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Which title(s) should be processed first? (choose up to 3)
 Alaska: Last Frontier (1994) [00MW-0008]  4%  4%  [ 3 ]
 Atlantis (1991) [PILH-1003]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Back to the Future (1985) [PA-HD80196]  8%  8%  [ 6 ]
 Back to the Future Part II (1989) [PA-HD80914]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
 Back to the Future Part III (1990) [PA-HD80976]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Basic Instinct (1992) (Uncut) [PILH-1002]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992) [HVMC-14590]  4%  4%  [ 3 ]
 Bugsy (1991) [HVMC-13645]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Chaplin (1992) [PILH-1005]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
 Cliffhanger (1993) [PILH-1007]  3%  3%  [ 2 ]
 Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Special Edition (1980) [HVMC-10003]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
 Dances with Wolves (1990) (Uncut) [PILH-7001]  4%  4%  [ 3 ]
 E.T. (1982) [PA-HD77012]  3%  3%  [ 2 ]
 Ferrari of the Art [COLE-50004]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
 Guyana - The Lost World [00MW-0016]  3%  3%  [ 2 ]
 In the Line of Fire (1993) [HVMC-19668]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Jurassic Park (1993) [PA-HD82061]  12%  12%  [ 9 ]
 Katie & Marielle Labeque: The Loves of Emma Bardac [SRLM 1067]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
 Lawrence of Arabia (1962) [HVMC-12058]  3%  3%  [ 2 ]
 League of Their Own, A (1992) [HVMC-14589]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Legends of the Fall (1994) [HVMC-21588]  4%  4%  [ 3 ]
 Maeda - Hills of the Seasons (1990) [00MW-0005]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
 Musee du Louvre 2 [ICHL-0002]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
 Pictures at an Exhibition, Solti CSO [SRLM 1068]  4%  4%  [ 3 ]
 Pioneer: Hi-Vision LD Demonstration Disc (1993) [HE-100]  10%  10%  [ 8 ]
 Silence of the Lambs, The (1991) [HVMC-12819]  3%  3%  [ 2 ]
 Sleepless in Seattle (1993) [HVMC-19799]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Song of Africa (1997) [00MW-0014]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Sony: The Test Disc (1995) [00MW-0009]  8%  8%  [ 6 ]
 Stargate (1994) [PILH-1008]  8%  8%  [ 6 ]
 Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) [PILH-1001]  10%  10%  [ 8 ]
 Top Gun (1986) [PA-HD71692]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
 Universal Soldier (1992) [PILH-1004]  0%  0%  [ 0 ]
 Wolf (1994) [HVMC-18647]  1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 77

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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 16:29 
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msgohan wrote:
tomtastic wrote:
The optical solution is interesting, unfortunately the Black Magic only does bitstreaming over HDMI.

It captures uncompressed PCM over HDMI, which isn't usually what people mean by "bitstreaming" audio.

Something like this should allow you to do RCA SPDIF from the MSC-4000 -> HDMI -> BlackMagic:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Component-Video ... 0174705226
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Compone ... 003L16ZHW/


These devices you suggest to get digital sound converted from optical or RCA SPDIF to HDMI into the Black Magic hub sound promising. Can only find out by testing how they actually perform. Has anyone ever tried with this device? What does this mean in the device description??? "It also takes digital audio and encodes it onto the HDMI signal for the full HDMI video and audio effect."

The problem is not that we need or even want any sampling of analog picture to digital, we want the Black Magic Hub to do this (I will assume you are just talking about audio capture, later we strip the captured digital audio from the picture in our editing software) . It's the sound that is tricky here. I'm guessing that these cheap devices are really doing a cheap digital to analog conversion and then back to HDMI.?????? They don't say. If so, we are back to a DAC.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 17:09 
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I don't need any of these devices. My video processor Crystalio II can do this. I can feed optical out from the muse decoder into Crystalio II and output as HDMI even without video. I could even feed analog RCA into Crystalio II and have it output via HDMI using its 24bit/96Khz analog devices Analog to Digital converters.
I could connect component video and optical into Crystalio II. Crystalio II has a pass-through mode which disables all processing but component to HDMI conversion and merge optical audio into HDMI. The only trouble is as far as I know Crystalio II will not output 60hz but 59.94hz so there will be a frame rate conversion regardless. Maybe my display doesn't accept 60hz so Crystalio II opts for 59.94hz. I can try connecting intensity shuttle and Crystalio II in pass-through mode. Maybe it will pass 1035i60hz I will have to check on that.

