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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 12:44 |
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d770 wrote: How do people add delay to restore Lip Sync when playing their AC3 titles ? Is it on all channels or mostly on the dialogs from the center speaker? If center, based on the DPP-1 User Manual, you can add 1 to 5ms delay on the center speaker. Alternatively, you A/V Amp should have delay settings, speaker by speaker. Julien
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d770
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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 16:34 |
Serious fan |
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Joined: 19 Aug 2019, 07:23 Posts: 175 Location: Australia Has thanked: 122 times Been thanked: 42 times
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I've got the Receiver that was originally paired/sold with the Yamaha DDP-1 Decoder to try...the Yamaha RX-V2090....will dig out an owners manual to configure and see how the two units perform together - They should work well ... its worth the effort as I do like the AC3 soundtracks! signofzeta wrote: I have the same issue, or rather I will when my XBR-960 dies. Anything modern HD adds lag massively larger than any 90s setup could ever generate. AVR’s don’t add delay to analog channels usually, so it’s just one more reason why CRTs or “period correct” home theaters have their advantages.
_________________ CLD-D770 OK CLD-2850 FLD,R201 CLD-D780 MHolder, PSU C12 CLD-2290 Digital Prob CLD-2590K Lots issues
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 18:08 |
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d770 wrote: I've got the Receiver that was originally paired/sold with the Yamaha DDP-1 Decoder to try...the Yamaha RX-V2090....will dig out an owners manual to configure and see how the two units perform together - They should work well ... its worth the effort as I do like the AC3 soundtracks! signofzeta wrote: I have the same issue, or rather I will when my XBR-960 dies. Anything modern HD adds lag massively larger than any 90s setup could ever generate. AVR’s don’t add delay to analog channels usually, so it’s just one more reason why CRTs or “period correct” home theaters have their advantages. It’s not going to fix your issue because the issue is your TV or any modern TV. No period receiver will have the ability to delay the signal 250ms or whatever you probably need because back then TV’s all had nearly identical lag, about 1/30 of a second. Even early (2004) HDTVs like mine, which do fully digitize the signal before then sending it to the CRT, produce very little lag. I’m not sure what the deal is with the new stuff. Everything lags on them. New gear has stupid latency at every step, drives me nuts.
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substance
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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 20:58 |
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signofzeta wrote: d770 wrote: I've got the Receiver that was originally paired/sold with the Yamaha DDP-1 Decoder to try...the Yamaha RX-V2090....will dig out an owners manual to configure and see how the two units perform together - They should work well ... its worth the effort as I do like the AC3 soundtracks! signofzeta wrote: I have the same issue, or rather I will when my XBR-960 dies. Anything modern HD adds lag massively larger than any 90s setup could ever generate. AVR’s don’t add delay to analog channels usually, so it’s just one more reason why CRTs or “period correct” home theaters have their advantages. It’s not going to fix your issue because the issue is your TV or any modern TV. No period receiver will have the ability to delay the signal 250ms or whatever you probably need because back then TV’s all had nearly identical lag, about 1/30 of a second. Even early (2004) HDTVs like mine, which do fully digitize the signal before then sending it to the CRT, produce very little lag. I’m not sure what the deal is with the new stuff. Everything lags on them. New gear has stupid latency at every step, drives me nuts. About 16-35ms for 60Hz content and 30 to 50ms for 24Hz content on most modern equipment when not in game or low latency mode. This is less of a concern when you use the TV speakers as the it applies the appropriate delay to audio. It is also less of an issue when the audio connection is via HDMI which communicates these delay values between the source and the display. Any other connection type and method require wizardry in the settings and often times swapping the existing hardware to more capable ones.
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d770
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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 26 Sep 2021, 07:55 |
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Joined: 19 Aug 2019, 07:23 Posts: 175 Location: Australia Has thanked: 122 times Been thanked: 42 times
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substance wrote: About 16-35ms for 60Hz content and 30 to 50ms for 24Hz content on most modern equipment when not in game or low latency mode.
This is less of a concern when you use the TV speakers as the it applies the appropriate delay to audio. It is also less of an issue when the audio connection is via HDMI which communicates these delay values between the source and the display. Any other connection type and method require wizardry in the settings and often times swapping the existing hardware to more capable ones.
Thanks to all for the explanations..yes I think you have nailed it...Currently for best picture - Im using composite from the D780 onto a Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD Recorder then its Component to the QLED UHD Samsung TV..... After checking the Manual on the Yamaha RX-V2090 AV Amp..indeed there is no provision for delay..only for Digital Inputs same as my Pioneer AX5i... So what to do! If only the DDP-1 had Digital Out! then any receiver could add delay as needed. Have to have a look see if possible maybe to add Digital output to the DDP-1 ... for now running composite directly to the TV bypassing the Panasonic DVD Recorder the sync is not perfect but watchable.
