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RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable voltage
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10195		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  cseahawk [ 06 Jan 2022, 04:12 ]
Post subject:  RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98, EU CLD-97 w/ variable voltage
Just acquired a rare find......even the UK laserdiscarchive has almost zero info about it. It's a CLD98......and as I have a 97, it's a European/Japanese 97 with variable voltage switches. It's silver and arrived from Cali packed properly. I tested it..........works flawlessly and looks like it has never been used. The pads on the tray are fresh and clean, which have never seen before unless it is new out of the box. Just shocked as never even knew there was a Japanese/European version of the 97. Just knew when I saw a couple of pictures from the seller that it was 97 clone.

Anyone ever have or had a 98? Anyone know anything about it? Going to dig out as much info as I can......there is a service manual for it(though looks like a 97 service manual with 98 on it).
Author:  admin [ 06 Jan 2022, 05:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
Great find!

Please update whatever data could be missing... or take great pics while it's out of the box :-)

:arrow: Pioneer CLD-98

Julien
Author:  signofzeta [ 06 Jan 2022, 13:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
Pictures I’m seeing look standard JDM, no black lacquer, no panels, etc. It’s a great player but it’s not Elite unless it says Elite.
Author:  cseahawk [ 06 Jan 2022, 15:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
Zeta, normally I would agree with you that it is NOT elite....except it is. I have a AC-3 modded CLD97.....I Stacked them right on top of each other. They are the SAME(apart from the side panels). The picture is the same high end picture. The features/buttons are identical. The only difference between the two is silver color and the variable voltage switches(they are actually circle selectors) on the back.

Would love to hear from Kurtis Bahr on this......
Author:  ldfan [ 06 Jan 2022, 22:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
The Elite name is really used in North America from what I recall. I think for everywhere else, Pioneer simply put a script of “Reference” in their high end products to differentiate from their base line products.

So for this CLD-98, it really is no different than a 97 and you can consider it an Elite even though it doesn’t say so.
Author:  krbahr [ 07 Jan 2022, 00:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
The CLD-97 and CLD-98 use the same service manual and adjustment steps. The 98 is just a non-North American version with the silver color on the outside and board differences to accommodate the other countries it was designed for. Just like the LD-X1 does not have Elite on it but the North America version LD-S2 does have Elite on it. I've only seen "Elite" stamped on North American high end units.
Author:  signofzeta [ 07 Jan 2022, 00:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
ldfan wrote:
The Elite name is really used in North America from what I recall. I think for everywhere else, Pioneer simply put a script of “Reference” in their high end products to differentiate from their base line products.

So for this CLD-98, it really is no different than a 97 and you can consider it an Elite even though it doesn’t say so.


The picture is as good as an Elite, that’s not in question. This is a top tier deck and I’d love to have found one so pristine. Please someone sell me one. :)

However there is a same-quality JDM version of every Elite deck and in no way does Elite guarantee that it’s actually…elite in any way. The USDM CLD-95 isn’t half as elite as the 97 or a 99. However Elite is a very specific list of models. It’s “a thing” and if it doesn’t say Elite then it isn’t Elite, period. This deck is way better than several Elite models but that doesn’t make it Elite it just makes it…elite, see what I mean?

The goal of Elite was mostly performance but if it looks like cheap Japanese trash compared to your audiophile stuff, your $10,000 McIntosh amps and power recliners and velour screen curtains and 100 year scotch whisky, then it would embarrass Spielberg, Tom Cruise, Al Roker, etc when company came over.

Audiophilia/videophilea is not always logical but it is often excessive. It’s not always just what can be seen in the output signal. There was never any performance justification for these $2500 decks. It was about 1/3 real and about 2/3 varnish and gold plating and frankly I love that stuff.
Author:  harlock [ 07 Jan 2022, 01:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
I have a CLD-98 as well. It came in the original box that had old stickers indicating it had been in the Middle East at one point, so these really are "international" models, ha. You are the only other poster with one so they really are that rare.

