LaserDisc Database :: View topic - Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Player

disclord wrote:

I have a professional power conditioner that uses "virtual battery" technology to feed power to the outlets, completely decoupling anything connected to it from the AC wall outlet and any noise present in the power line. I've never used it until today, so I decided to see if it would make any differemce and I hooked my Panasonic LX-900 to it and have been totally amazed at the lowered luminance noise - while the actual effect is different, the resulting drop in visual noise is like going from no noise reduction to the Mode 2 setting of the 900's Digital Field Noise Reduction. I can't believe that the power source could make such a difference. Chroma noise is likewise reduced slightly but it made absolutely no difference in picture sharpness.

Since the power conditioner has 3 outlets on it I've also plugged my Pioneer LD-1100 top-loading LD player and Denon AVR-3808 receiver to it. The 1100 showed an improvement too, although not as great - I assume because the improvement in noise on the 900 was reduced high frequency luma and chroma noise and the 1100 only has a 4.2MHz bandwidth, so there's no high frequency noise to reduce.

I was given the power conditioner and it cost over $400 but I wish I had more so all my equipment could be run from one - the improvement is that visible and dramatic.

Really? I've been curious about power conditioners for a while, but I've never given them a shot because I read a lot of conflicting opinions. What was the power conditioner and do you leave in an old house?

naiaru wrote:

disclord wrote:

It's a Powervar that used to power the backup sound system at the theater I used to work at - they got a new sound system and gave me this power unit. And yes, my house was built in the 1920's but completely rewired before we moved in.

I contacted the seller via email. We are not really close friends but I bought laserdiscs, CD V discs, D-vhs tapes from him in the past. He was the marketing director of Philips back in LD days. He also has some other philips gear(some were sold under Marantz name in the US when Philips owned Marantz). I will get back to you as soon as I hear anything.

How large and what type of TV do most of you have?

Many thanks to all again. Bob

Kurtis,
Can you mod our CLD-97 to output not-seperated composite signal right after TBC like glimmie from avsforum did?
I assume it would lose trickplay on clv but ultimately defeat DNR and y/c seperation in the machine.

Kurtis,
It is a DVL-90. Do you have a CDV-488 for sale by any chance? Bob

Yes i understand the signal would be digitized but wouldnt it bypass the 2d comb filter if you tap into to right after tbc?
Isnt it a/d->tbc->y/c->dnr->y+c->d/a->composite out?

Kurtis,
I am interested in the Panasonic unit because of the DAC chips which I still think are great today. Could you give me an idea of cost? With the Pioneer DVL 90 would there be an advantage to going to the 95 if I use an outboard dac?

I see you are from Northern Virginia. I grew up in Va. Beach and mother has lived around DC for many years. I used to work in Bethesda and know the area quite well. Bob

Author:	disclord [ 03 Jul 2012, 00:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
naiaru wrote: disclord wrote: I have a professional power conditioner that uses "virtual battery" technology to feed power to the outlets, completely decoupling anything connected to it from the AC wall outlet and any noise present in the power line. I've never used it until today, so I decided to see if it would make any differemce and I hooked my Panasonic LX-900 to it and have been totally amazed at the lowered luminance noise - while the actual effect is different, the resulting drop in visual noise is like going from no noise reduction to the Mode 2 setting of the 900's Digital Field Noise Reduction. I can't believe that the power source could make such a difference. Chroma noise is likewise reduced slightly but it made absolutely no difference in picture sharpness. Since the power conditioner has 3 outlets on it I've also plugged my Pioneer LD-1100 top-loading LD player and Denon AVR-3808 receiver to it. The 1100 showed an improvement too, although not as great - I assume because the improvement in noise on the 900 was reduced high frequency luma and chroma noise and the 1100 only has a 4.2MHz bandwidth, so there's no high frequency noise to reduce. I was given the power conditioner and it cost over $400 but I wish I had more so all my equipment could be run from one - the improvement is that visible and dramatic. Really? I've been curious about power conditioners for a while, but I've never given them a shot because I read a lot of conflicting opinions. What was the power conditioner and do you leave in an old house? It's a Powervar that used to power the backup sound system at the theater I used to work at - they got a new sound system and gave me this power unit. And yes, my house was built in the 1920's but completely rewired before we moved in.

Author:	rein-o [ 03 Jul 2012, 00:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
also i ment to say less digital parts.

