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 Post subject: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 00:10 
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so i got a new iPad that has vibrant colors now my samsung 1080P tv from 2013 colors look washed out in comparison. i have finally considered upgrading

These new 4K tvs do not have composite input and i heard they don't play nice with devices that was made for the analogue era. I still have LDs to watch and maybe want to run a VHS from time to time.
All I have to make switching the signal is something called RetroTINK of you know what that is.
I also want to hook up some 16 bit videogames consoles.

I am also lost between all the (insert moniker here)LEDs and OLED. At times I hear OLED is best then I hear LCDs from samsung give similar quality without burn in. I also no longer wish to obtain Samsung as my family got one and I can see some background bars(cant describe it) there is also the concern of privacy. I hate how LG does things as their menus always have some awkward way of doing things. This leaves me with Sony which i really believe in and i heard they got the best video processing but Sony is mostly a playstation company now and I don't think they truly invest in electronics any more.

I am willing to listen from those who already bought new tvs and what they have to say about them
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 02:21 
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You’ll have a hard time finding a TV that looks as good as an iPad. It won’t be cheap.

You don’t want to use a Retrotink for AV. It’s for games.

Sony is not just a PlayStation company. If they still make a TV with composite in (research BEFORE you buy) then buy that. My newest is 2017 and it works wonderfully with LD.

The worst LCDs for LD/VHS are probably the ones from 10 years ago. They’ve gotten better in recent years.

Korean electronics suck, IMO. Samsung is only slightly more reliable and slightly less annoying to use than LG.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 13:01 
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signofzeta wrote:
You’ll have a hard time finding a TV that looks as good as an iPad. It won’t be cheap.

You don’t want to use a Retrotink for AV. It’s for games.

The worst LCDs for LD/VHS are probably the ones from 10 years ago. They’ve gotten better in recent years.

.


1) Why cant tvs look like an iPad? Its all same screen technology after all? not looking for higher PPI than 4K

2) why cant i use retrotink? I know its for games but why cant it be used for LDs?

3) i thought LCD from 10 years ago were better as they were more like a step stone between the old analogue tech and newer digital tech. Now its completely digital, even DVDs are starting to sound extinct
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 15:08 
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my SANYO OEM BEST BUY "INSIGNIA" 46" LCD from around 2011/2012 has terrific on-board analog video processing.

for the fateful day that this fine HDM goes belly-up on me, i'd love to know myself about an outboard processor
that is at least as good as this one, and doesn't quite cost the earth, either;


STRAIGHT VHS;

Image

S-VHS RECORDING FROM DVD;

Image

LASERDISC;

Image

VIDEO GAMES - SEGA SATURN;

Image

VIDEO GAMES - NINTENDO SNES;

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 16:55 
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rch928 wrote:
1) Why cant tvs look like an iPad? Its all same screen technology after all? not looking for higher PPI than 4K

2) why cant i use retrotink? I know its for games but why cant it be used for LDs?

3) i thought LCD from 10 years ago were better as they were more like a step stone between the old analogue tech and newer digital tech. Now its completely digital, even DVDs are starting to sound extinct

1) I think part of it may be that larger screens magnify flaws? You've also got different power considerations.

2) The main reason I think is the Retrotink's bob-deinterlacing, the main benefit of which for gaming is latency but is a very poor fit for movies on a flatscreen. It's a no-brainer CRT-mimicking kind of linedoubling that gives you really obnoxious flicker without the natural softening of a CRT display. Also, I ran an LD player through an RT once to judge for myself, and I recall some sync problems.

That said, while I don't have one, but it's possible that the new Retrotink 5x is more suitable for movies as it has more deinterlacing options, and I've heard some claims that it handles VHS well. I don't think the comb filter's supposed to be anything to write home about, though. What I've got my eye on is the upcoming Pixel FX Morph, which is described as a "spiritual successor" to the Framemeister and does mention LD specifically in its project roadmap: https://www.pixelfx.co/content/morph_roadmap.html

3) There's no proper continuity between CRT and LCD. While older LCD TVs are more likely to have analogue video inputs, it's still converted to digital just like today and there's nothing analogue about the displays themselves. They're just worse digital displays. Also, you can indeed still get new TVs with a composite input (like my OLED, not that I ever use the composite input because I get fewer deinterlacing artifacts with a scaler).

Tasuke, please, please, please play those old games at 4:3. Those screenshots are going to give me nightmares.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 19:31 
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I refuse to get in to 4K TV's because all of them are the so called Smart TV type which I hate with a passion. I am buying a display to connect stuff to it I don't want to have a crappy computer build in that mainly focuses on flooding you with adverts.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 23:02 
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rcarlson wrote:
rch928 wrote:
1) Why cant tvs look like an iPad? Its all same screen technology after all? not looking for higher PPI than 4K

2) why cant i use retrotink? I know its for games but why cant it be used for LDs?

3) i thought LCD from 10 years ago were better as they were more like a step stone between the old analogue tech and newer digital tech. Now its completely digital, even DVDs are starting to sound extinct

1) I think part of it may be that larger screens magnify flaws? You've also got different power considerations.