Crystalio II has analog devices ADV7321 12bit 216mhz analog to digital encoder. I don't know if intensity shuttle has better for its component input.
If 1035i60hz works on Crystalio II into intensity shuttle, that solves most of our problems. I can do 2 captures 1 for left and right audio and 1 for center and surround.

Can video and audio be separated later on? or if I just capture audio alone, can it be merged onto video later?
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 17:37 
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substance wrote:
I don't need any of these devices. My video processor Crystalio II can do this. I can feed optical out from the muse decoder into Crystalio II and output as HDMI even without video. I could even feed analog RCA into Crystalio II and have it output via HDMI using its 24bit/96Khz analog devices Analog to Digital converters.
I could connect component video and optical into Crystalio II. Crystalio II has a pass-through mode which disables all processing but component to HDMI conversion and merge optical audio into HDMI. The only trouble is as far as I know Crystalio II will not output 60hz but 59.94hz so there will be a frame rate conversion regardless. Maybe my display doesn't accept 60hz so Crystalio II opts for 59.94hz. I can try connecting intensity shuttle and Crystalio II in pass-through mode. Maybe it will pass 1035i60hz I will have to check on that.

Crystalio II has analog devices ADV7321 12bit 216mhz analog to digital encoder. I don't know if intensity shuttle has better for its component input.
If 1035i60hz works on Crystalio II into intensity shuttle, that solves most of our problems. I can do 2 captures 1 for left and right audio and 1 for center and surround.

Can video and audio be separated later on? or if I just capture audio alone, can it be merged onto video later?


To answer your questions. Yes on both.

Your sound is only going to be as good as your source. Since your sound is digital to begin with, from the LD/Muse, there is no sense in converting to analog and resampling at a higher rate. The trick here is, does your Crystalio II do a digital to digital write into HDMI for the audio? If not, how good is the DAC? Can only try and see how it sounds. Your definitely going to want the digital output from the player/muse decoder, the analog output (rca) is out, lower quality, unless you have to do an analog conversion, then you want the best DAC. Correct?


Last edited by elviscaprice on 29 Sep 2013, 17:53, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 17:44 
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As far as I know it is direct digital as bitrates and everything matches on both ends.
This is from its owner's manual:
"Video circuits and audio delay circuits are clocked by 1ppm high precision low jitter TCXOs (temperature compensated crystal oscillators) and produce the highest quality standard of video and audio output."

It also has 2 HD-SDI inputs, only if I could tap into digital stream of the muse decoder:)
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 17:51 
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I also own Algolith Mosquito HDMI for analog and digital noise reduction. Algolith made broadcast grade noise removers for consumer market in mid to late 2000s before it was acquired by Sensio Technologies(broadcast equipment) Algolith sold some of its noise reduction algorithms to HQV but the current HQV chips don't have enough memory and power to run complete algorithms.
you can adjust static and motion noise reduction separately. You can switch it between analog and digital. in digital mode it deals with mosquito noise, banding, ringing and background noise.

in analog mode it applies Gaussian filters to appropriate areas of the image(leaving detailed areas untouched) therefor without losing detail. It has a mapping mode where you can see where the image is processed where its left alone(or apply less filters) Analog mode may help MUSE. I will try this later this week.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 17:56 
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substance wrote:
I also own Algolith Mosquito HDMI for analog and digital noise reduction. Algolith made broadcast grade noise removers for consumer market in mid to late 2000s before it was acquired by Sensio Technologies(broadcast equipment) Algolith sold some of its noise reduction algorithms to HQV but the current HQV chips don't have enough memory and power to run complete algorithms.
you can adjust static and motion noise reduction separately. You can switch it between analog and digital. in digital mode it deals with mosquito noise, banding, ringing and background noise.

in analog mode it applies Gaussian filters to appropriate areas of the image(leaving detailed areas untouched) therefor without losing detail. It has a mapping mode where you can see where the image is processed where its left alone(or apply less filters) Analog mode may help MUSE. I will try this later this week.


Sounds good, I think your right in that your just going to have to try different captures testing different setups and see what works best. I will be interested in which flow works best.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 18:42 
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Quote:
It captures uncompressed PCM over HDMI, which isn't usually what people mean by "bitstreaming" audio.


