It is currently 17 Apr 2024, 00:51




 Page 2 of 5 [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 03:58 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 01:43
Posts: 549
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 56 times
No, he is right.
I have a player doing static shock on my system. (LD-V4300D) When I power on the player, my other devices cuts during 0.1 second.
I found now how to avoid this shock with the player (by disconnecting it from the earth and not letting other devices connected to the same plug),
But when my HLD-X0 died, it was connected to the same plug, and get shocked by the static.
My others players/device didn't have any problem after static shocks.
Thanks to powerofld, I could confirm the reason why my HLD-X0 died.
And I know now that I will never buy it again in my life if it is that sensible to static shock.
_________________
LD-V4300D (PAL/NTSC)
CLD-959 (NTSC)
CXUHD (DVD/BD/UHD/SACD)
Lumagen 2144 (scaler)
Collection
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 04:16 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 5978
Location: Ann Arbor
Has thanked: 1280 times
Been thanked: 1099 times
You’d think something with mutiple power supplies and all sorts of beefy redundancy would be more resilient. You’d think there’d be 100M MOhms of impedance on the ground side of the chassis but I guess not.
_________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 05:20 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2015, 15:40
Posts: 825
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 95 times
I'd assumed the comment with regards to static was if you have the machine open and servicing it, ie: the static electricity is applied directly to those components when touching/handling them or the circuits they are a part of.

Otherwise there'd probably be no working X0's left.
_________________
Looking for Hi-Vision Discs (MUSE or HDVS).......
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 05:32 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 01:43
Posts: 549
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 56 times
Don't know... mine died suddenly for no other reason I think...
But as I am not an expert in electronic, I certainly cannot discover the real reason why my player laser died last year....
_________________
LD-V4300D (PAL/NTSC)
CLD-959 (NTSC)
CXUHD (DVD/BD/UHD/SACD)
Lumagen 2144 (scaler)
Collection
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 10:08 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 5978
Location: Ann Arbor
Has thanked: 1280 times
Been thanked: 1099 times
I've seen sparks from interconnects before. Me basically grounding the 40kV my socks and myself generated while shuffling around rebuilding the stereo system through an amp as I'm plugging or unplugging. I've never blown anything up this way though.
_________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 12:53 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3573
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 317 times
Ok basics... physics 2.....electromagnetism,

If all sides of a box is made of highly conductive materials (i.e. copper, aluminum)it’s magnetic field inside is always zero therefore called a faradays cage.
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 18:44 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2018, 19:58
Posts: 90
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 18 times
I heard that X 0 is very weak against static electricity

That is a professional story of maintenance

For example,
1. It is dangerous if the disc is static-charged

2. Shaggy carpets with long hairy feet etc.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 19:08 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 5978
Location: Ann Arbor
Has thanked: 1280 times
Been thanked: 1099 times
substance wrote:
Ok basics... physics 2.....electromagnetism,

If all sides of a box is made of highly conductive materials (i.e. copper, aluminum)it’s magnetic field inside is always zero therefore called a faradays cage.


Could you extend the basics for me? I understand what you are saying here I just can’t seem to make the connection to why static does or doesn’t fry the laser IC.
_________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 19:44 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3573
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 317 times
signofzeta wrote:
substance wrote:
Ok basics... physics 2.....electromagnetism,

If all sides of a box is made of highly conductive materials (i.e. copper, aluminum)it’s magnetic field inside is always zero therefore called a faradays cage.


Could you extend the basics for me? I understand what you are saying here I just can’t seem to make the connection to why static does or doesn’t fry the laser IC.