2) The main reason I think is the Retrotink's bob-deinterlacing, the main benefit of which for gaming is latency but is a very poor fit for movies on a flatscreen. It's a no-brainer CRT-mimicking kind of linedoubling that gives you really obnoxious flicker without the natural softening of a CRT display. Also, I ran an LD player through an RT once to judge for myself, and I recall some sync problems.

That said, while I don't have one, but it's possible that the new Retrotink 5x is more suitable for movies as it has more deinterlacing options, and I've heard some claims that it handles VHS well. I don't think the comb filter's supposed to be anything to write home about, though. What I've got my eye on is the upcoming Pixel FX Morph, which is described as a "spiritual successor" to the Framemeister and does mention LD specifically in its project roadmap: https://www.pixelfx.co/content/morph_roadmap.html

3) There's no proper continuity between CRT and LCD. While older LCD TVs are more likely to have analogue video inputs, it's still converted to digital just like today and there's nothing analogue about the displays themselves. They're just worse digital displays. Also, you can indeed still get new TVs with a composite input (like my OLED, not that I ever use the composite input because I get fewer deinterlacing artifacts with a scaler).

Tasuke, please, please, please play those old games at 4:3. Those screenshots are going to give me nightmares.


Part of it is also just cost. A new one is what, around $500? I honestly don't know but the screen is just 10 inches so then thinking about how big tvs are and well. If price isn't an issue, just swing for the fences of course.

I have a 5X, it is very good. Just today I was using it to play PS2 on plasma (this particular tv is quite nice but needs an adapter for component that I see no reason to buy) and the results were great. My initial test was Saturn via svideo on a monitor with a very weird native res and I was pleased with the results there as well. It was without a doubt made for games though, and all the firmware updates are going to be made for gaming reasons. I can't say I would recommend it for LD use.

The pixel does look promising. I hope it's not a tinker fest (the 5x is very plug and play with great results).

Strongly agree with the third point. Older displays might be more compatible with some stuff but newer displays are better all around.

No comment. Definitely not commenting on anything in regards to those pics.

therussian wrote:
I refuse to get in to 4K TV's because all of them are the so called Smart TV type which I hate with a passion. I am buying a display to connect stuff to it I don't want to have a crappy computer build in that mainly focuses on flooding you with adverts.


This is a big part of why I went with a projector.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2021, 01:39 
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gypsy wrote:
therussian wrote:
I refuse to get in to 4K TV's because all of them are the so called Smart TV type which I hate with a passion. I am buying a display to connect stuff to it I don't want to have a crappy computer build in that mainly focuses on flooding you with adverts.


This is a big part of why I went with a projector.


Thx for this, I don't need to fight with my wife on getting a larger TV, she always wants one when we are shopping at wallyworld.
I think I'm the only male or person who doesn't want a larger TV but would rather stick with something smaller :wtf:
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2021, 02:18 
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For one space I actually had to get a monitor instead of a tv because all the tvs at the size I needed (24'') sucked.

The projector was mostly about wanting something for 4K. I did finally make some black out curtains so I can use the projector in the day time.

I probably have more displays than is "normal". Mainly because there is no "perfect" display for all types of content. Yes Crusher Joe and Bubblegum Crisis look amazing on the projector, old dot crawl dvds do not.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2021, 13:45 
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rcarlson wrote:
Tasuke, please, please, please play those old games at 4:3. Those screenshots are going to give me nightmares.
[/quote]

Wow, does it truly look that ghastly?!? i guess i'm just not a true Cinema buff...
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2021, 15:03 
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tasuke wrote:
rcarlson wrote:
Tasuke, please, please, please play those old games at 4:3. Those screenshots are going to give me nightmares.


Wow, does it truly look that ghastly?!? i guess i'm just not a true Cinema buff...[/quote]

Worse than ghastly.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2021, 15:59 
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tasuke wrote:
rcarlson wrote:
Tasuke, please, please, please play those old games at 4:3. Those screenshots are going to give me nightmares.


Wow, does it truly look that ghastly?!? i guess i'm just not a true Cinema buff...[/quote]

YOU ALREADY MADE ALMOST THIS EXACT POST THE LAST TIME YOU POSTED THE SAME WALL OF PHOTOS.

At least take new photos. The forum does not need anyone making identical posts and then identical replies to the identical comments, over and over again for years.

As I said LAST TIME. You’re reading a book upside down, someone comments. “Is it that ghastly!?” you say? No. It’s not ghastly, it’s just wrong. Images optically stretched insult the art. Even if it somehow looked better (less ghastly, I guess) it would still be wrong because that’s not what the actual source looks like.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2021, 18:16 
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I had to move from my CRT to a new tv not long ago, I snagged a open box NEC LFD. its more or less a high end PC monitor but in TV size. Seems that LFD have far better specs then TVs, worth looking into if you don't need a OTA tuner.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 01:33 
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thanks every one for the tips. I will not buy the RT 5X for $300 , just too much money. What are my options if the TV I choose has HDMI only inputs?

any tips on which to choose between OLEDS, QLEDS, LED?