If it's present, it will capture ac3 over HDMI like the HD PVR does over optical, but it's just digital PCM we're talking about here over optical vs analog on RCA.


So if you can do optical from MUSE to video processor and output both video/audio over HDMI, that's great, it solves the optical problem. Get it hooked up that way, I wouldn't worry about the 59.94 vs 60, it does the same on mine. It says it's capturing at 30fps, but when I play it, it shows 59.94. When I have it in video compressor it shows 30fps.

The audio and video can be split later. You'll just want to label each output file with left/right audio and then your second with center/rear audio. You'll split both audio tracks off and then I'll have to grab them at this point, (unless you can find the Dolby Digital software and an older machine running 10.4).

If you haven't already you'll need to download VLC Player, handbrake and mkvmerge. Just google those and they're easy to install and free. Once you have your RAW output files, simply open them into handbrake and you'll want to go to your audio settings. For video settings select MKV but you don't need to set anything else for video, it's not going to be used, just the audio.

Under the audio settings, I suggest selecting ffmpeg ac3 and using 640 kbps output, then run it. Next open up mkvmerge and import your new file. Uncheck the video file and leave the audio checked. At the bottom where it has output name, name this your final output left/right, then click run. When it gets done, repeat for the center/rear. Those are the files I'll need, or if we can figure out how to get it done on your end, you'll need at some point to complete the next few steps.

For the video, this is where we need to know more about the BD authoring tool. If it will let you import video and audio separately, which is what we really need for multiple audio tracks, we won't have to merge the audio and video back together first. Also we need to know what format the Black Magic is encoding it to. I assume its AVCHD MPEG 4 like the HD PVR. You may have some work to do with the framing a bit first, but don't get too far ahead at this point. One thing to remember is you're going to need to retain the black bars into your final ouput, if they're removed the BD tool will force your frame into 16x9, but it's an easy step and the framing can be adjusted as needed before it goes to the BD tool. But right here we just need to know more about your output file for video before we get too far ahead.

I just looked at dvdfab's blu ray creator, I think it's just not advanced enough, it doesn't create menus that I can tell and it will require merging audio back in, so I don't know if this one will work. I'm checking out a few others right now. I haven't created Blu ray's before so I'm not sure if it will accept multiple audio tracks if they're merged in the video file. Getting the audio tracks merged back with the video can be done though too before they go to the Blu ray tool, just not sure how it will work at that final step, depends on the BD tool. I'll keep looking.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 19:42 
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substance wrote:
I can feed optical out from the muse decoder into Crystalio II and output as HDMI even without video.

I think you mean SPDIF RCA/coaxial? Everything I've seen shows the MSC-4000 doesn't have optical.

Quote:
Crystalio II has analog devices ADV7321 12bit 216mhz analog to digital encoder. I don't know if intensity shuttle has better for its component input.

It would be a good idea to capture some samples from both and compare them frame-to-frame. Do any of your MUSE discs contain test patterns?

tomtastic wrote:
Quote:
It captures uncompressed PCM over HDMI, which isn't usually what people mean by "bitstreaming" audio.

If it's present, it will capture ac3 over HDMI like the HD PVR does over optical

According to who? Blackmagic's own reps say it won't:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/124/874108
http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewt ... ?f=4&t=521

Quote:
Under the audio settings, I suggest selecting ffmpeg ac3 and using 640 kbps output, then run it. (...) Those are the files I'll need, or if we can figure out how to get it done on your end, you'll need at some point to complete the next few steps.

Can't you use LPCM? Blu-ray supports it. If MUSE audio is like regular LD, it will need to be resampled from 44.1kHz to 48kHz for BD.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 20:22 
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msgohan wrote:
Can't you use LPCM? Blu-ray supports it. If MUSE audio is like regular LD, it will need to be resampled from 44.1kHz to 48kHz for BD.

MUSE audio is 48 kHz in B-Mode, 32 kHz in A-Mode. I have not yet discovered whether the A-Mode audio is reclocked to 48 kHz in the decoder.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 20:44 
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tomtastic wrote:
Quote:
It captures uncompressed PCM over HDMI, which isn't usually what people mean by "bitstreaming" audio.

If it's present, it will capture ac3 over HDMI like the HD PVR does over optical

According to who? Blackmagic's own reps say it won't:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/124/874108
http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewt ... ?f=4&t=521

I would assume it would for that price. I guess I won't buy it then as the HD PVR 2 does.