X0 is a one big metal box aka a Faraday’s cage. Outside static energy, electrical interference, radio wave can not penetrate it. Unless a lightning strikes it, static is not your concern. It would be the heat of the lightning that damages it, not its static. The same logic airplanes can fly in clouds. An airplane is a giant Faraday’s cage.
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 16:05 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2018, 19:58
Posts: 90
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 18 times
Characteristic comparison with LD-X1 (NTSC)

Above: Monoscope
Center circle → diagonal resolution X0 victory
The horizontal resolution is also good X 0

Middle: Multiburst
X1 emphasizes about 10% white peak
X 0 is just 100%

Bottom: Color bar
The bright spot of X1 is slightly larger
That is because the jitter amount difference

It scans part of the magazine at the time

-----------------------------------------------------
Player
Pioneer LD-1000(1981)
Pioneer LD-S1(1986)
Pioneer HLD-X0(1995)

TBC
FOR.A FA-395
(Time base collector/
Frame Synchronizer)

Scaler
IDK VSC-02A
DVDO iSCAN DUO

Display
Panasonic TH-32LX75S(LCD)


Attachments:
download - コピー.jpg
download - コピー.jpg [ 142.73 KiB | Viewed 3865 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 18:31 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 555
Location: United States
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 76 times
I wish I knew what you are talking about, it seems interesting...
_________________
Sony HIL-C2EX w/ AC3
Sony HIL-C1 w/ AC3
Sony MDP-999
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 19:00 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3573
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 317 times
pbiancardi wrote:
I wish I knew what you are talking about, it seems interesting...


I wish I understood as well
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 20:53 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 8104
Location: Dullaware
Has thanked: 1219 times
Been thanked: 843 times
substance wrote:
pbiancardi wrote:
I wish I knew what you are talking about, it seems interesting...


I wish I understood as well

Pretty funny how you both own these players, I know Peter owns a scope and yet can't see or understand what he is posting from the magazine pic.

Showing how the frequency is on settings from your scope.

Kurtis had a video on youtube showing some of these as well, ask him, you are in contact with him, he can explain more clearly.

This is the "magic" that makes one spend the extra money on an X0
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 21:16 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2013, 15:56
Posts: 123
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Very interesting. I assume this is from a Japanese home theater magazine from a time when they tested players against each other?

1st image shows a resolution test - X0 is far better than the X1 if you look at the rings around the number 30

2nd image is from a waveform display of a multi burst signal. It looks like it shows the X0 peak white output level at 100% (0.7v) and the X1 at about 110%. This would mean you'd see all the video information available from the X0 but the X1 would probably clip on your display (at the time crt) and you would lose detail in bright areas of the image, similar to cranking in too much contrast on your tv

3rd image is of a vectorscope displaying colour bars from the players. Can't quite make out the differences here as resolution is too low

Please correct me if I'm wrong

If you have any other scans of other tests/players it would be great to see them


powerofld wrote:
Characteristic comparison with LD-X1 (NTSC)

Above: Monoscope
Center circle → diagonal resolution X0 victory
The horizontal resolution is also good X 0

Middle: Multiburst
X1 emphasizes about 10% white peak
X 0 is just 100%

Bottom: Color bar
The bright spot of X1 is slightly larger
That is because the jitter amount difference

It scans part of the magazine at the time

-----------------------------------------------------
Player
Pioneer LD-1000(1981)
Pioneer LD-S1(1986)
Pioneer HLD-X0(1995)

TBC
FOR.A FA-395
(Time base collector/
Frame Synchronizer)

Scaler
IDK VSC-02A
DVDO iSCAN DUO

Display
Panasonic TH-32LX75S(LCD)
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 21:54 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2018, 19:58
Posts: 90
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 18 times
kencol wrote:
Very interesting. I assume this is from a Japanese home theater magazine from a time when they tested players against each other?

1st image shows a resolution test - X0 is far better than the X1 if you look at the rings around the number 30

2nd image is from a waveform display of a multi burst signal. It looks like it shows the X0 peak white output level at 100% (0.7v) and the X1 at about 110%. This would mean you'd see all the video information available from the X0 but the X1 would probably clip on your display (at the time crt) and you would lose detail in bright areas of the image, similar to cranking in too much contrast on your tv

3rd image is of a vectorscope displaying colour bars from the players. Can't quite make out the differences here as resolution is too low

Please correct me if I'm wrong

--------------------------------------------------------
Hello kencol

Yes! That's right

It was sold in January 1995
HiVi is a Japanese audio magazine

No. 1, No. 2 → That's right.

