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 Post subject: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 26 May 2014, 15:55 
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I may have a chance to get a Pioneer LV-4300D, as shown here

http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laser ... -4300D.htm

One thing I don't understand - why does it have RGB outputs? My understanding was that the signal from a laserdisc is always composite, so presumably the player is decoding the signal and assigning it to the RGB channels in some way. Is it simply for compatibility with some types of display? If so, would there be any advantage in using these outputs rather than the composite signal on a display that supports both?

I don't yet know what other outputs it has, since it was sold in Europe I'm guessing SCART and composite, stereo sound, possibly digital sound outputs. I'll post more once I know.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 26 May 2014, 17:36 
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It's probably just a pretty primitive comb filter.

IIRC the 4300D uses a CCD TBC unlike the 4400, so while it's a sturdy player, it probably isn't the best one... if it's cheap and works, it's probably a good deal though!
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 26 May 2014, 17:44 
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If all goes well I'll be getting it for £10, about $17 - I think it's worth trying at that price! No remote, of course.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 26 May 2014, 22:02 
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Oh, definitely!
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 27 May 2014, 07:56 
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Just a shot in the dark, but I imagine since the machine was pitched as a player and interactive/multimedia machine, RGB could be beneficial at least for compatibility with certain monitor/av setups?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 27 May 2014, 10:47 
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laserdisc_lover wrote:
Just a shot in the dark, but I imagine since the machine was pitched as a player and interactive/multimedia machine, RGB could be beneficial at least for compatibility with certain monitor/av setups?

Pretty much what I was thinking - my first thought was something like a computer monitor but that doesn't quite fit with the PAL/NTSC video selection pin, so probably the outputs are intended for display panels, projectors, etc. I haven't come across a specific pin for PAL/NTSC selection before, but I'd imagine there's something out there that uses it.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 27 May 2014, 18:23 
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Just finished trying this. The good news is it's PAL and NTSC, the picture is OK though not quite as good as my CLD D925, and it has no trouble with disks that have analogue-only or digital-only sound. The bad news is that the outputs are a bit basic - composite video, analogue sound, and the weird RGB output I mentioned earlier. No SCART, though that isn't a huge problem, no digital sound, and of course no AC-3. But overall it ought to be fine as a backup player, which I may put in another room where I have a smaller TV, if I can find enough shelf space for it. And in the unlikely event I ever find an arcade game or data application that needs computer control it has the serial port, external sync ports, EFM output, and barcode reader socket.

The sad part of this is that the guy who sold it to me inherited it from his father several years ago, along with a big collection of laserdiscs. Which were stored outdoors in a garden shed, and stolen a couple of years later when someone nicked his bicycle! I'm willing to bet the thieves thought they were taking LPs, and dumped them somewhere when they found out they were weird. But I suspect the price would have been a lot higher if there had been discs, so never mind...
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 12:49 
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I managed to find a cheapish remote on ebay UK, and a company that sells a very similar lead as a SCART to RGB input for a Philips monitor is going to modify one for me free of charge, if it works correctly they may add it to the leads they sell. Won't be especially cheap, but I'm willing to give it a shot to see if it makes a difference. Together they'll cost more than twice as much as the player did, but the remote will be handy, and if the cable makes a big difference it'll be useful info for anyone else who has this player, or another with this RGB output.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2014, 19:39 
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And the bad news is that the RGB output either doesn't work or has pinouts completely different to the ones shown on this page:
http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laser ... -4300D.htm

I don't really have any way to test it, so I'm cutting my losses and sticking with composite, and hoping that the cable maker will give me some sort of refund if I return it - the pinouts are right for what I told them so it isn't their fault it doesn't work.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2014, 08:33 
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It ought to be easy enough to test the RGB outputs with an oscilloscope.

The reason that RGB interconnexion was defined in the SCART standard was due to a technical issue with SECAM. Because of the FM subcarrier, it is impossible to mix SECAM video signals as can be done with NTSC or PAL. As a result, in countries where SECAM was the standard, RGB was a convenient way to connect things if some kind of manipulation might be required. And there was, for a while, a move to make that the European standard rather than CVBS, because it would be agnostic to colour encoding method. Presumably it was expected that industrial LD players might be used in a setting where this was required.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2014, 08:48 
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Unfortunately I don't own an oscilloscope, and don't have access to one since I retired, and I'm not really sufficiently interested in getting this working to buy one. Since the composite video is pretty good it doesn't make a lot of sense to throw big money at it.