Quote:
Under the audio settings, I suggest selecting ffmpeg ac3 and using 640 kbps output, then run it. (...) Those are the files I'll need, or if we can figure out how to get it done on your end, you'll need at some point to complete the next few steps.

Can't you use LPCM? Blu-ray supports it. If MUSE audio is like regular LD, it will need to be resampled from 44.1kHz to 48kHz for BD.[/quote]

No, and I don't think you'll get LPCM quality by using a capture card and any other method is going to cost too much and too much headache post processing. My guess is the Black Magic does something similar to mine, encoding it at 384 kbps AAC or something similar. If you can figure out how to capture it in LPCM, great, but it would be easiest to only do that for the left/right channels. Post processing will be difficult trying to mix a 5.1 from it.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 21:35 
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tomtastic wrote:
My guess is the Black Magic does something similar to mine, encoding it at 384 kbps AAC or something similar.

Why guess? They list the specs and you can read user reports if you don't believe them. There's nothing special about being able to capture 2-channel PCM. The Blackmagic does it, as does every capture card that uses software encoding rather than the hardware compression chips like Hauppauge's boxes.

Quote:
Post processing will be difficult trying to mix a 5.1 from it.

How is it different from processing a Dolby track?
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 22:14 
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msgohan

You are correct its digital coaxial but no worries Crystalio II can do the same for digital coax.

tomtastic

hd pvr and hd pvr2 work a little different than bm intensity. hd pvr devices internally compress video in mpeg-4 h.264 I believe the highest bitrate allowed is 13mbps.
bm intensity shuttle captures 10bit uncompressed raw video and streams to your computer. I believe a full length movie in this method takes up several hundred gigabytes. Then you use software to compress this huge amount of information into whatever codec or bitrate you want.

the difference is one does this on the fly(hd pvr) the other does it in post processing which allows multiple passes, taking advantage of your computers much powerful processors and possibly less compression artifacts.

I read somewhere that 10mins of 10bit video takes nearly 50gb in uncompressed form. I only have nearly 100gb available on MBPs solid state drive. I don't know how nice this is going to work with external drives. I have a 2tb and 4tb external drives.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 22:17 
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I am going to create a new thread with finalized hardware. Also this is a team project now. tomtastic and I are the only members but more can join. which forum do you think is more suitable? its not really about muse decoders but muse lds. I am thinking laserdiscs section?
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 23:02 
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You should look into lossless compression for capturing, instead of uncompressed. For 8-bit HD video you can cut the bitrate down by 3:1 and it's bit-for-bit identical to the original. I don't know if there is support for 10-bit though.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 23:05 
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Do I need 10bit? Blu-rays are 8 bit anyway
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 23:06 
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substance wrote:

tomtastic

hd pvr and hd pvr2 work a little different than bm intensity. hd pvr devices internally compress video in mpeg-4 h.264 I believe the highest bitrate allowed is 13mbps.
bm intensity shuttle captures 10bit uncompressed raw video and streams to your computer. I believe a full length movie in this method takes up several hundred gigabytes. Then you use software to compress this huge amount of information into whatever codec or bitrate you want.

the difference is one does this on the fly(hd pvr) the other does it in post processing which allows multiple passes, taking advantage of your computers much powerful processors and possibly less compression artifacts.

I read somewhere that 10mins of 10bit video takes nearly 50gb in uncompressed form. I only have nearly 100gb available on MBPs solid state drive. I don't know how nice this is going to work with external drives. I have a 2tb and 4tb external drives.


Yup, you are correct. As far as that hard drive capability for writing huge amounts of data quickly. That's what I was talking about. Your going to need high speed connections, preferable to the motherboard to capture a whole film. 8 bit is more than enough for me, I can usually capture 60 minutes of analog in a 80 to 100 gig file. The nice thing about the overkill in sampling is that it will allow you more freedom for post processing if you so desire in your editing software. I doubt you can do the capture with a labtop. I've never tried to write with an external port of 3.0 or better to an HDD. It's tricky enough with SATA 6G HDD's to an appropriate motherboard 6G port. And then I only write up to a quarter of the drive (2 TB) because it slows down once it begins to fill, thus data lost/failed capture, or you can do an array of HDD's.