Author:	naiaru [ 03 Jul 2012, 00:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
disclord wrote: naiaru wrote: disclord wrote: I have a professional power conditioner that uses "virtual battery" technology to feed power to the outlets, completely decoupling anything connected to it from the AC wall outlet and any noise present in the power line. I've never used it until today, so I decided to see if it would make any differemce and I hooked my Panasonic LX-900 to it and have been totally amazed at the lowered luminance noise - while the actual effect is different, the resulting drop in visual noise is like going from no noise reduction to the Mode 2 setting of the 900's Digital Field Noise Reduction. I can't believe that the power source could make such a difference. Chroma noise is likewise reduced slightly but it made absolutely no difference in picture sharpness. Since the power conditioner has 3 outlets on it I've also plugged my Pioneer LD-1100 top-loading LD player and Denon AVR-3808 receiver to it. The 1100 showed an improvement too, although not as great - I assume because the improvement in noise on the 900 was reduced high frequency luma and chroma noise and the 1100 only has a 4.2MHz bandwidth, so there's no high frequency noise to reduce. I was given the power conditioner and it cost over $400 but I wish I had more so all my equipment could be run from one - the improvement is that visible and dramatic. Really? I've been curious about power conditioners for a while, but I've never given them a shot because I read a lot of conflicting opinions. What was the power conditioner and do you leave in an old house? It's a Powervar that used to power the backup sound system at the theater I used to work at - they got a new sound system and gave me this power unit. And yes, my house was built in the 1920's but completely rewired before we moved in. What model is it? I'm seeing these white boxy things on eBay, does that sound like yours?

Author:	disclord [ 03 Jul 2012, 01:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
It just has a 2.5 on the front and below that says "virtual battery AC decoupling" - I have it in a shelf now so I can't get to the back to read any model numbers. It has a power light, a virtual battery light and a light that goes out when the unit is properly grounded. It's probably 7 years old. Looking at their website I don't see any that look exactly like it - some of the smaller computer UPS ones look similar. It's just a white rectangular box with lights on the front and 3 power outlets on the back. It's about 7 inches deep. I'm watching the Pet Shop Boys Videography LaserDisc and I really am stunned at the improved picture quality I'm getting. Who knew the power could make such a difference?

Author:	Guest [ 09 Jul 2012, 12:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
Thanks to everyone for their great feedback. Substance, I would definitely be interested in the Phillips player that you mentioned a few days ago. I am quite familiar with the sound of those chips and they are quite organic sounding to my ears. Please tell your friend that I would buy his machine. I am in Chicago. Krbahr, what does it cost to modify the Phillips player? I assume it must be a quite simple mod if you are just changing the Caps to a better grade. Also, I just bought 48 opera laserdiscs for $50 dollars. I am buying these because my wife is singer who is about to start an opera career and this is a good way for both of us to learn the operas. I dislike just listening to them on CD's because I have no idea what is going on. With the subtitles at least you can follow the action. There is someone else locally who is offering 98 opera Laserdiscs for 135 dollars so I think I will have opera Laserdiscs than I will ever watch! I just bought yesterday locally a Pioneer Elite CLD 90 for peanuts to get going. I will look for the better machines as I go along. I just opened the box of Laserdiscs and was stunned how cool these things are! I tried both the analog and digital tracks on couldn't hear much of a difference except for lower volume levels on the analog tracks. I was using the analog outputs into my preamp. The sound was pretty good and better than most DVD's that I have heard. I am interested in trying an external Dac and also trying the the Phillips machine. Still hard for me to believe that you can buy this software for so little. I was checking my local Craigslist for the Pioneer 97 and there is one unused that the guy is asking $3200!! The next best option was the Pioneer CLD 90 for $140 with the seller delivering it to my door! You already know which route I chose. My wife and I watched a portion of our first laserdisc and it was so much fun. We both realized that our little 32 inch flatscreen will not cut it! It was almost funny watching the little picture with the big sound on my big audio system. It was still great but I guess a larger TV is the next purchase. How large and what type of TV do most of you have? Many thanks to all again. Bob

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Author:	substance [ 09 Jul 2012, 16:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
I contacted the seller via email. We are not really close friends but I bought laserdiscs, CD V discs, D-vhs tapes from him in the past. He was the marketing director of Philips back in LD days. He also has some other philips gear(some were sold under Marantz name in the US when Philips owned Marantz). I will get back to you as soon as I hear anything.

Author:	substance [ 09 Jul 2012, 16:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
I got the reply for the email .I am afraid he has already sold the player. Check ebay dv-488 shows up time to time. Dont buy any other philips player as they dont have the same dac in them.

Author:	disclord [ 09 Jul 2012, 17:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
substance wrote: I contacted the seller via email. We are not really close friends but I bought laserdiscs, CD V discs, D-vhs tapes from him in the past. He was the marketing director of Philips back in LD days. He also has some other philips gear(some were sold under Marantz name in the US when Philips owned Marantz). I will get back to you as soon as I hear anything. Was it David Birch-Jones?

Author:	substance [ 09 Jul 2012, 17:21 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
no I might be wrong on the title. I have his card, I have to look

Author:	naiaru [ 09 Jul 2012, 22:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
baranyi wrote: How large and what type of TV do most of you have? Many thanks to all again. Bob Personally, I have a Panasonic VIERA TC-L42U30, but I sit only 6' from it.

Author:	Guest [ 09 Jul 2012, 23:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
Substance, Many thanks for checking on my behalf. I was getting a bit excited about it but think that one will show up sooner or later. Bob

Author:	krbahr [ 10 Jul 2012, 00:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
For the CDV-488 I changed the bridge diodes to GI851's to lower the sound floor. Then I added a variable resistor setup to the D/A output to remove the DC offset that comes out of the 1451 D/A chip. This then allowed for the removal of the output de-coupling capacitors. I did not remove the muting circuits which some say to do. The CDV-488 takes work to adjust, not easy, to get it at peak video performance and it is single sided. Are you sure about the CLD-90 model number, you had DVL-90 in your other thread?

Author:	substance [ 10 Jul 2012, 04:10 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
Kurtis, Can you mod our CLD-97 to output not-seperated composite signal right after TBC like glimmie from avsforum did? I assume it would lose trickplay on clv but ultimately defeat DNR and y/c seperation in the machine.

Author:	Guest [ 10 Jul 2012, 13:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
Kurtis, It is a DVL-90. Do you have a CDV-488 for sale by any chance? Bob

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Author:	krbahr [ 11 Jul 2012, 02:16 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
substance wrote: Kurtis, Can you mod our CLD-97 to output not-seperated composite signal right after TBC like glimmie from avsforum did? I assume it would lose trickplay on clv but ultimately defeat DNR and y/c seperation in the machine. The CLD-97 actually has three outputs from the D/A chip, chroma/lumance/composite. It is not an analog mix like the CLD-99 and most of the other machines. So I'm wondering how what glimmie did for the 97 would be different from just turning the DNR "OFF" as the TBC is digital so getting the video after the TBC you get a signal that was digitized at one point? Glimmie may have tapped off the non-TBC signal before the A/D chip and people have talked about that. That way you do loose all special features the digital memory provides. You do realize that the LD-S2 and HLD-X0 which are considered the best/cleanest/most analog looking machines both digitize the picture?

Author:	krbahr [ 11 Jul 2012, 02:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
baranyi wrote: Kurtis, It is a DVL-90. Do you have a CDV-488 for sale by any chance? Bob I do have one I have not tested. Would be some time before I could get to it. The reason I don't normally do this is the time it takes and the cost to get these going plus the modification time. It would be an expensive player. Would be cheaper to go for the CLD-95 on eBay if you want a multi-bit player.

Author:	substance [ 11 Jul 2012, 13:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
Yes i understand the signal would be digitized but wouldnt it bypass the 2d comb filter if you tap into to right after tbc? Isnt it a/d->tbc->y/c->dnr->y+c->d/a->composite out?

Author:	Guest [ 11 Jul 2012, 15:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
Kurtis, I am interested in the Panasonic unit because of the DAC chips which I still think are great today. Could you give me an idea of cost? With the Pioneer DVL 90 would there be an advantage to going to the 95 if I use an outboard dac? I see you are from Northern Virginia. I grew up in Va. Beach and mother has lived around DC for many years. I used to work in Bethesda and know the area quite well. Bob

Author:	krbahr [ 12 Jul 2012, 04:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
substance wrote: Yes i understand the signal would be digitized but wouldnt it bypass the 2d comb filter if you tap into to right after tbc? Isnt it a/d->tbc->y/c->dnr->y+c->d/a->composite out? Yes, you would have to take the digital signal out of the TBC chip you do bypass the DNR section but you then have to design a D/A circuit and install it in the player and hopefully the design is better than the original. The difference is that the 97 does the y+c in digital verses a simple analog mix in the other players. If you turn OFF dnr I don't see much gain. I never saw the article about doing this mod so I do not know what they claimed to accomplish when this player is already lower noise level thanmost other players.

Author:	krbahr [ 12 Jul 2012, 04:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie interested in the best sonics with first LD Playe
baranyi wrote: Kurtis, I am interested in the Panasonic unit because of the DAC chips which I still think are great today. Could you give me an idea of cost? With the Pioneer DVL 90 would there be an advantage to going to the 95 if I use an outboard dac? I see you are from Northern Virginia. I grew up in Va. Beach and mother has lived around DC for many years. I used to work in Bethesda and know the area quite well. Bob Gather you meant Philips not Panasonic. If you are using an outboard DAC then you can use any of the players. If that is what ou have then you don't need the Philips unit.