing and I cannot listen as long. Now if you are watching movies then you won't notice the difference. This is really an Audiophile listening to high end recorded music difference only.
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 03:07 
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I was checking out pics of this Kenwood unit (assume the model is actually LVD-820R) and I have to say it definitely is not a Pioneer unit. It appears to be Japanese made so the only other possibility is Sony or Panasonic but even certain characteristics don’t match them either (back panel in particular is unique with the placement of the AV jacks and the unique Din RF mod port (I think Julian mentioned that in another post).

Anyway, totally agree with Kurtis assessment on the multi bit vs 1 bit DA converters. I always prefer to listen to PCM music (via CD or LD) with my CLD-3030 DACs’s which are 4x oversampling, 16 bit. They do have that warm sound to them and just relaxing to listen to (I also feel fatigued listening to the 1 bit DAC’s). The 95 does have 8x oversampling, 20 bit DACs’ that should sound even better.

Regardless, what DAC is inside a machine shouldn’t be a big deal. I’d still take a 97 over a 95 any day (in fact, I do own a 97 right now :thumbup:) and feed its S/PDIF out to a better outboard DAC to get that warmer sound.


Last edited by ldfan on 22 Jan 2022, 00:14, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 07:51 
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krbahr wrote:
As for the 95/97 DAC. If you have audiophile audio reproduction for your theater, when you would listen to music you would find the multi-bit DAC's have a little warmer midrange sound where the 97 is a little thinner.


The Pioneer CLD-95 using an older AD1862 (Analog Devices).

The Pioneer CLD-97 is more recent and based on a classic SAA7350 (Philips) but then Pioneer messes around with the Legato Link post-processing.

Coax/Toslink out to a newer DAC would indeed be a better option.

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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2022, 02:21 
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So I have a Denon AVR890(which is a AVR2310CI without the RS232 plug) and have everything connected to it(both Optical and analog). As well as the Elite 301 CD player. Correction..all my LDs and even a couple of my CD players are connected to a Sony SDP-EP9ES, who's digital out which is THEN connected into the 890. Is there a huge difference between the 2310/890 D/A converters or using the 704 and/or 97 onboard DACs? I also have the Denon avd2000......I assume there would be little difference in plugging the 2000 in instead of the 9ES?

The Kenwood is a real oddity.....it looks like nothing else(Sony, Panny, Pioneer) which is why I kept it. It does have auto-flip and the optical out. The video is not spectacular......maybe a 201 equivalent or worse. But having side-flip and an optical out means it was designed to be decent.....not a bare-bones model.
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2022, 03:39 
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cseahawk wrote:
Is there a huge difference between the 2310/890 D/A converters or using the 704 and/or 97 onboard DACs?


It's really subjective to be honest. Even thought 24/96 and 24/192 DACs' sound great to me, I find myself going back to my CLD-3030 DACs' for music playback (maybe it's the digital filtering I'm hearing). Best would be to connect up both and see how it sounds to you.


cseahawk wrote:
I also have the Denon avd2000......I assume there would be little difference in plugging the 2000 in instead of the 9ES?


Should be no difference as you are using both as digital switch boxes (I do the same as well). However, if you ever decide to re-activate these processors w/ their 5.1 analog outputs, the Sony would kick the Denon's butt. It just has better processing and doesn't share its DACs with other channels (six DACs' vs Denon w/ four DACs').
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2022, 21:14 
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ldfan wrote:
I’d still take a 97 over a 95 any day

If they were roughly same price, absolutely. If concern is only over picture quality though, I don't think a CLD-97 is worth double the cost of a CLD-95.
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2022, 03:42 
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LDfan and C++,

I have both of the Sony processors(the ES and the base Sony model), as well as the Denon AVD. Are you saying I should use the 5.1 connections for my AC-3 out? I have the digital out from these processors used so I can have DTS and/or PCM output to the AVR890. Should I use the 5.1 out to the AVR? Is the ES much better than the SDP800 if I use the 5.1? I've never connected the 5.1 EVER.......so I'm asking now.
Appreciate any input.....
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2022, 04:37 
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cseahawk wrote:

Are you saying I should use the 5.1 connections for my AC-3 out?


Absolutely not. If you have a more modern AV Receiver that has all the latest surround processing options, use it instead. I retired the 5.1 outputs of all my processors except my Sony E800 because I don’t have an AV Receiver for it right now and currently pumping its 5.1 output into low cost self powered PC speakers.

cseahawk wrote:
I have the digital out from these processors used so I can have DTS and/or PCM output to the AVR890.


Yup. Don’t change that.

cseahawk wrote:
Is the ES much better than the SDP800 if I use the 5.1? I've never connected the 5.1 EVER.......so I'm asking now.
Appreciate any input.....


The ES definitely sounds clearer & more defined and is more flexible in set-up over it’s cheaper sister. The EP9ES has the advantage of incorporating a variable crossover option for better speaker integration vs the E800 having a fixed one. Also, the EP9ES uses six DACs’ (one for each channel) and the E800 uses three DACs’ (so two channels shared per DAC). Regardless, I still like my E800 (even with the issues I’m still trying to resolve on it) and would use it and my EP9ES interchangeably (especially as an RF Demodulator since it makes no difference).
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2022, 10:47 
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OK.... that clears up the Sonys. Where does the AVD2000 fit in compared to the ES9 and the 800? Does it have multiple DACs and how many in regards to each channel?
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2022, 22:56 
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cseahawk wrote:
Where does the AVD2000 fit in compared to the ES9 and the 800? Does it have multiple DACs and how many in regards to each channel?


Four DACs'. This is the spec sheet for the unit.

http://www.hifishop.at/hifishop/Herstel ... vd2000.pdf

Seems they put a greater emphasis on sound quality for the front left & right channels and maybe that is why the unit has an analog L+R output for record out. I could probably use it with a tape deck and get better recordings from a CD/LD since it's getting 20 bit processing from the Denon :think: .

Another thing to note as well is that this unit does not have the variable X-Over like the EP9ES (it's stuck @ 80hz for "small" which isn't bad since that's what THX usually likes; the E800 is stuck at 120hz for "small" which works fine w/ my tiny PC speakers) but it does have a 6 channel input that is routed to its volume control (unlike the EP9ES being just a useless bypass) which is great if you wanted to use it as a preamp for an SACD or DVD Audio player :thumbup:.
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2022, 07:01 
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LDfan,

You just gave me an idea. Seems like I should bring the ADV2000 into my system.....I have the Nureality SRS VHT-200 processor. Sounds like to record my various tapes/CDs/etc to CD-R or MD, I should use the Denon to get the best possible sound out to the CD-R/MD. The 9ES is good, but the output from the 2000 will be best. Try listening to a SRS infused CD or tape in the car......pretty amazing!
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 Post subject: Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable vol
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2022, 10:08 
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cseahawk wrote:
LDfan,

Sounds like to record my various tapes/CDs/etc to CD-R or MD, I should use the Denon to get the best possible sound out to the CD-R/MD. The 9ES is good, but the output from the 2000 will be best.


I really couldn’t say for certain. The AVD-2000 should be better at producing a warmer sound vs most LD players that have the 1bit D/A converter. I would experiment first as I’m not sure the speaker settings could color the record output (manual says nothing on how the signal comes out of it except that it bypasses the volume control). Thus, if the speaker settings do affect it, you would have to force the processor to “large” front speaker, subwoofer off (maybe), and place in stereo mode before you record. In any case, I don’t really see any advantage recording from this output to an MD or CD-R since it has to perform another A/D conversion that would change the sound again. This output is best for an analog tape recorder or even VHS/Beta HiFi (now that is impressive analog recording w/ the dynamics of a CD).


cseahawk wrote:
Try listening to a SRS infused CD or tape in the car......pretty amazing!


I think I have a promo CD still lying around that was provided by the company back then. I know it’s essentially an audio expansion technology and can sound quite effective at tricking the brain in deciphering location. However, I’m more into listening to music as it was originally mixed instead of changing it. Regardless, I couldn’t do it anyway since my car has no tape deck or CD player :roll:.
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