Last edited by elviscaprice on 30 Sep 2013, 02:23, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2013, 23:07 
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substance wrote:
Do I need 10bit? Blu-rays are 8 bit anyway


nope, 8 bit is more than enough. You want lossless/uncompressed capture. Don't compress on the fly. As soon as you compress, it will make your post processing less effective. If your not going to do any post processing then by all means, compress on the fly, but then your usually limited to the device or software abilities. No you want uncompressed 8bit.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2013, 01:41 
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msgohan wrote:
tomtastic wrote:
My guess is the Black Magic does something similar to mine, encoding it at 384 kbps AAC or something similar.


Why guess? They list the specs and you can read user reports if you don't believe them. There's nothing special about being able to capture 2-channel PCM. The Blackmagic does it, as does every capture card that uses software encoding rather than the hardware compression chips like Hauppauge's boxes.

Quote:
Post processing will be difficult trying to mix a 5.1 from it.

How is it different from processing a Dolby track?


Good advice, I'll let you know if I feel like reading up on it. From their specs page it lists nothing about how it encodes video and audio in detail.

LPCM is more difficult to work with in compression software. The mkv container doesn't support LPCM which was the method I was going to use to remove the audio. I haven't had much time working with it. I could possibly convert it to FLAC and go from there.

As for capturing without compression vs with compression. It's going to be compressed at some point. It's just done up front on the HD PVR which is at 17 mbps max, but the max resolution on mine is 1920x1080i anyway. The max bit rate my unit's seen so far is only 7 or 8 via Directv, I've never come close to 17 which would be overkill, Black Magic would be insanity without compression for what I use. You're MBP is fast enough, don't worry about it. Just capture the uncompressed data direct to your SSD then move the file over to your external. Do the same for each capture.

So far I haven't found any Blu ray tools that will do multiple audio tracks, at least on the Mac side. There are some cheap ones but they all seem to just accept a video track and one audio track which I believe must be merged before importing. The only one I can find for cheap is Adobe Encore, which is a subscription now. I think it's 20/month and has multiple audio ability, plus better menus, pop up menus and you can do the final .H264 compression in there. I'd actually recommend this app as it has everything needed. I wish they offered it for purchase but they dropped that a few months back in favor of subscriptions.

Getting back to the audio, I'm sure there's great devices out there that would allow LPCM and we could debate how much better the differences would be but the real question is: how much does substance want to spend on this project plus the time and work? You still need to factor in the possibility of failure. We could run into problems down the road, something always comes up that has to be fixed from my experience. I just ran into a major snag on burning an HD DVD after spending hours of work only to be stopped right at the final step. It happens, but I think we have to keep this project in perspective. It's not like you're going to get a 1:1 representation of what a MUSE title will be on each of your systems. Still, I'd agree it should be done in the best possible (cost effective) way. How much more equipment do you want to buy to burn off a few discs? I think what you have now is sufficient.

-Something I didn't think about before, are you going to capture one side at a time? If you do we'll have to merge them into one file (additional compression stage).
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2013, 23:28 
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I looked at Encore some more, and keeping audio/video as separate assets will work with this app. Also they have MPEG 2 and AVC for final encoding settings, so take your pick. Also accepts Dolby Digital and uncompressed PCM. It's 20/month just for that app, which is part of their cloud bundle which runs 50/month for everything. They do have one editing tool but I don't think you'll need it. You can just get the Encore app for 20/month. I'd wait till you're a little closer for final importing before getting it.

I thought about the capture method because there will be at least 3 sides, right? for these. We can't get around a pre compression stage before it goes to Encore if we want to merge all three (or 4) side captures back together as one. Ideally, you'd want Encore to handle the final output and hopefully only encoding, but not if we put them all back together as one.

Another way to avoid this would be to just work with each side separately in Encore. We do one side at a time. On DVD authoring you can set an end jump when it reaches the end of a track and it will jump where you want it to, a menu, another track, etc. I think Blu ray authoring might have this as well. There might be a slight pause when it jumps to the next track, other than that I think this method would work and eliminate having to merge them all back together pre Encore. If not then it would go back to menu and you'd have to start the second side, and so on. But I'm pretty sure the ability to do it is there. Plus editing the audio streams back in will be easier doing one side at a time and individually.

