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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 11:46 
Jedi Knight
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substance wrote:
rein-o wrote:
Well my wife just read about the backlash against the Kondo downsizing and now people are starting the clutter movement.
So while media may be downsized now it will be turned around with the clutter movement.

All the stuff I own that I like sparks joy when I touch it.



Not sure what you mean by this.


I think he means people will rebel and start filling their closets again, presumably with media.

Not being one to buy into conventional narratives...I’ll point out that this was never unpopular and the entire distinction is imaginary.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 16:56 
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Which part kondo or clutter?

When people stop doing streaming and would rather clutter their house with stuff it will show.

I've been selling a lot of clutter stuff on ebay so I know that its back in a bad way.
But this isn't just about streaming movies or music, this is about real life, people need stuff in the kitchen, living spaces, tools etc.

Substance, how much stuff did you move that went right into your kitchen????
that is if you actually cook.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 17:56 
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Social media can make anything look like a wider trend. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow there have been, are, and will be chronic clutter-ers, habitual throwers-away, and everyone in between.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 18:03 
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 21:48 
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signofzeta wrote:
substance wrote:
My local Best Buy reduced its media section to one self this year. I asked the associate yesterday why so few movies and doesn’t seem to get restocked much. He said they are phasing out all the physical media by July as the sales are way down. I visited 2 other locations and they have about the same amount of movies on display. It is sad to say this but I think Walmart is now the largest physical media reseller in the US.


Best Buy also stopped carrying CDs but has loads of $45 records that we already have on CDs. Meanwhile CD continues to be available elsewhere, not for every artist, but for most. Best Buy, frankly, has never been worse. It’s like an indoor flea market at this point where every vendor is individually more important than the store. Oh, you want SONY, headphone? “Those are way over there now because everyone gets their own section.”

Walmart has been a better place to buy movies than Best Buy for at least five years.


I can't even remember the last time I bought something from BB. It's been years. I lost a ton of interest once they stopped carrying anime. Their prices mostly suck anyway. No, I would not like to be upcharged for this cable or bit of hardware.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 22:47 
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The one near me used to be really great because they had a camera section and you could just walk in on a whim and buy a $300 lens if you wanted and if it was defective, exchange it that day. That actually happened to me and it was handy, that’s why I brought it up. Now the same place has this weird hobbit hole in the back where all the real AV ish is and the rest of the joint looks like an airport version of an outlet mall.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 17 May 2021, 23:21 
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https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/17/22440090/apple-music-lossless-audio-dolby-atmos-support-audio

Finally Apple does lossless audio on Apple Music (formerly iTunes) and no increase in price on the monthly subscription. Ironically, all their headphones and speakers are Bluetooth connected therefore can’t do lossless. Nevertheless this is a good news. Do you think Apple will do the unthinkable and offer lossless video on Apple TV?
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 18 May 2021, 00:02 
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All I know is that apple won't get any of my money.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 18 May 2021, 00:56 
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substance wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/17/22440090/apple-music-lossless-audio-dolby-atmos-support-audio

Finally Apple does lossless audio on Apple Music (formerly iTunes) and no increase in price on the monthly subscription. Ironically, all their headphones and speakers are Bluetooth connected therefore can’t do lossless. Nevertheless this is a good news. Do you think Apple will do the unthinkable and offer lossless video on Apple TV?

Lossless video? No chance in hell from Apple or any other company. Lossless audio is a drop in the bucket compared to lossless video. Even at SD, lossless digital video (even compressed) takes up a prohibitive amount of space/bandwidth for the consumer market. And honestly, it's not even worth it. HEVC and x265 work great in the right hands.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 18 May 2021, 08:27 
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rein-o wrote:
All I know is that apple won't get any of my money.


Same.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0 ... reland-eu/
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 18 May 2021, 10:15 
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teddanson wrote:
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Funny thing, I was just thinking of this exact same quote in the exact same context the other day, only I'd worded it as "You'll have to pry my DVDs from my cold dead hands!"
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 18 May 2021, 10:47 
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substance wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/17/22440090/apple-music-lossless-audio-dolby-atmos-support-audio

Finally Apple does lossless audio on Apple Music (formerly iTunes) and no increase in price on the monthly subscription. Ironically, all their headphones and speakers are Bluetooth connected therefore can’t do lossless. Nevertheless this is a good news. Do you think Apple will do the unthinkable and offer lossless video on Apple TV?


They are doing this for free because they won’t want to make a big deal about it...which they shouldn’t. They don’t sell any hardware than justify lossless audio so half of the word is already accusing it of being a rip off and the other half is imagining benefits they can’t actually hear. They’ve been in this stalemate for years. They’re screwed either way. Expect new headphones soon.

Sony has invested quite a bit into various high res Bluetooth headphone setups to pair with their Walkman line. The Bluetooth spec is always evolving...or so they say, I use a wire for my headphones unless I’m in the car and in any car things like “lossless” couldn’t be less important.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 18 May 2021, 20:38 
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rcarlson wrote:
substance wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/17/22440090/apple-music-lossless-audio-dolby-atmos-support-audio

Finally Apple does lossless audio on Apple Music (formerly iTunes) and no increase in price on the monthly subscription. Ironically, all their headphones and speakers are Bluetooth connected therefore can’t do lossless. Nevertheless this is a good news. Do you think Apple will do the unthinkable and offer lossless video on Apple TV?

