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 Post subject: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 18:57 
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On the models of high-end LD Players with extremely good 3D Comb Filters, do they also have better 2D Comb filters?
I've noticed on some movies the checkerboard pattern on scene changes and mild chroma bleeding (i think?) which is eliminated with the 3D Comb filter set to off. So I'm curious to know if you have this off are the higher-end Japanese Units still able to outperform the american ones with just 2D Comb filter alone.

Thanks
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 19:24 
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Sorry,

I can't directly answer your question; though I can say from experience the 3D Mitsubishi filter in the S9/X9 is rubbish and will leave you with awful checker-boarding on various kinds of motion. The 3D NEC in the R7G & H9 is actually quite decent and holds up to the best you can get today.

Somewhere in there I worked out the Analogue Devices comb filter in the DVDO Duo killed them all. Then I realised the same comb filter is in the Lumagen 2144.

Never experimented or compared enough 2D only filters to help you out - though I'll pretty much put money on all the ones built into LD players being fairly basic / middle of the road.

What player/comb-filter specifically are you dealing with here?
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 19:38 
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In my most recent specific instance it is the R7G, but I've really only come to notice it on the Lion King Remastered CAV disc.
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 19:53 
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phobicpanda wrote:
In my most recent specific instance it is the R7G, but I've really only come to notice it on the Lion King Remastered CAV disc.


I don't have that particular disc to compare, but do recall various scenes from "Mars Attacks" as great torture tests for comb filters! You're testing my memory now but iirc the R7G lets you adjust the 2D/3D threshold?
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:17 
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The options are as follows: CNR, YNR, 3D Y/C, Sharpness
I get best results on Lion King with everything set to off. CNR/YNR at even somewhat low settings cause some artifacts to streak off the characters. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with what each setting does, but I'm assuming CNR and YNR are Digital Noise Reduction, 3D Y/C is obviously the 3D Comb filter which should automatically trigger the 2D one if set to off?

I have also Batman Mr. Freeze Sub-Zero, but I don't have much issues with that one with the 3D Comb filter on.
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:33 
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If you own the R7G you will need to play with the settings, I believe there are 3 memory settings for different discs or what you prefer.

You need to run the R7G through S-Video to get the best image using the filter, otherwise you won't be getting the use of the filter as the yellow video won't give you
the filter.

Again you just need to play around with it and get the best setting for you.
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:47 
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The CLD-99 has the same settings. I run chroma DNR to max, luma DNR in the middle, sharpness to 0. Image is amazing. The 99 and R7G have a lot in common.

The other slider controls when the filter switches from 2D to 3D or something like that. Bias or something. I leave it standard. There is an English description of what it does specifically in the US manual for the 99 so if you want to know exactly you’ll find it in there.
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:55 
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Quote:
If you own the R7G you will need to play with the settings, I believe there are 3 memory settings for different discs or what you prefer.

You need to run the R7G through S-Video to get the best image using the filter, otherwise you won't be getting the use of the filter as the yellow video won't give you
the filter.

Again you just need to play around with it and get the best setting for you.


Ya, I've been using S-Video. Even with the 3D Y/C set to off the S-Video beats the s**t out of Composite for me.
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2018, 07:26 
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phobicpanda wrote:
The options are as follows: CNR, YNR, 3D Y/C, Sharpness
I get best results on Lion King with everything set to off. CNR/YNR at even somewhat low settings cause some artifacts to streak off the characters. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with what each setting does, but I'm assuming CNR and YNR are Digital Noise Reduction, 3D Y/C is obviously the 3D Comb filter which should automatically trigger the 2D one if set to off?

I have also Batman Mr. Freeze Sub-Zero, but I don't have much issues with that one with the 3D Comb filter on.


Yes the 3D Y/C is the one that adjusts 2D vs 3D for the filter. This is a pretty good filter though not perfect (but then none is), you will find a bit of checkerboarding with certain material, and so then you could turn this down if you're sensitive to it. (Though I recall this could be a trade off with more dot-crawl at lower settings.)

Don't recall 100% the settings I used for the R7G but think the Y/C was generally on standard and then I tend to keep the YNR/luminance NR on the lower side with a bit more chroma NR.

As suggested play around and find some settings that work for you. There is a memory but it only saves the settings as long as the player is plugged into the mains so you might want to write them down too!

Just found this old post:
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?t=5552&p=68674
Knew I'd waffled on about it somewhere here in the past!
(Scroll down to my post on 12 Sept @ 16:29; and the next one just below that.)
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2018, 18:11 
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Thanks. I definitely think I'll tinker with the 3D Y/C on around 2-3 on each title going off your old post.
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 Post subject: Re: Comb Filter Question
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2018, 16:22 
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I have a relatively modern HDTV now (32" Samsung UN32J5500), and the comb filter is awesome on this set. I just feed the composite into it, and I get zero rainbows on the Snell & Wilcox 2 test screen from the Video Essentials LD.

Gone are the days having to feed the composite into a Faroudja, Crystalio, or Onkyo video processor.

Modern HDTVs rule for LD playback!
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