Like I said this will eliminate pre compressing and leave it to the final output. Once you have all your assets in Encore you can set the final bit rate, either constant or VBR, I suggest VBR as it's overall better and what studios use. You'll leave the max bit rate all the way up and lower your VBR until you can fit everything on the 50 gb disc.

The audio, there will be some editing involved and hopefully if it's done right, avoiding any video editing which will result in pre compressing. The main key will be getting your second capture to line up with your first (the center/surr tracks to match the left/front). When you capture you'll have to time it as best you can from the same spot. The end point of each side won't matter as much, but the starting point will.

What I can do to match them up is use the longer track as a reference point and just splice in filler material for the shorter track right at the beginning where there's dead sound. That way you have an exact match up of the audio. Unless you can time it perfectly with each pass, my experience, the capture apps sort of start when they're ready and not exactly when you click record. For side 2,3, etc. This will be tricky. Most side changes begin immediately so there's no gap at the beginning. If you can time it just right, great, otherwise we might need a second or two of dead material there in your capture. That would unfortunately be on the final output though if we don't edit the video.

So your first capture with left/right audio would be used for the final output for video, the other one will be discarded just using the audio tracks.

I suggest just doing a 5 min capture of the first side and lets see your specs first before you do the complete capture.
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 Post subject: Re: MUSE/HI-VISION to BD/HD-DVD/AVC-DVD Project
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2013, 02:37 
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tomtastic wrote:
I looked at Encore some more, and keeping audio/video as separate assets will work with this app. Also they have MPEG 2 and AVC for final encoding settings, so take your pick. Also accepts Dolby Digital and uncompressed PCM. It's 20/month just for that app, which is part of their cloud bundle which runs 50/month for everything. They do have one editing tool but I don't think you'll need it. You can just get the Encore app for 20/month. I'd wait till you're a little closer for final importing before getting it.

I thought about the capture method because there will be at least 3 sides, right? for these. We can't get around a pre compression stage before it goes to Encore if we want to merge all three (or 4) side captures back together as one. Ideally, you'd want Encore to handle the final output and hopefully only encoding, but not if we put them all back together as one.

Another way to avoid this would be to just work with each side separately in Encore. We do one side at a time. On DVD authoring you can set an end jump when it reaches the end of a track and it will jump where you want it to, a menu, another track, etc. I think Blu ray authoring might have this as well. There might be a slight pause when it jumps to the next track, other than that I think this method would work and eliminate having to merge them all back together pre Encore. If not then it would go back to menu and you'd have to start the second side, and so on. But I'm pretty sure the ability to do it is there. Plus editing the audio streams back in will be easier doing one side at a time and individually.

Like I said this will eliminate pre compressing and leave it to the final output. Once you have all your assets in Encore you can set the final bit rate, either constant or VBR, I suggest VBR as it's overall better and what studios use. You'll leave the max bit rate all the way up and lower your VBR until you can fit everything on the 50 gb disc.

The audio, there will be some editing involved and hopefully if it's done right, avoiding any video editing which will result in pre compressing. The main key will be getting your second capture to line up with your first (the center/surr tracks to match the left/front). When you capture you'll have to time it as best you can from the same spot. The end point of each side won't matter as much, but the starting point will.

What I can do to match them up is use the longer track as a reference point and just splice in filler material for the shorter track right at the beginning where there's dead sound. That way you have an exact match up of the audio. Unless you can time it perfectly with each pass, my experience, the capture apps sort of start when they're ready and not exactly when you click record. For side 2,3, etc. This will be tricky. Most side changes begin immediately so there's no gap at the beginning. If you can time it just right, great, otherwise we might need a second or two of dead material there in your capture. That would unfortunately be on the final output though if we don't edit the video.

So your first capture with left/right audio would be used for the final output for video, the other one will be discarded just using the audio tracks.

I suggest just doing a 5 min capture of the first side and lets see your specs first before you do the complete capture.


Your making it sound way harder than it has to be. There will be a bit of work but not nearly the amount of issues you bring forth once capturing is complete.
Everything can be done one time with all raw captured material in Adobe Premiere in one swoop before authoring. The trick is to line up the wanted separate audio tracks (Note: If the separate audio tracks are attached to video you could also match up the video frames, then discard the unwanted video track, keep the audio) to the wanted video via it's attached captured RCA sound. Line em up to the RCA sound, once lined up, erase the RCA sound. Done. Ready for authoring or more processing of the video.
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