As far as fancy boxes making the deal for audio/video philes, Pioneer can't compete with the esoteric players like those Enlightened Audio Designs (EAD) models or the Faroudja which were literally a massive metal audiophile "sarcophagus" with another whole player entombed within (that added thousands to list price) with the minimal 'phile tweak board with stuff like an exotic ST-Glass audio jack (no other audio/vid tweaks, idk if Faroudja put their video chip in at least). That Faroudja would be awesome just so I can put my $15000 or so new Faroudja LD-100 doubler on top for an ultimate 90s baller videophile rig, yeah :thumbup: .
Author:  ldfan [ 07 Jan 2022, 03:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
signofzeta wrote:

However there is a same-quality JDM version of every Elite deck and in no way does Elite guarantee that it’s actually…elite in any way.


Well said. I always rolled my eyes when Pioneer made the Elite CLD-31 (CLD-1090 clone) and Elite CLD-52 (CLD-D501 clone) which are just mid level players w/ a slightly different jack set-up, gold plated output jacks, and some minor tweaks on the specs.
Author:  cplusplus [ 07 Jan 2022, 07:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
ldfan wrote:
I always rolled my eyes when Pioneer made the Elite CLD-31 (CLD-1090 clone)

This was the first thing that came to my mind. "Pioneer Elite" is kind of thrown around the same way "Pioneer Industrial" is.

The CLD-98 makes more sense if you think of it as an export CLD-959 instead of multi-voltage CLD-97. On the exterior, they look identical except for the voltage selectors. Either way, looks are very deceiving. A DVL-91 looks significantly better than a DVL-909, but the only difference is two resistors that cost pennies (MSRP differed between these two by $500+)

signofzeta wrote:
The USDM CLD-95 isn’t half as elite as the 97 or a 99.

In my opinion, the CLD-95 is more Elite than CLD-99. It has more upgrades over its base model. The weighted bottom, audio section, and upgraded spindle are often overlooked.

If I only consider internals out of the models marked Elite, what I personally deem Elite comes down to six models:
Ultra Elites: the CLD-97, LD-S2 (these were not upgraded lower-cost models)
Elites: CLD-91, CLD-92, CLD-95, CLD-99 (at least one or more significant upgrades)
Author:  signofzeta [ 07 Jan 2022, 15:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
The 95 is better mechanically, and feels way more Elite because of that but…the output on the 99 is way more elite.

I have an Elite DVD player. I don’t know what the model number is. It’s very very good, audio is fantastic. It’s elite but absolutely not Elite in any way. It’s the flimsiest piece of gear I regularly use.

My friend had a car stereo that was sold both as Elite and non-Elite in the US market. The only difference at all that we could find was the warrantee. That’s not very Elite or elite. It was a nice unit though.
Author:  cseahawk [ 07 Jan 2022, 16:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
C++,

I have the 97 and 98 on top of each other. Apart the side panels/color, there is no difference. Picture, sound, weight, back layout are identical.

Ah OK.... just checked the UK laserdisc site. The 959 IS the non-North American 97. The brochure on their site is even in Japanese! So I guess there are 3!! 97s.... the "actual" elite CLD97, CLD98, and the CLD 959. The innards are identical except for variable voltage dials and a silver and/or goldish color.

Can honestly say didn't know anything about the 959 til just now... was aware of it but never read about it and/or seen a picture. Kurtis, have you ever worked on one?

Good discussion going on it,.. I'm learning things.
Author:  laserfanhld-gb [ 07 Jan 2022, 16:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
Can I also chuck in the CLD-939, which looks virtually if not identical to the above mentioned units - I realise its JPDM product but where does this one fit in?
Author:  cseahawk [ 07 Jan 2022, 17:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
Laserfan,

Good call! Do we have 4!?!? 97s then? I have a 97 AND a 98... so was able to A/B compare the two. There was NO difference picture-wise...which is the reason all of us on here are buying crazy-expensive players in the first place.

