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 Post subject: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 12:46 
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I decided to start a whole new thread for this so we (and by we I mean mostly myself probably) can stop derailing other, unrelated threads with it.

signofzeta wrote:
I bought one of those pirate Optimus Primes on eBay last year. It has some issues. The stickers don’t stick. The rubber has slightly perished in the box. Roller’s little rubber tube was completely shot. I made a few repairs and it’s a really solid Prime for $38, especially when you consider Hasbro is selling a cab-only version at Walmart for $50! The box tried hard but was laughably incorrect so I pitched it.

What I can’t quite figure out is why there aren’t more of the things out there, particularly KOs of rare guys like Twincast which would be easily done and could hardly be worse than the official one.

I bought the New Year Convoy reissue, I think it was originally released in 2002? He comes with both versions of his gun along with a die cast matrix and a redeco of the Action Master figure. I actually took him out of the box a while back after learning that the rubber hose is so prone to crumbling to treat it but nope, it was too late, the darn thing just snapped into pieces. I honestly never liked that thing anyway, it was so stiff that if you actually tried to put the nozzle in Prime's hand, he'd end up lifting Roller or whatever the other end was attached to with it, I hope one of those reproductions on ebay is made of more pliable material.

rein-o wrote:
Now on another note, the Roller I had when original had hard plastic wheels that snapped onto the car, did they change the design later on?

I think the only difference Roller has had over the years is the colours, I think even the original issue had variants, but I forget what they were. I want to say silver, but I think that might've been a reissue thing.

rein-o wrote:
The one I remember most was the Omega Supreme, found a boot of that one, the art on the box was exactly like the original release of the toy.
Wow they were really pulling at straws to find any robot to toss into that line after the first line launched and they exhausted Takara, going to some rando
Japanese toy company for Shockwave was a real stretch and that was bootlegged so many times its not even funny, I think Radioshack even had a boot of that one.

I don't think the Shackwave was a bootleg, I think the company making the original was just licensing it left and right. There's definitely actual bootlegs of it too. And the original version of what became Omega Supreme shows up in one of those cornball Godfrey Ho ninja movies.

I'm guessing they were reluctant to pull any more of those straws because Sky Lynx was the last of the non-Takara molds they picked, and they released him around the same time they started pushing all-new molds with the movie characters in '86.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 14:24 
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None of them were bootleg to begin with, but some of them were really crappy if they didn't come from Takara.
Shockwave was one that the bootleg was actually stronger and had better parts than the official TF one.

I remember seeing them as a kid broken.
Also there were a few variations of the bootleg, I think they had different hands and laser arm?

Yeah, I love the movie but the rest just pushed it away for me.
Those pretenders, man I couldn't even buy them as investments to sell years later for stupid money, they were really baddddd.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 16:20 
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rein-o wrote:
Also there were a few variations of the bootleg, I think they had different hands and laser arm?

Yeah, I love the movie but the rest just pushed it away for me.
Those pretenders, man I couldn't even buy them as investments to sell years later for stupid money, they were really baddddd.

I recall seeing one KO Shockwave that had red or orange transparent plastic parts and I think the muzzle piece had wings on it or something? You could've feasibly used Shackwave as a stand-in for the real Shockwave because it had similar colours but not this thing. Not unless you were desperate.

Funny thing is, those Pretenders are worth a lot of money too these days, probably because the shells were cast entirely in a single colour and then painted so they're difficult to find without a lot of paint wear, and if it's a character that's actually popular because of the comic, like Bludgeon or Thunderwing, they cost even more. The '88 lineup was released in two waves, and the second wave was never released in Japan or Europe so they tend to cost more as well.

I kind of tend to gravitate towards the post-movie toys, largely because I got into the franchise so late and I'd find plenty of Pretenders and various Masters, not to mention the Marvel comic, in flea markets and secondhand stores. Unfortunately I passed most of those up back then because I didn't know even half as much about them as I do now and I could tell many of them were missing parts - which could've been in some other box but I wouldn't have known what was missing. Unfortunately because nearly none of them have been reissued, I'm stuck trying to find vintage ones which are a complete crapshoot because even if it looks nice in the photos, it could end up being a sad floppy mess which is almost as bad. I picked up a huge lot of Micromasters last year and over half of them have rusted pins and screws.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 17:36 
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IIRC Shockwave was an original creation from Korea. It had already toured the world officially and as a bootleg before it was made into a TF. Before you could buy a Shockwave at KMart you could buy it at Radio Shack as “robot laser gun” or something.