I've tried with a multimeter and I'm getting voltage on a couple of the pins, but my multimeter doesn't have sensitive AC ranges so I'm probably missing a lot.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2015, 03:15 
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Hi, I checked the forum in search of someone who also tried the RGB port on the LD-V4300D and it seems and I'm not the only one having trouble with it, unfortunately. Here, I've tried buying a special VGA cable that has 15-pin on one side and 9-pin on the other, the exact needed number to connect the player actually. But as I've tried that way on my old LCD, which has a 15-pin VGA port, the video signal wasn't recognized at all. I thought for a second it was a faulty unit, but then I tried the composite and it worked (it worked damn well!). So, I was thinking, since I found the original scanned manual of the LD-V4300D, I read that the RGB output was "0.7 Vp-p 75 Ω". Does that mean the player needs a specific cable with those specs to work, or is it a feature that is simply not working, like a defect on the whole line?

You can check the manual's PDF attached to this post ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2015, 04:14 
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Most monitors (or TVs) won't accept low res RGB on a VGA input, which is what the player is outputting.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2015, 08:52 
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Yeah, they haven't made any "VGA" ports that will sync to 15kHz in the last 15-20 years.

I too an curious about this machine. I think the publius theory makes as much sense as anything.

BTW, I guarantee the RGB image will not improve on the composite. If it does it would involve some sort of analog video converting voodoo that never again saw the light of day. Using the stuff that was available back then though, its almost certainly garbage.

Maybe it was made to drive one of those old LED billboards, the ones made from individual 5mm LEDs that were extremely low resolution. In that setting I can see the need to convert to RGB being more important than the quality of the video.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2015, 10:32 
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I remember seeing a LD-V4300D on german ebay maybe about a year ago, and the seller was raving about the RGB outputs quality, and the auction included a self-made RGB cable for it.
So some people seem to have it working! Was there never an official cable for this from Pioneer with a part number that might still be in stock somewhere?
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2015, 21:47 
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If its putting out RGB at 15khz a cheap gonbes 8200 should be able to lock onto it. I tried this with my 1450 player but that thing doesn't output rgb so no luck but it might work for you. Depends if you want to spend £20 on the gonbes just to try it.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2015, 04:56 
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It would upscan, but produce significant artifacting. Those things are not that great once things start to move.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2015, 05:48 
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to get rgb out of an LD player, you will be forced to use the internal comb filter in the LD player. This is a bad idea, especially on a V4300. The seller is obviously trying to justify his player. V4300 has a mediocre (analog) CCD and a notch filter for y/c separation. This player should be avoided. I(and many other) have listed the good players in many different threads in the past. There is no need to reinvent the wheel or rediscover Americas, all of the decent LD player have been identified and mentioned in various threads.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2015, 06:52 
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I agree, but two things:

1) it would be nice to hear a reliable first hand account of what the output looks like. It can't possibly be good but it would be interesting if it wasn't a absolutely hideous because that seems almost guaranteed.

2) if everyone searched before they posted there would be like six posts a year. Also, 100 people getting all their information from a single thread is probably not a great idea. That's how a lot of really dumb conventional wisdom procreates. Sometimes you can find totally false popular rumors that originate from a single first hand account. Think about how much confusion there is over laser rot and how it gets hugely overrated and assigned to almost any symptom. Also, consider how popular opinion changes and time goes on. A lot of technical advice given in this forum and others I go to has suddenly been supplanted when new products come out, or maybe just come to light, like the almost revolutionary discovery of the usefulness of DVD recorders or the DPS-290.

It's not like this is some Sons of Anarchy forum with 1000 posts a day anyway...
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer LV-4300D (LD-V4300D) RGB output
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2015, 01:00 
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Someone is currently making me a cable to see if it can be exploited, so I'll update you guys when I'll receive and get a chance to test it ;)
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