Lossless video? No chance in hell from Apple or any other company. Lossless audio is a drop in the bucket compared to lossless video. Even at SD, lossless digital video (even compressed) takes up a prohibitive amount of space/bandwidth for the consumer market. And honestly, it's not even worth it. HEVC and x265 work great in the right hands.



You are right. I need to rephrase this. I meant lossless from the disc version. I don’t mean the raw 10 bit or so data.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 23 May 2021, 13:00 
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Even in the industry, lossless video is rarely used. ProRes 422HQ is pretty much fine for everything except heavy VFX and long-term storage. You really cannot see the difference between that and uncompressed or lossless codecs.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 23 May 2021, 14:44 
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A film print is technically lossless. :D
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2021, 17:54 
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I have made some friends at Kaleidescape(Kscape)in the past few months. I have a better understanding of their systems now. Here are Some updates to what I have already mentioned here.

Kscape gets their content from the studios’ digital content divisions, not the disc divisions. This is the reason why there are over 400 movies on 4K from Kscape that have no 4K disc releases.

Also, Kscape digital downloads aren’t exactly the ripped disc files. They get the mezzanine data then they make their own encodes for their platform. Kscape doesn’t need to confine the file sizes to 25GB, 50GB, 66GB and 100 GB disc sizes. For example, Disney is notorious for trying to fit all their movies on to a 66GB disc. 4K disc version of Solo is on a 66GB disc but the Kscape download version is nearly 80GB.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 08:42 
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On the same media/digital/preservation subject, the Irish Times do mention the efforts to save the Domesday Project via LaserDisc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/innovation-preserving-the-digital-future-of-the-forgotten-format-1.4704723

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 14:20 
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takeshi666 wrote:
A film print is technically lossless. :D


Only if you’re watching camera negatives. Every stage past that adds considerable generational loss. First they triplicate the negative and store the originals. Then they make and edit with those, then they use another set of copies to build the cleanest copy possible based on the edit. Then they have a master they can use for duplication but usually it’s copied onto new masters which will then be used for duplication, usually the highest speed (lowest quantity) stuff is used for the final prints that see actual theaters. The theater then takes all the reel and builds them onto a huge spool, more handling, and then runs it through a hot fast projector machine eight times a day until you come in to see it.

Film is the lossiest format on earth, mostly because of how many generations it’s been though just to make a print.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2022, 23:57 
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Oh what a journey! In less than one year, I went from a single 6TB Strato server/player combo(sold now) to 2 dedicated 72TB servers, 4 disc servers with 320 discs each and 2 dedicated players. I just realized, I haven’t put a single hour on my BD and LD players in the meantime.

I realize these are very expensive. It was an uphill challenge to get the wife approval factor (WAF). Now she says this was the best money we have ever spent in home theater (although this was by far the most expensive electronics purchase ever).

We can browse our 3500+ individual title (or over 10,000 versions) library in its awesome interface, call any film (or TV episode) in bit identical to disc quality(or better) to the the screen with one click. The Kaleidescape system will immediately jump to the beginning of the film, skipping all previous and warnings, dim the room’s lights during the studio intro and completely turn them off the second the actual film begins. If you pause the film or during the end credits at the end, it will bring the lights to dim again. It can also control projector screen masking per each film’s aspect ratio, bring theater seats to recliner position during play, and even adjust room temperature if you prefer it more chill while watching films.

The convenience matched with the quality on its own league is giving absolutely no chance to discs or streaming. The only argument is the ridiculous cost. I am very fortunate to be able to afford this system. Somebody(me) needs to take on the very high early* adopters fee so in the near future these things can be more reasonable. I sincerely hope this market grows and more reasonable alternatives are offered in the future. Until then if anyone can afford it, I highly recommend it.

*Kaleidescape has been around since 2001. While their content store was still open, the company has closed doors for one week in 2016 for reorg and change of leadership. Several websites announced this as bankruptcy. Now that I have made some friends in Kaleidescape, I can confirm this wasn’t true. There was never an official announcement as such. Currently, they are selling multiple thousand hardware units per month and their content store is bringing in $150k/month revenue. These figures are much higher than previous years.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives for physical media when it’s no longer prod
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 02:01 
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substance wrote:
The convenience matched with the quality on its own league is giving absolutely no chance to discs or streaming. The only argument is the ridiculous cost. I am very fortunate to be able to afford this system. Somebody(me) needs to take on the very high early* adopters fee so in the near future these things can be more reasonable. I sincerely hope this market grows and more reasonable alternatives are offered in the future. Until then if anyone can afford it, I highly recommend it.


... or live in a place where you have such amount of bandwidth to use up for 4K movies.

In Japan residential fiber has to be shared with other users (you can feel you're not alone on evenings or public holidays).
If I download too aggressively, the ISP will throttle for ~1h (I set 500KBps DL, it seems to be just under their radar).
This is the $40/month "premium fiber access" plan.

Only companies get better b/w.

It would take a LONG time to download anything that is not located locally!

Your 80GB SOLO would take about 45h to download.

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