Number 3 is written like this

The size of each bright spot of X 0 is smaller
Small luminescent point → Jitter control is excellent



powerofld wrote:
Characteristic comparison with LD-X1 (NTSC)

Above: Monoscope
Center circle → diagonal resolution X0 victory
The horizontal resolution is also good X 0

Middle: Multiburst
X1 emphasizes about 10% white peak
X 0 is just 100%

Bottom: Color bar
The bright spot of X1 is slightly larger
That is because the jitter amount difference

It scans part of the magazine at the time

-----------------------------------------------------
Player
Pioneer LD-1000(1981)
Pioneer LD-S1(1986)
Pioneer HLD-X0(1995)

TBC
FOR.A FA-395
(Time base collector/
Frame Synchronizer)

Scaler
IDK VSC-02A
DVDO iSCAN DUO

Display
Panasonic TH-32LX75S(LCD)
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 22:02 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2013, 15:56
Posts: 123
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 5 times
powerofld thanks for posting. Do you have a scan of the full review you can post or upload? Don't worry about translation.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 23:24 
Absolute fan
Absolute fan
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 18:02
Posts: 1614
Location: United States
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 88 times
Any idea what the source disk is for that test?

I think the X0 is the only player that got everything 'right' from a signal processing POV - I'm not sure about the static/power sensitivity thing, but it's sad that when it does break, it's generally impossible to repair. :(
_________________
Happycube Labs: Where the past is being re-made, today. [meep!]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2018, 01:41 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 555
Location: United States
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 76 times
rein-o wrote:
substance wrote:
pbiancardi wrote:
I wish I knew what you are talking about, it seems interesting...


I wish I understood as well

Pretty funny how you both own these players, I know Peter owns a scope and yet can't see or understand what he is posting from the magazine pic.

Showing how the frequency is on settings from your scope.

Kurtis had a video on youtube showing some of these as well, ask him, you are in contact with him, he can explain more clearly.

This is the "magic" that makes one spend the extra money on an X0


I got rid of X0, too afraid of it breaking and me not being able to fix. I do have a scope (actually the wrong kind apparently which I just learned) but am a long way from being proficient with it. And I am still not following, we went from X0 spontaneously dying from static electricity to being a great player again lol....
_________________
Sony HIL-C2EX w/ AC3
Sony HIL-C1 w/ AC3
Sony MDP-999
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2018, 03:24 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 8104
Location: Dullaware
Has thanked: 1219 times
Been thanked: 843 times
Welcome to the forum
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HLD-X0 Review
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2018, 04:23 
Hardcore fan
Hardcore fan
User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007, 03:12
Posts: 1520
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 337 times
The X1 should not be taking the dip in the multiburst second frequency 1.25KHz, curious what test disc they were using as the Pioneer test discs are normally 70% modulation and ALL the peaks including the initial DC peak level should be equal and the valleys of each frequency should be the same. The output you have is showing the players capability to reproduce the signal. The X0 multiburst you have is as good as I've seen it, to me there is something going on with the X1 as the only time I've seen that type response is when you boost the equalization it sharpen the picture a little.

Just looking at all three picture for each player they say the X0 is a clear winner. But where was DNR at?

As for the third color bar on a vectorscope, I agree that a smaller dot does mean less jitter but again unless they turned OFF the DNR the X0 sets DNR at midpoint for both chroma and luminance where the US version of the X1 which is the LD-S2 has luminance OFF and chroma ON but it is older DNR software that only allows ON and OFF.

What I can tell you is that the S2 and the X0 are the only Pioneer players that have low enough noise levels that DNR can be used with them and it does not make the picture look digital. I've had then side by side playing with them on my Pioneer plasma TV. I really wish I would have tried them on an analog TV, big mistake I made there. You cannot go wrong with a properly working S2 or X0.
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 2 of 5 [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron