@sonicboom - If you're fine with a 1-sided player I think a later production 4400 that's been cleaned up+adjusted per the Domesday86 4300D calibration guide is what you're looking for. It's got the linear motor (ala V8000, S2, and X0) and it's not too hard to find. For the Domesday86 project the 4300D was the natural choice - the V4[34]00 and V8000 were the only truly industrial players Pioneer did, and there's no PAL version of the 8000.

A V888 is basically a DVL-919 with LD-G circuitry. 's not a bad player if it's aligned properly and kept in a good environment, but it's a bit more mechanically complex than it's fellow late CLD's.

3090/701/702 is a different generation from the 703/4, the spindle motor probably won't move over. And speaking of Karaoke players, I think the V840 is based off the same mechanism so that might be a good source.

The really exotic players are well built but have interesting 'gotcha's that are harder to work around - it's a double whammy because they're more complex, and harder to get parts for. MUSE player pickups are hard to find these days, but there are plenty of players to loot to keep an R7G alive.

There are three generations of m-holder (VNL16xx, VNL1700, and VNL1779) The first two look like, but the first one (used in 104/504/59/early V2800/V5000's) is really flimsy and very likely to snap in shipping, and probably makes the 1700 look worse than it is. The 1779 is much better of course, and a broken DVL gives you two of them

The CLD-91/92 has a solid copper honeycomb base. The LD-S2/X1 has a cast iron honeycomb base that adds a lot of weight and stability.

No mention of PQ here. Higher end player have higher quality parts in them therefore more likely to last longer. Someone who paid $6,500 for a player in 1999 and another $1,500 to get it installed is more likely to take good care of that player. Odds are one or two movies per week between 1999 and 2001 then sat on that rack unused. That’s why first owner and complete players with box, manuals, remote, receipt, etc.. get more attention. Same goes for any used item.

You care about mechanical parts. Less use = more likely they are in good shape. Kept in house conditions, rather than some basement or attic mean the player enjoyed staying in normal room temperatures and moist all year round. So I what I said on my previous are very valid. At the end these machines are 25+ years old, you are taking a gamble on them. You just want to make your odds a little better.

Also, I would be more worries about electronics failing than mechanics. You can somehow remedy mechanical parts but once those electronics components are gone, one, there is no one that knows how to fix old analog stuff anymore, two, these parts are so difficult to find. Again, higher end players will have higher quality resistors, dacs, capacitors and all.

Industrial players suggested here are probably well built but very likely to have s**t ton of hours on them. Doubtfully they were handled with care.

Also on the PQ, you are incorrect that post processing can make any player have good video. trash in=trash out applies here. You want at least a decent player if not the best. Especially on the noise levels, post processing can cover it but create other major issues like loss of detail which LD doesn’t really have a whole lot to begin with.

So much good info here, thanks everyone. I'm no expert. I'm just bored and looking for interesting albeit useless facts. Hopefully you're enjoying it too.

With regard to single sided players, it seems at the highest pinnacle of LD (HLD-X0) you get a single sided player anyway. So I guess the thought was that the highest (build) quality is achieved with that mechanical design. Less is more. Playing the reverse side is apparently not ideal or at minimum is more cost and more moving parts. The original LD players were also single sided. I wonder why they decided to add "auto reverse" later as opposed to right out of the gate. I'm sure it was driven by consumer's response. Seems obviously necessary for this format. I personally require both side play for movies. If all players were single sided I personally don't think I'd have stuck to this hobby. I would easily make the trade off of the quality (and price tag) of an X0 vs the real world experience of a lesser quality dual sided player for everyday use but hey that's just me. Industrial players seemed to have things in common with players like an X0 so it got me thinking.

Moving on, I hear you on the high end players. I get it. Higher price likely means better quality. I guess practically speaking though I'm not likely to run into those players at a reasonable price tomorrow and many of them don't meet my needs anyway. If I did I'd obviously get one. Outside of that, my thought is to get an industrial player simply because they tend to be cheap and I don't have one. Not to mention nostalgia, I was exposed to LD in middle school with a LD-V2000 or something. Also, the Domesday project is something I want to play with but that is so much time/money/work that it is simply on my back burner for now. Even for that, I could use any player I currently have.

As for crap in=crap out and processing you're right. I didn't mean to imply that any player will magically look amazing with processing. However, I also think you Substance (of all people) probably agree a D406 would ultimately look better though a 2144 as opposed to a D406 composite in to the same 2019 TV. What about a D406 into a 2144 vs a X0 composite in to the same 2019 TV? Subjective at best since we all see differently and there will be many variables involved. I'd like to see those comparisons though. In the end: LD will always look like LD.

I guess what I mean is that at a certain level the differences in players is not that great until you spend a lot of money (same for processors) or import a player from Japan. At that point you're spending at least what $3-500+ with shipping? Even then the difference in PQ is only marginally better. Not night and day - is it? If so is it worth a $500-2K? It depends on the person. My *assumption* is that most people these days, in the US, who find players locally are finding average US consumer players (4, 5, 6, 700 series). Once in a while you'll find the scores you speak of but not often. Those $6,500 players don't sell for less than $500 most likely. I see a lot of people who are very happy finding players for <$100 locally or paying double that or more to have an average quality player shipped to them that usually arrives broken. I certainly never paid more than that for any of my machines. Not that any of them are the TOTL but some decent models. The V888 w/remote was $60 for basically a 919 with CD/LD-G. The 704 was $125 with a bunch of movies. I will (hopefully) never spend $1000 on a LD player but also hope to find something stellar locally one day. At my price point all the players are about equal IMO. For dual sided players 704 is pretty good. 919 also not bad. Where else can I go from there really? Nowhere that makes a significant difference in build or picture quality IMO. X1/S2 is single sided and no AC3, but that can be added. 99 perhaps but why when the motor will eventually fail and I have a C2 and a 704 that I can have repaired?

Substance, you've mentioned previously that less than a handful of models have a decent comb filter compared to current technology. I believe you or perhaps another member also noted that any of the NR built into a LD player and/or most processors is outdated tech and not even relevant these days with a newer set up. So then, the million dollar question is what are you getting with a higher end player? The answer is better electronic components and mechanical built quality, right?. That heavy copper base to reduce vibrations, the better spec'd components, the better longer lasting quieter motors, better laser, etc. I'm almost afraid to see what an XO looks like on my set up. I'm afraid I'd be underwhelmed and feel like I wasted a bunch of money. I'm afraid it might look like LD

The mechanical vs electrical situation is also valid but I'd say its a toss up. Yes, when a chip dies its dead and there are a lot of proprietary Pioneer chips in these things. How often do those chips fail though? One could, however, much more easily fix or repair a power supply component failure or in my case, a spindle motor than an M-holder for example. In fact, I've seen some people report that they've upgraded the PS caps and have had an increase in PQ. I think one could probably make several component level upgrades that will directly affect the PQ or at minimum give you a few more miles than the original stuff that is on its last legs but I'm not an EE. It has been said that a recently aligned lower end player could equal or at least compete with a higher end unit that was out of alignment so there are a lot of variables that come with age and use, not to mention shipping, as I'm sure you could agree. A lot of the stuff I see on the boards is through hole. Maybe not the easiest to get to physically but one can theoretically replace an electrical component with off the shelf parts as opposed to a broken gear or plastic part especially if those parts are no longer available to purchase. The existing plastic parts aren't getting stronger with age either. Newer capacitors, diodes, resistors, etc are made everyday to various specs. 3D printing will change the landscape of vintage parts in the near future. Some people here are already doing it.

That brings us full circle to why I am interested in build quality, components and reliability: My 704 spindle motor. I'll look up the part number and re-read the threads here. The D702 motor won't work huh? Like it won't physically match? A V840 motor could work though? I also have a Philips that is a clone of a D503 and could use that...I really like my 704 and it is lonely on the shelf. I want it to work again. Maintaining these things will be a task and learning curve for sure. I guess my whole point here boils down to I don't want to continually be repairing, looking for and buying LD players that meet my needs. I do require AC-3, SPDIF and dual sided play. While maybe not the highest end players those features tend to cause prices to go up. I'm very happy with my machines. I just want to maintain what I have since I'm satisfied and just want to enjoy them without too much concern. Pipe dreams I know....All I can think of is to rotate my players every 6 months or so and exercise them.

Time for more coffee

The future will be different from the past, of course, but in my 25+ years experiences with the format I’ve never seen an electronic failure in an LD player and we all know about spindles and m holders dying so I’m going to disagree with Substance for once. He has a lot of players and doesn’t wear our gear as fast as people like the OP who I’m pretty sure has a huge stack of LDs to watch for the first or second time still.

Also, the only stuff that’s totally irreplaceable are the (many many) proprietary chips these machines have. If a cap corrodes and melts a trace on a board there are still people who can fix that. I can restore a pretty f-up PCB myself. You have to find the right shop though, of course. Most of the guys around me just want to plug new turner boards into year old TVs but there are people who can still solder and use a meter. Chances are it’s not going to be the super rare 3D comb filter chip that dies in your LD player. It’s going to be power supplies, diodes, and caps you can still get cheaper than ever. If a chip does die, most of them are boring timers and opamps and switches that can be stolen from dozens of other models. But before that it’s probably going to be wasted ball bearings or shattered gears that got brittle from off gassing or UV exposure over the decades.

I based my opinion on this fact:)

I agree that if the silicon had imperfections, it would fail within the first year or two but 25+ years is uncharted territory for solid state electronics. We don’t know how much more we can expect them to operate without fail. I do hope we get another 25 years.


Caps will surely die soon. A capacitor is a super battery. It charges and discharges. Resistors also drift away from their ratings over time. These are cheap and relatively easy to replace. No concerns here as you already mentioned.

My Marantz 2230 is from 1972, everything is original except the lightbulbs, even the string on the cable operated gyro tuner and also the huge huge caps. I run it at 80% volume once a week. The biggest issue is a dead spot in the balance.

With caps I really think it’s sorta luck. A lot of early 90s Macs died from bad caps and also things like the Turbo Duo have serious issues with them. If the stuff hit 20 years I think you’re probably in the clear as long as you use the device. If it sits unpowered for years on end, my experience is that it’s much more likely to fail. I don’t have real science for this but I’ve noticed my stuff rarely breaks compared to other people and I think use is a big part of it. Everything gets used.

I’m much more worried about newer stuff, Flash, CMOS, and chips that run hot as dogs balls all day and night. Most LD players have no storage at all, which is a good thing. 555s never die.

So much good info here, thanks everyone. I'm no expert. I'm just bored and looking for interesting albeit useless facts. Hopefully you're enjoying it too.

With regard to single sided players, it seems at the highest pinnacle of LD (HLD-X0) you get a single sided player anyway. So I guess the thought was that the highest (build) quality is achieved with that mechanical design. Less is more. Playing the reverse side is apparently not ideal or at minimum is more cost and more moving parts. The original LD players were also single sided. I wonder why they decided to add "auto reverse" later as opposed to right out of the gate. I'm sure it was driven by consumer's response. Seems obviously necessary for this format. I personally require both side play for movies. If all players were single sided I personally don't think I'd have stuck to this hobby. I would easily make the trade off of the quality (and price tag) of an X0 vs the real world experience of a lesser quality dual sided player for everyday use but hey that's just me. Industrial players seemed to have things in common with players like an X0 so it got me thinking.

Manual side flip is not as annoying as you think on CLV discs. Most movies are only 1 flip. There are some really fast switching players but I am usually quicker manually flipping the discs than my auto switching players. The picture on S2 and X0 is so good I rarely use my auto flip players. For me the compromise is worth it. I must admit for this reason I typically chose CLV versions. Also, most LDs I watch are TV series with 1 Episode per side. Maybe it is more annoying to flip yourself on movies?

Moving on, I hear you on the high end players. I get it. Higher price likely means better quality. I guess practically speaking though I'm not likely to run into those players at a reasonable price tomorrow and many of them don't meet my needs anyway. If I did I'd obviously get one. Outside of that, my thought is to get an industrial player simply because they tend to be cheap and I don't have one. Not to mention nostalgia, I was exposed to LD in middle school with a LD-V2000 or something. Also, the Domesday project is something I want to play with but that is so much time/money/work that it is simply on my back burner for now. Even for that, I could use any player I currently have.


As for crap in=crap out and processing you're right. I didn't mean to imply that any player will magically look amazing with processing. However, I also think you Substance (of all people) probably agree a D406 would ultimately look better though a 2144 as opposed to a D406 composite in to the same 2019 TV. What about a D406 into a 2144 vs a X0 composite in to the same 2019 TV? Subjective at best since we all see differently and there will be many variables involved. I'd like to see those comparisons though. In the end: LD will always look like LD.

X0 into TV still would have significantly less noise than 406 with 2144. Everyone would be able to identify the difference. Even less forgiving on a large TV. HLD-X0 is very expensive but it really is a special player.

I guess what I mean is that at a certain level the differences in players is not that great until you spend a lot of money (same for processors) or import a player from Japan. At that point you're spending at least what $3-500+ with shipping? Even then the difference in PQ is only marginally better. Not night and day - is it? If so is it worth a $500-2K? It depends on the person. My *assumption* is that most people these days, in the US, who find players locally are finding average US consumer players (4, 5, 6, 700 series). Once in a while you'll find the scores you speak of but not often. Those $6,500 players don't sell for less than $500 most likely. I see a lot of people who are very happy finding players for <$100 locally or paying double that or more to have an average quality player shipped to them that usually arrives broken. I certainly never paid more than that for any of my machines. Not that any of them are the TOTL but some decent models. The V888 w/remote was $60 for basically a 919 with CD/LD-G. The 704 was $125 with a bunch of movies. I will (hopefully) never spend $1000 on a LD player but also hope to find something stellar locally one day. At my price point all the players are about equal IMO. For dual sided players 704 is pretty good. 919 also not bad. Where else can I go from there really? Nowhere that makes a significant difference in build or picture quality IMO. X1/S2 is single sided and no AC3, but that can be added. 99 perhaps but why when the motor will eventually fail and I have a C2 and a 704 that I can have repaired?

You have to consider the cost fo adding AC3 out. Shipping both ways, labor, parts, it won’t be cheap. If you are on a budge, I would look for one with RF out. But then I don’t value AC-3 very highly. LD titles I care for are not AC-3 encoded expect very few. If you like mainstream American films and prefer to watch them on LD over other formats then it’s a worthwhile feature for you.

Believe it or not those high end players from high end theaters usually show up on the very cheap. Since those guys have moved on decades ago and can’t even imagine people still watch LDs they overly underestimate the potential of these players. I didn’t pay too much money for my Voyagers. I know many hear found cheap Runco LJRs. You just need to find them at the dealer level or local private sales. But if you are looking for something immediately then you need to be super lucky.

In collecting game you need to have either a lot of money or a lot patience ( in some cases you need both). A few years ago I wanted a Theta Voyager really bad. I posted everywhere and offered big money. Not a single person approached me with a player to sell. I kept looking and about a year and half later I found one locally for a couple hundred dollars at a local Theta dealer. The dealer was used to selling new or newish players at thousands of dollars, he had no idea what to ask for this 20 year old player. A few months later I came across another Voyager on an Audiogon which is known for audio gear not video. if you don’t mind the wait, I guarantee you you will score a really nice player for a very reasonable price.


Substance, you've mentioned previously that less than a handful of models have a decent comb filter compared to current technology. I believe you or perhaps another member also noted that any of the NR built into a LD player and/or most processors is outdated tech and not even relevant these days with a newer set up. So then, the million dollar question is what are you getting with a higher end player? The answer is better electronic components and mechanical built quality, right?. That heavy copper base to reduce vibrations, the better spec'd components, the better longer lasting quieter motors, better laser, etc. I'm almost afraid to see what an XO looks like on my set up. I'm afraid I'd be underwhelmed and feel like I wasted a bunch of money. I'm afraid it might look like LD

There are two big struggles. First one is extracting as much info as possible from the LD disc. Second one is not adding any influence to the video output. Most 90s players will extract very good amount of information from the disc. Older players use analog CCD type electronics to time align the signal and these will always lose some info. Due to the way NTSC works, some of this info will be lost during Y/C separation. 3D comb filters will lose a lot less information than 2D comb filters. Only a few LD players ever had 3D comb filters. You can fix this issue with using composite out into a 3D comb filter equipped TV or scalar. Second issue, not adding any influence is a lot more difficult to deal with. Cheaper player will add significant amount of video noise to the signal. The only way to fix this is to blur it aka digital video noise reduction. Very high end noise reduction circuits can identify edges, corners, fine details etc and apply blur on only smooth surfaces. This is a very difficult task to perform in real time. Computer softwares do far better job with multiple passes. Either way you are blurring your video. It is best not to have noise in the first place. Higher end player have significantly lower noise levels. That’s why they are still sought after. CLD-95-97, 3080, S1/S2 are all very low noise players and not as expensive as HLD-X0.



The mechanical vs electrical situation is also valid but I'd say its a toss up. Yes, when a chip dies its dead and there are a lot of proprietary Pioneer chips in these things. How often do those chips fail though? One could, however, much more easily fix or repair a power supply component failure or in my case, a spindle motor than an M-holder for example. In fact, I've seen some people report that they've upgraded the PS caps and have had an increase in PQ. I think one could probably make several component level upgrades that will directly affect the PQ or at minimum give you a few more miles than the original stuff that is on its last legs but I'm not an EE. It has been said that a recently aligned lower end player could equal or at least compete with a higher end unit that was out of alignment so there are a lot of variables that come with age and use, not to mention shipping, as I'm sure you could agree. A lot of the stuff I see on the boards is through hole. Maybe not the easiest to get to physically but one can theoretically replace an electrical component with off the shelf parts as opposed to a broken gear or plastic part especially if those parts are no longer available to purchase. The existing plastic parts aren't getting stronger with age either. Newer capacitors, diodes, resistors, etc are made everyday to various specs. 3D printing will change the landscape of vintage parts in the near future. Some people here are already doing it.

That brings us full circle to why I am interested in build quality, components and reliability: My 704 spindle motor. I'll look up the part number and re-read the threads here. The D702 motor won't work huh? Like it won't physically match? A V840 motor could work though? I also have a Philips that is a clone of a D503 and could use that...I really like my 704 and it is lonely on the shelf. I want it to work again. Maintaining these things will be a task and learning curve for sure. I guess my whole point here boils down to I don't want to continually be repairing, looking for and buying LD players that meet my needs. I do require AC-3, SPDIF and dual sided play. While maybe not the highest end players those features tend to cause prices to go up. I'm very happy with my machines. I just want to maintain what I have since I'm satisfied and just want to enjoy them without too much concern. Pipe dreams I know....All I can think of is to rotate my players every 6 months or so and exercise them.

Time for more coffee :crazy


Also another note on alignment. I think this is highly overrated. Unless the player is extremely off, it won’t look that much worse. Not saying alignment won’t help any player but some user like Kurtis, me and a few others are very critical and we see things most people won’t or won’t care. We have to be very careful when we praise an equipment over others.

Pretty much this. When watching a CLV, I usually select single side play anyway if I'm using a Both Side Play player because I like to either just watch half at a time or take a break.


If you have electronics experience, adding AC-3 yourself isn't terribly difficult. The skill floor is much, much lower than alignment. I have some very nice high-end players I could add AC-3 on, but I just don't value it enough. I'm currently building a board based on ldfan's though just for fun.


The difference between a CLD-3080 and LD-S2 is small when you factor in the ~$500 price jump. The CLD-3080 is ridiculously good for the price point. Going back to the mechanically sound question, if something goes wrong the LD-S2, it is akin to disassembling a Boeing 747. On the other hand the CLD-3080 drawer is broken the majority of the time and if you need to service it, you have to build a tent with the boards...


If there is a small amount of evenly distributed crosstalk, I can see someone thinking the player as just being a noisy player. They would need to have seen a low noise player without issues though as a reference.

Another vote for single sided players. More solid and reliable in my experience.

I own a few 4400's these days. If you want a reliable player almost indestructable.... GET AN INDUSTRIAL MODEL!!

with the right scaler they look great! They lack digital output but that's easy to mod. Should do some more research on adding ac-3rf out on those at one point. dts is already added

I’ll throw my two cents in....

As far as I am concerned, I’ll take any player that works and obtainable for a reasonable price (I did get a CLD-D704 clone for just $40 which was a steal) and set-up two players at all times for each home theater I have to reduce wear and tear on any one player (usually like to have two of the same players for picture and sound consistency for when I deploy both players to watch a multi-disc title).

So far I haven’t had any issues but I admit more of it has to do with a lack of use since I find myself streaming or playing DVD / Blu ray discs more than LD playback. It will change when I someday get settled in at a future new residence.

But I do admit, my most bullet proof players have been my CLD-3030 and LD-838D which are both single side players and from the late 80’s. My CLD-97 is probably even more robust but the fact it has auto reverse makes it a tad more fragile (but still durable since it's a first generation Alpha Turn mechanism).

Thanks for all the deep thoughts on this subject. All the passionate nerds have come out. I see you

Anyway, Zeta you and I see eye to eye on a lot of things. I know you're a PCE/TG16 guy as am I and we share so many opinions. Good stuff dude, thx.

Subsatnce, thanks for entertaining all of this. I'm sure it can be tedious and repetitive. You're right as far as patience and budget. I'm always looking and that is key. No hurry on my end so I'll find something nice locally. I'm already happy especially if I can fix the 704...Yes, budget is always a factor for me. I dig LD because they're cheap, as opposed to some other electronic hobbies/collectables. I'm not seeking out $100 Horror flicks or Anime boxes from Japan for $200 and 3 month shipping. No offense at all to those who do. It just isn't my style. I have purposely limited myself to not spending real money on this hobby. Because, why? I don't buy on eBay, from Japan or have players shipped. I ONLY buy local and ONLY when the price is right for me. I think maybe I've spent $20 on a single LD. Twice maybe. No player over $100. The processors have been the biggest expense actually and even those have been relatively dirt cheap. However, I understand we all have different budgets and desires with concern to LD.

C++, thanks for all the suggestions. Spot on usually. I agree adding AC3 is something I'm pretty sure I can do but have not done yet and don't have a player I can F up right now. Not having AC3 won't stop me if I find a great player without it for the right price. AC3 is kind of a yard stick for me as it tells me this is likely a 1995 or newer dual side player without having to dig too deep. To me that says less miles and newer components. Also, the original price means it was likely treated well.

For me, all the bells and whistles of this format should be available, AC-3 and dual side play being the main ones. Why be limited on such an old format when there isn't much holding you back? Unless, as mentioned, you just don't want/need AC3. It just makes LD that much more fun to me (I'm a sound guy).

Many people have mentioned the 3080 as being solid and good PQ. I will have to consider that. How about the rest of the series? 1080 & 2080? Same-ish?

As for single vs both side play. Wow, thats big for me on my main system for movies. I can see that it may depend on your viewing preferences but for me its 90% movies and the rest is music/doc type stuff. Not much TV. I'm not getting off the couch 1/3 to 1/2 way through a movie. I'm not a projectionist so I don't have the nostalgia of changing reels. Just....No. Especially with a CAV box, forget it. Shame too since the best of the best is single sided. Ugh.

My players flip the disc in about 11 seconds. You're saying you can get up off the couch, walk to the player, flip, close and sit down in less than that? If so then you deserve some kind of special award. Kudos to you sir. Not me. We do enjoy an intermission on 2 disc CLV movies. We'll take advantage of that time like a bathroom or snack break. Its annoying to me on single disc CLV movie though.

LDFan, also very good advice from you whenever I see you posting. Thanks. I agree that perhaps the BEST solution for me is 2 identical players...or at least rotating out players so they are getting some use as Zeta mentioned. Idle LD players are the devils playground.

Kris seems to know whats up on the industrial side and he has about 300 players at any given time it seems so let's hear more about that. 4400/4300 into a C2 isn't too bad PQ? DTS comes out of the EFM port like SPDIF? I'll look at your thread some more. Plus, come on a white LD player? Nothing says geek quite like an industrial LD player! Maybe the 4300 is my white whale An industrial player would likely only be for experimenting with the EFM and RS232 ports, maybe domesday at some point so single sided doesn't bother me there.

As always it boils down to convenience vs. quality. If you don't want to get up off the couch you'll have to settle for less than the best PQ and build quality. If you want super reliable and dependable you'll have to get off the couch AND miss out on features like AC3 or SPDIF and perhaps deal with some noise.

Sigh.

I have a Quasar LD9090. And a RC 232C . Bouth over 30 yeaers old.
And bouth still working great!

That's not a model, that's just the name of the serial port!

OPS! You are so right! I should of said. Pioneer.

I'm just gonna assume it's the V2800 then.

I haven't seen either player before unfortunately.

In respect to the 1080, it was a player that along the 1070 were the first players that started to see the first evidence of cost cutting in the form of lighter weight vs. the 1030 and earlier models. It doesn’t mean they were bad but definitely slightly noisier mechanically because of it. As far as performance, they were fine in my opinion and sounded great due to the continued use of multi bit DAC’s for their digital audio sections (70 series had 4x over sampling, 16 bit; 80 series had 8x over sampling and maybe 18 bit; and then the 90 series go with the new 1bit direct linear conversion decoders that many people feel sound less warm).

In respect to the 2080, all the same as the 1080 but with auto reverse and lacking the digital field memory of the 3080. Overall a good player that still has the 1st gen Alpha Turn that is more durable than the later designs. Obviously the picture quality may not be as good as the later generation models but that’s subjective if your goal is to have a true “analog”’ picture vs. the 703 and later models with DVP (Digital Video Processing).

I wouldn’t mind acquiring a 3080 if the opportunity came and if it was in decent condition. Always admired it’s design and that nifty pop out door (the one that keeps breaking but I wanted to see about fixing one since it appears to be an simple spring actuator that is apparently easy to get parts for).