I’ve never seen a pirate Omega Supreme. That seems like a really dumb thing to pirate. It’s complicated and nobody likes it. Pirating Car Robot and Microman makes way more sense.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 17:58 
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I actually had to look up Omega Supreme's backstory and the original was named "Mechabot 1" and it was developed by ToyBox, the same company that made Sky Lynx, which I think was actually commissioned from them by Hasbro rather than being an existing design. I also learned that there actually is a KO of Omega Supreme and that's the one that's blue, red and chrome and that's the one that showed up in the Godfrey Ho movie "Ninja Terminator".

These weird international re-releases are one thing I don't think really exist anymore these days, I think toy companies usually just license the property outright rather than create something original around existing toys. The 90's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles subline "Mini-Mutants" utilized old Microman molds and I actually have the jet one and learning this explained so much, like why the hell the figures couldn't sit inside the cockpit properly. Both the jet and the Omega Supreme molds were released in the UK as Grandstand Convertors.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 22:26 
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I had an original Japanese shockwave but sold it about 10 years ago for money, more than LD money.
It was very hard to find but they did release it in Japan first.

Edit: took me some time as I forgot what the Japanese name was
but here is a great page with some cool info on Astro Magnum.

http://blog.kapowtoys.co.uk/g1-shockwave-and-mp-shockwave-comparison-with-quakewave-and-astro-magnum/


Last edited by rein-o on 03 May 2019, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 22:54 
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rein-o wrote:
I had an original Japanese shockwave but sold it about 10 years ago for money, more than LD money.
It was very hard to find but they did release it in Japan first.

I keep forgetting he actually did get a Japanese release, unlike pretty much every other non-Taraka toy.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 05 May 2019, 01:56 
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NEVER got Transformers toys at all. I had Jetfire because I knew what he really was...

Completely out of scale with each other. GI Joe and Star Wars was my thing.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 05 May 2019, 02:26 
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Scale was kind of an odd thing. Metroplex wasn't compatible with anything bigger than a minibot, while Fortress Maximus wasn't compatible with anything bigger than a Throttlebot...but the '84 Autobot cars work pretty well with him as well, despite having been phased out the year before, while his Headmaster comrades are way too big. Meanwhile Micromasters work with just about anything.

And speaking of Metroplex, the toy was the same height as Galvatron in robot mode. Probably the most egregious example of scaling issues within Transformers right there.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 05 May 2019, 03:38 
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I'll start spamming my figure acquisition pics in here now lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 07 May 2019, 17:57 
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When I was 10 or so my Mom managed to get me an import toy of what was known as Grimlock from the Transformers Dinobot line. Couldn't tell you if it was a knock off or of the Japanese original Diaclone lines, but when compared to my friends' US released Grimlock, we found it to be better. The import's sword was hard plastic and silver colored while the domestic was soft and malleable. Plus, spring in the import's gun shot the projectile like 4 feet, while the domestic barely shot the projectile 4 inches.

Wish I still had that thing. My cousin broke it and I threw it out after that.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 07 May 2019, 20:22 
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IIRC there was a safety issue with missiles on Micronaut stuff so after that I think Takara stuff had either no springs or massively weaker ones for the US.

The difference in swords could have just been the era it was made in. They change little things as time goes buy, like Yoda’s snake going from orange to brown.

Convoys often have longer stacks than Primes. That’s a specific safety thing and not a budget issue or anything like that.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 01:06 
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Sounds like it was the Diaclone version. I always found it interesting that one of the Dinobots, Swoop, was blue in the cartoon, as per his Diaclone toy, but the actual Transformers toy version of him was red.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 16:55 
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signofzeta wrote:
IIRC there was a safety issue with missiles on Micronaut stuff so after that I think Takara stuff had either no springs or massively weaker ones for the US.