@tasuke

thanks I appreciate sharing the images, they look crisp. Out of all the brands, Sanyo... huh... what do you know I guess.

jadefalcon wrote:
I had to move from my CRT to a new tv not long ago, I snagged a open box NEC LFD. its more or less a high end PC monitor but in TV size. Seems that LFD have far better specs then TVs, worth looking into if you don't need a OTA tuner.


Whats the difference between TV and a PC monitor? I heard PC has higher refresh rate and thats all I know. As for OTA, I thought this is as dead as B&W tv. Everyone moved to some sort of a tv box and an HDMI out to go into the TV.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 02:17 
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Monitors don't have tv tuners in them, so you can't get tv channels in but if you don't watch tv that isn't an issue of course. So it depends on your use case. Monitors are typically smaller as well. You can get bigger ones as jadefalcon mentioned they are "large format displays" for businesses mainly.

If you are going to get something with only HDMI input you will need another device in your chain to use things that don't have HDMI outputs if you are planning to use any. I haven't looked at the used video processor market in awhile since I already have too many. Old Faroudja units I remember there being cheaper options than Lumagen or the higher end DVDOs (I wouldn't recommend the lower tier DVDOs unless they are really cheap) but I can't speak to the quality of Faroudja as I don't have any experience with that brand. If you get a really nice tv it's going to be better than the processor anyway so you could just try to go for something cheap and pass it through to let the TV do the heavy lifting.

I am far from an expert on this though. There are some other users here that know much more, like Substance iirc.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 02:49 
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gypsy wrote:
Monitors don't have tv tuners in them, so you can't get tv channels in but if you don't watch tv that isn't an issue of course. So it depends on your use case. Monitors are typically smaller as well. You can get bigger ones as jadefalcon mentioned they are "large format displays" for businesses mainly.
.

Most if not all cables companies require a cable box these days so it doesn’t really matter unless if you want to watch OTA tv.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 02:52 
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rch928 wrote:
Whats the difference between TV and a PC monitor? I heard PC has higher refresh rate and thats all I know. As for OTA, I thought this is as dead as B&W tv. Everyone moved to some sort of a tv box and an HDMI out to go into the TV.

Basically no tunner and far better pictures (color and contrast) with a far better build quality. Think of them as a really big high end pc monitor.
They also tend to scale lower resolution video far better. They also tend to do a lot of things most tvs never would. Mine has a built in amp and can watch videos saved on a file server and also has the option of adding a raspberry pie SOC computer in it. Pretty cool stuff. I mostly bought it for the far better picture vs a regular tv.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 04:47 
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If what you want is good video from LD/VHS, buy a Sony. If you want to collect black boxes buy something cheap.

My oldest Sony is a wide HD CRT, Wega from 2004. My newest is a 2017 4K Bravia. I have an LCD that is about half way in between them in age. LD looks best on the newest and the oldest one, all are better than store brand garbage. Cheap out at your peril, a decent TV is $700 for 50”. If all you care about is price, size, etc then prepare to waste money on an ever growing stack of line doubler doodads. First you’ll buy the no brand stuff from eBay, you’ll think it looks good, then you’ll have doubts. You’ll then buy a used example of something once highly thought of but ultimately decide it has some flaw or it’s picky about something or it dies after you have it a week. You’ll eventually get something that works but total money spent will be more than a name brand TV.

How many times have we seen this on this forum? Uncountable.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 14:33 
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signofzeta wrote:
If what you want is good video from LD/VHS, buy a Sony. If you want to collect black boxes buy something cheap.

Buying solely by brand is a bad idea, Sony has high end as well as lower end products. Still if you were to be buying solely by brand Sony is one to go for, there low end is mid range compared to most other brands.
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 Post subject: Re: Any recommendations or warnings about new TVs?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 14:57 
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I’m not being brand loyal. Honestly when it comes to Sony as a company I have a mountain of complaints. Much of what they have sold me over the years was fancy garbage. I’m only pimping Sony because it’s what I know but Sony has never had a bad period when it comes to TV. They have always been leaders and they were never really into the $99 market. All the Sonys I’m talking about were at least medium end. The XBR960 was top tier, $2500 new. The 4K was $800, peanuts by comparison. I’m not recommending a brand as much as I’m recommending something REAL from a company that does real R&D instead of a store brand with a name on it that won’t exist in two years because it’s not from a TV company but rather a parts aggregator that builds TVs.

If Pioneer and Panasonic were still going like they used to I wouldn’t name a brand at all. I only mention Sony because they still exist in some recognizable form. They also still make good Walkmans. Most of the electronics business has been taken over by eBay level crapola thanks to people valuing TVs only by the inch for 20 years. Then they come here and ask how to make LD look good on something that can’t even zoom properly or has no SD inputs. It’s amazing what an afterthought anything but size is to a lot of people. Messing around with Kia/Hyundai level garbage when they should have just paid full price for the Toyota...
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