Last edited by d770 on 26 Sep 2021, 08:00, edited 3 times in total.
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ldfan
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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 26 Sep 2021, 20:43 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014, 05:59 Posts: 1454 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Has thanked: 422 times Been thanked: 533 times
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d770 wrote: Thanks to all for the explanations..yes I think you have nailed it...Currently for best picture - Im using composite from the D780 onto a Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD Recorder then its Component to the QLED UHD Samsung TV.....
That's most likely your issue. You really can't use that DVD-R unit as I have noticed that they really add a lot of delay. If you could run both audio and video through it, it wouldn't be an issue but you obviously can't if you want to push AC3 or DTS. Does it really make that much of a difference in picture quality to LD playback? I have been using a straight composite on my set-up and I think it still looks better than any of the conversion options I have built into my Denon AV Receiver (but maybe it's my TV that has a decent comb filter) d770 wrote: If only the DDP-1 had Digital Out! then any receiver could add delay as needed. I don't think that is totally true. With your current set-up, I doubt any AV Receiver could compensate for that much delay. I would see about getting another AC3 processor that has a digital output (or mod the DDP-1 to add one) and then get a video processor w/ the type of comb filter you want along w/ a digital input to run the AC3 processor to it. I have a DVDO iScan VP30 I plan to incorporate in this fashion once I figure out if it truly is my best option to further improve my set-up. d770 wrote: ... for now running composite directly to the TV bypassing the Panasonic DVD Recorder the sync is not perfect but watchable. How off is it? You should be able to apply enough delay on the DDP1 to compensate for it.
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d770
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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 27 Sep 2021, 04:37 |
Serious fan |
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Joined: 19 Aug 2019, 07:23 Posts: 175 Location: Australia Has thanked: 122 times Been thanked: 42 times
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ldfan wrote: I don't think that is totally true. With your current set-up, I doubt any AV Receiver could compensate for that much delay. I would see about getting another AC3 processor that has a digital output (or mod the DDP-1 to add one) and then get a video processor w/ the type of comb filter you want along w/ a digital input to run the AC3 processor to it. I have a DVDO iScan VP30 I plan to incorporate in this fashion once I figure out if it truly is my best option to further improve my set-up. With AC3 Processors being so hard to get..I think its worth trying to mod a DDP-1 adding a Digital Output first...it uses the common Pioneer IC that has a DA Out Pin...however I don't have the circuit for this unit - that would be nice - (maybe similar to ADP-1)...so also currently not 100% sure if we can tap directly off the DA Output pin to an Optical Socket without other components/circuit being required.?! The DVDO iScan VP30 sounds like a good plan...you dont see these for for sale in Australia unfortunately. ldfan wrote: How off is it? You should be able to apply enough delay on the DDP1 to compensate for it. Its noticeable - the DDP-1 can only add up to 5ms max audio delay. What TV do you have ? - definitely this Samsung QLED TV we currently have is not the best for LD directly
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ldfan
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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 29 Sep 2021, 20:30 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014, 05:59 Posts: 1454 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Has thanked: 422 times Been thanked: 533 times
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d770 wrote: ... I have sneaked a workaround of sorts for now whilst I figure out other options - which gives sync for voice from the center speaker.
I simply rerouted the centre channel from the DDP-1 AC3 processor to the Panasonic DVD-Recorder Left Analog Audio Input and then from the Left Analog Output from the DVD Recorder to the AV Receiver Center Input. Voice in Sync....!
That will definitely work . You will still have delay on the other channels but it may not seem as obvious unless a person is talking to the far left or right side of a scene. You may even get a slight echo effect across the three front channels if a mix involves a combination of all those speakers.
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d770
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Post subject: Re: AC3 Delay/Sync Query Posted: 01 Oct 2021, 02:59 |
Serious fan |
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Joined: 19 Aug 2019, 07:23 Posts: 175 Location: Australia Has thanked: 122 times Been thanked: 42 times
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ldfan wrote: That will definitely work . You will still have delay on the other channels but it may not seem as obvious unless a person is talking to the far left or right side of a scene. You may even get a slight echo effect across the three front channels if a mix involves a combination of all those speakers. 100% right ldfan....most of the time speech is centred so yes much more acceptable than being out of lip-sync Watching 'Breakdown' last night... one scene where music is playing in the background in a diner..you get that echo effect...surprisingly it just seemed to add a more spatial result...all other channels seem much less noticeable as any issue. Been looking at this a bit more for an overall better solution..a couple of possibilities - adding an external delay circuit utilising a PT2399 chip. Or also still looking at gaining Digital out from a DDP-1 and playing with delay from that. For Ref: Audio Delay Circuit https://www.petervis.com/guitar-circuit ... rcuit.html
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