When my worst player is a 604 and 605, and I have a 703, 704, 97, 98, Panny 900 and 1000, and a Runco LJRII... I'm not buying these 'cause they suck. I buy for best picture on laserdisc players.
Author:  krbahr [ 12 Jan 2022, 03:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
My opinion is that the CLD-97 was the last real Elite design for the US market, meaning; the CLD-59 is a CLD-D604 that added a soft/normal/sharp picture selection; The CLD-79 has the same picture quality as the CLD-D704 but has the cheaper audio section found in the CLD-D604; The CLD-99 has the same picture quality as the CLD-D704 and the same audio circuit found in the 704, the 99 does have the 3D Adaptive filter but it is an old first generation and most TV's do a better job if you get a decent TV. The DVL-90 is a DVL-700 and the DVL-91 is a DVL-919 with option differences though the 91 did seem to re-equalize the S-Video output to make it sharper.

The LD-S1, LD-S2, CLD-95, CLD-97 all have unique power board layouts, unique video and audio board layouts, and the LD-S2 has shielding between all the boards. You cannot compare these Elite models to the non-Elite units made at the time. The McIntosh MLD-7020 changed the CLD-97 to a McIntosh case and front design and most had the precision laserdisc AC-3 RF board added for the AC-3 output, all the power, video, and audio boards are unmodified CLD-97 boards.

This is why I always suggest if you like the picture of the newer models just buy a CLD-D704, I think it is the best bang for the buck. If you prefer the smoother background and not quite as sharp then I prefer the S2 or 97, the 95 is a good choice if you use the composite signal output. The magazine "The Perfect Vision" did a test of high end players when the CLD-95 was current production and they found a chroma verses luminance timing issues and Pioneer quickly responded with the CLD-97 fixing that, but the 95 used a multibit DAC where the 97 moved to the Philips bitstream DAC but that is another discussion. The S1 is also a good unit.

Again, this is some history and preferences are just my opinion, others feel differently, get the unit you like and just enjoy it, there is no perfect player.
Author:  cseahawk [ 12 Jan 2022, 22:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
So Kurtis and whomever,

SO......Are there 4 97s? The Elite 97, the 98, the European 959, and the Japanese/Asian 939? Nobody answered that question. Which of those 4 have you worked on Kurtis? Love to hear your experiences.
Author:  cplusplus [ 13 Jan 2022, 00:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
krbahr wrote:
The LD-S1, LD-S2, CLD-95, CLD-97 all have unique power board layouts, unique video and audio board layouts

CLD-91/92 as well. LD-S1 is fantastic, but I limited my post to literal "Elite" marked players.

cseahawk wrote:
SO......Are there 4 97s? The Elite 97, the 98, the European 959, and the Japanese/Asian 939?

I don't think CLD-939 is like the others. If someone that can read Japanese could take a look at this, it might provide some insight: https://blog.goo.ne.jp/moba_goo7/e/4f84 ... 53501113f9
Author:  krbahr [ 13 Jan 2022, 00:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
The CLD-959 is like the 97, the CLD-939 is a CLD-95

The CLD-91/92 is just like the CLD-3070
Author:  cplusplus [ 13 Jan 2022, 02:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
krbahr wrote:
The CLD-91/92 is just like the CLD-3070

At a minimum it has a different audio section and a different transformer with a 4th output where AC is sent directly to the audio board and rectified there. CLD-3070 has a single LC7881, but CLD-91/92 uses two AD1860N. Video wise, I know the CLD-91/92 uses a digital TBC + new Y/C processing (with the CLD-92 taking these even further). On a smaller note, they ditched the RF modulator so the back looks much cleaner. They wrote a new service manual and service guide for the CLD-91.
Author:  krbahr [ 13 Jan 2022, 05:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: RARE find-Pioneer Elite CLD98(European cld97 w/variable
cplusplus wrote:
krbahr wrote:
The CLD-91/92 is just like the CLD-3070

At a minimum it has a different audio section and a different transformer with a 4th output where AC is sent directly to the audio board and rectified there. CLD-3070 has a single LC7881, but CLD-91/92 uses two AD1860N. Video wise, I know the CLD-91/92 uses a digital TBC + new Y/C processing (with the CLD-92 taking these even further). On a smaller note, they ditched the RF modulator so the back looks much cleaner. They wrote a new service manual and service guide for the CLD-91.


Yes, I stand corrected, The RF video output is missing so the 91/92 are an improvement over the 3070.
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