The difference in swords could have just been the era it was made in. They change little things as time goes buy, like Yoda’s snake going from orange to brown.

Convoys often have longer stacks than Primes. That’s a specific safety thing and not a budget issue or anything like that.

I think it really depended on the company on whether they wanted to safety-fy their toys.

The original Boba Fett figure from Kenner was supposed to have a launching rocket in his backpack, but fears of kids shooting each other's eyes out made them cancel that version.

Hasbro probably felt the same way when they localized some of the Takara toys.

Then you have the Rambo toy line from the 80s by Coleco, who didn't seem to give a f**k, proudly showing off how their toys should missiles and swords and crap all over the place . . .



As far as the sword goes for the Dnobots, I think it was another safety-fying measure by Hasbro since it wasn't only soft, but colored orange. I think they wanted to make sure that it wasn't mistaken for a real blade!!!
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 16:58 
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takeshi666 wrote:
Sounds like it was the Diaclone version. I always found it interesting that one of the Dinobots, Swoop, was blue in the cartoon, as per his Diaclone toy, but the actual Transformers toy version of him was red.

Yeah, they mixed up the colors for Rumble and Frenzy (Soundwave's cartridge bots) too. In the cartoon Rumble is blue and Frenzy (when they finally showed him) was black and red, but the colors are switched for the toys.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 21:30 
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elahrairrah wrote:
The original Boba Fett figure from Kenner was supposed to have a launching rocket in his backpack, but fears of kids shooting each other's eyes out made them cancel that version.

Hasbro probably felt the same way when they localized some of the Takara toys.

Then you have the Rambo toy line from the 80s by Coleco, who didn't seem to give a f**k, proudly showing off how their toys should missiles and swords and crap all over the place . . .

The thing about the so called toy safety laws is that they're pretty much like the MPAA in the sense that you don't actually have to abide by them, but they're merely standardized tests meant to prevent toy companies following those "laws" from getting sued by angry parents in case little Timmy still somehow manages to snort a four inch long plastic missile up his windpipe. However, again much like the MPAA, actually passing those tests also guarantees distribution so it's more financially sensible for toy companies to actually meet them. Toys aimed at adult collectors are not dependent on traditional, child-oriented toy distribution and marketing so they have no incentive to abide by those rules anyway.

It's still kind of interesting to see how something like launching projectiles changed over the years; in the late 70's, I think it was a Battlestar Galactica toy that got some little kid killed (or almost killed) because they got the projectile stuck in their throat, so through the 80's, toys like Transformers took the Diaclone launchers and either weakened them or eliminated them entirely, but in the 90's they just made the projectiles gigantic instead, allowing them to put some potent springs into those launchers.

Ultimately all of this just means I'm much more inclined to pay premium to buy a Japanese reissue of a G1 Transformers toy than it's Hasbro counterpart because they'll be closer to their original counterparts rather than some entirely new toy safety nonsense. A Takara reissue of Prowl has chrome accessories and working projectiles while the Hasbro version has the latter nixed entirely and the accessories are just flat black plastic.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 22:01 
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I’m pretty sure the Micronaut thing was a specific thing, probably choking I’d assume. After a time the missiles got too HUGE to choke on.

There is a thing, I can’t remember what it’s called, but it’s a sort of go-no-go gauge for kids toys. If something can fit in it then it can choke a kid. Hound’s shoulder missile is like child assassination tool with the spring. Anyone who makes a toy and ignores guidelines like that is asking to be sued to the tune of whatever the company is worth. Things that break off super easy (Prime’s stacks) that will fit in the gauge will also not be smart to sell. Even if you literally hate kids and want them to die (I’ve known a few adult toy collectors...) then you still wouldn’t do it because your company wouldn’t exist in a year.

When TFs hit the scene I’m pretty sure Takara had been to court already, or Mego, for the Micronaut thing, and were probably paying very close attention to safety.

Full disclosure, I have nothing to cite for any of this. Its just vague memories from childhood.



BONUS: TF fans who get too hung up on animation accuracy are the dumbest tools in the bag. It was an ad to sell toys. An ad. A bad one even. It also came later so any “flaws” in “animation accuracy”, a least with G1, are the flaws of the terrible cartoon and not the genuinely genius toys they were based on. Diaclone and Microman are so great they don’t need a crappy snow, IMO.

My first TF was a red Bumblebee and I was 11 when TF hit the US so maybe that formed my attitude about mouth breathing fans too lazy to properly study the thing they spend $10,000 a year being a fan of. Maybe not.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 22:25 
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takeshi666 wrote:
elahrairrah wrote:
The original Boba Fett figure from Kenner was supposed to have a launching rocket in his backpack, but fears of kids shooting each other's eyes out made them cancel that version.

Hasbro probably felt the same way when they localized some of the Takara toys.

Then you have the Rambo toy line from the 80s by Coleco, who didn't seem to give a f**k, proudly showing off how their toys should missiles and swords and crap all over the place . . .

The thing about the so called toy safety laws is that they're pretty much like the MPAA in the sense that you don't actually have to abide by them, but they're merely standardized tests meant to prevent toy companies following those "laws" from getting sued by angry parents in case little Timmy still somehow manages to snort a four inch long plastic missile up his windpipe. However, again much like the MPAA, actually passing those tests also guarantees distribution so it's more financially sensible for toy companies to actually meet them. Toys aimed at adult collectors are not dependent on traditional, child-oriented toy distribution and marketing so they have no incentive to abide by those rules anyway.

It's still kind of interesting to see how something like launching projectiles changed over the years; in the late 70's, I think it was a Battlestar Galactica toy that got some little kid killed (or almost killed) because they got the projectile stuck in their throat, so through the 80's, toys like Transformers took the Diaclone launchers and either weakened them or eliminated them entirely, but in the 90's they just made the projectiles gigantic instead, allowing them to put some potent springs into those launchers.

Ultimately all of this just means I'm much more inclined to pay premium to buy a Japanese reissue of a G1 Transformers toy than it's Hasbro counterpart because they'll be closer to their original counterparts rather than some entirely new toy safety nonsense. A Takara reissue of Prowl has chrome accessories and working projectiles while the Hasbro version has the latter nixed entirely and the accessories are just flat black plastic.


Hasbro reissues/versions can be extremely bad. Changing the names. Nuts pricing. Horrible horrible box art. Oh how they suck. The “battle damage” on the US MP-01 is just...it’s a crime, really. They basically took one of the single greatest toys ever and smeared their feces all over it and thought that made it better.

That being said, while I never had a US Dinobot I’m pretty sure they had all their chrome back in the day. The colored bendy swords you guys are talking about are probably something they came up with like plastic feet on Hot Rod or turning rubber tires to cheap plastic on Metroplex. You have to get there day one, even in 1984. :) The JDM stuff is usually much better. Longer stacks, more chrome, more die cast. They barely even charge more too and it’s all made in China now away so I can’t really explain Hasbro’s habits.

I buy my robot toys very very slowly. Maybe one or two a year. I just get stuff I really like, never wasting money on Bayformers or “Rodimus Majors” or trailer-less Primes. Sometimes I buy something cheap like that Seaspray that came out a few years ago and the quick changing Blur but if it’s more than $20 I’d rather save for something vintage or a SoC. You can get a enameled nickel-plated Mazinger for what it costs a hardcore TF fan to buy a wave of Transformers: Animated or whatever and that crap isn’t even work taking out of the box.

If you buy the crap they’ll never waste time building the good stuff, that’s the truth. When you buy crap, in any marketplace, you are displacing the superior product. Never forget that. Most people on this forum probably already understand that.
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 23:35 
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Trailerless Prime is definitely a new low.

Why couldn't they had at least reissued some minibots we haven't had already? We already got most of the '85 Minibots in the bookbox collection and the '86 ones in the Encore line, but outside of Bumblebee, we haven't seen any of the '84 ones. Where's Cliffjumper? Where's Windcharger? Or Brawn? Or Beachcomber?
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 Post subject: Re: Toy collecting
PostPosted: 09 May 2019, 00:00 
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From what I remember reading before the interweb the missile issues ended with the Mattel Cylon ship from Battlestar Galactica, this is the toy that had the issues.
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