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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 26 Sep 2020, 16:17 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5968 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1273 times Been thanked: 1089 times
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gypsy wrote: Yeah that YYH game on PCE is kinda weird. I've played it a fair bit. If you decide you to play the DBZ one, which is sort of the sequel and more refined, I can provide tips.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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jd213
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 28 Sep 2020, 03:48 |
Serious fan |
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Joined: 13 Jul 2012, 10:29 Posts: 160 Location: Japan Has thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 35 times
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tasuke wrote: i really don't know what SEGA was thinking with the S-VIDEO-type mini-DIN A/V OUTPUT they implemented for the SATURN. i mean, if you don't make doubly sure that the connection is as firm and tight as you can possibly get it, then you get audio infected with this most infernal grounding buzz... I was able to mostly eliminate the buzzing by getting a better cable (Solaris Japan JP21, but Retro Gaming Cables or Retro Access cables would probably be better for you). There's also a way to mod Saturns for SPDIF output.
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elahrairrah
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 28 Sep 2020, 20:48 |
Young Padawan |
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38 Posts: 3415 Location: Pennsylvania Has thanked: 76 times Been thanked: 140 times
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tasuke wrote: i really don't know what SEGA was thinking with the S-VIDEO-type mini-DIN A/V OUTPUT they implemented for the SATURN. i mean, if you don't make doubly sure that the connection is as firm and tight as you can possibly get it, then you get audio infected with this most infernal grounding buzz... I did wonder about placing the A/V out so close to the power connector, but surprisingly I never get any EM buzz. Only issues I have with the A/V out is that I suppose some of the pins aren't always connecting properly for the component cable I got for it. Just takes a little gentle jostling to get the connections right and the colors to show properly. One odd thing I did find out about the component cable that I have--I had thought that the engineer who made these would have somehow used the same pins as an RGB-21 connector as component is somewhat easy to convert to RGB (and no, if you didn't already know, Component is NOT the same as VGA/RGB--I know MANY people who kept parroting over and over in the late 90s, early 00's that Component is the same as VGA/RGB only to get into shouting matches when I tried to tell them it isn't.) But it appears that this might not be the case. For Vampire Savior, there is a hidden option menu, accessible when you finish the game without continuing) that has a lot of cool options (probably most important for importers is changing the language from Japanese to English) including changing the video output from "S-Video" to "RGB." Using an S-Video cable, I never noticed any difference in the quality of the picture switching between the two, I figured you actually needed an RGB-21 cable (which I do have, but never tried to convert it to anything else to actually use it.) So I tried to see if it made any difference when using Component. It did, but not completely in a good way. The colors were a bit more vivid with that setting through the component cables, but the "screendoor effect" that the Saturn is somewhat known for with its lack of being able to render transparencies was happening A LOT, even in spots where there weren't any transparencies. Most notably in the life guages on screen, can you see the effect. I took some quick and dirty pics that I'll upload in a little bit so you can see the difference. So it appears this engineer may have used different pins on the Saturn A/V output to make this connector rather than what RGB-21 uses or just that an RGB21 signal (at least in this game in particular) doesn't convert easily to Component. Now I really want to try some means of converting RGB21 from the Saturn to component or HDMI to see more differences!
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 28 Sep 2020, 20:56 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5968 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1273 times Been thanked: 1089 times
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...no. I don’t know what you’re seeing on your end specifically but Vampire Savior has the “screen door effect” on the text boxes and such because the CPS2 arcade board doesn’t do transparencies. The Saturn version of the game is doing the same thing. It’s supposed to be like that, try playing it in an emulator or whatever. Or check this website: http://retrovania-vgjunk.blogspot.com/2 ... e.html?m=1Those pics aren’t scaled correctly which makes the mesh even more perfectly visible. You’ll see this in Street Fighter Zero, Pocket Fighter, lots of 16-bit games and many CPS2 ones. Re: “component” ... Both RGB and YPbPr are “component”. YPbPr is just more efficient so it’s used for pro tapes and DVDs. In theory they offer as much information as the other but there is slightly more to playing back a YPbPr signal so results may vary. Neither are “composite” (because they aren’t built of multiple signals). In common parlance, for sure, people know component YPbPr as “component” and RGB as “RGB” but really they are both component and that may matter when changing settings in equipment.
Last edited by signofzeta on 28 Sep 2020, 21:04, edited 1 time in total.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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elahrairrah
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 28 Sep 2020, 21:03 |
Young Padawan |
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38 Posts: 3415 Location: Pennsylvania Has thanked: 76 times Been thanked: 140 times
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So here's what I'm talking about. Look to the life gauges in both shots (sorry I didn't take pics of the same screens and the blurriness, I started a different game with a different character and pausing the game darkens the screen, so I had to take these while the game was running): S-VIDEO SETTING RGB SETTING As you can see, the S-Video setting has no screendoor effect in the life gauge, but the RGB setting does. Weird how that turns out! Wonder if that will have the same effect through an actual RGB connection?
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elahrairrah
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 28 Sep 2020, 21:08 |
Young Padawan |
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38 Posts: 3415 Location: Pennsylvania Has thanked: 76 times Been thanked: 140 times
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signofzeta wrote: I think there is a “clean pause” feature for that game. Maybe not. I know Vampire Hunter had it. Yeah, Vampire Hunter/Night Warriors had it, but I've never seen one for Vampire Savior
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elahrairrah
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 28 Sep 2020, 21:25 |
Young Padawan |
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38 Posts: 3415 Location: Pennsylvania Has thanked: 76 times Been thanked: 140 times
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signofzeta wrote: ...no. I don’t know what you’re seeing on your end specifically but Vampire Savior has the “screen door effect” on the text boxes and such because the CPS2 arcade board doesn’t do transparencies. The Saturn version of the game is doing the same thing. It’s supposed to be like that, try playing it in an emulator or whatever. Or check this website: http://retrovania-vgjunk.blogspot.com/2 ... e.html?m=1Those pics aren’t scaled correctly which makes the mesh even more perfectly visible. You’ll see this in Street Fighter Zero, Pocket Fighter, lots of 16-bit games and many CPS2 ones. That's good to know that the CPS2 wasn't capable of transparencies, but doesn't explain the results I saw. signofzeta wrote: Re: “component” ...
Both RGB and YPbPr are “component”. YPbPr is just more efficient so it’s used for pro tapes and DVDs. In theory they offer as much information as the other but there is slightly more to playing back a YPbPr signal so results may vary. Neither are “composite” (because they aren’t built of multiple signals). In common parlance, for sure, people know component YPbPr as “component” and RGB as “RGB” but really they are both component and that may matter when changing settings in equipment. RGB and YPbPr are still different though. RGB is just that, Red, Green, Blue. YPbPr is a split of the video into a luminance channel and two color channels. I guess I should have specified when I was referring to "Component" was in terms of component video when using the red, green and blue RCA connectors as those only use YPbPr video (at least for consumer equipment.)
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deadlegion
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 12:54 |
Advanced fan |
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Joined: 02 Aug 2019, 02:29 Posts: 660 Location: Australia Has thanked: 52 times Been thanked: 85 times
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therussian wrote: Guys can you advice me on the following.
I purchased ones of those import adapters for my brother's Saturn ( see picture ). First it didn't start at all. After cleaning the pins with alcohol. It comes on but freezes at the loading screen and doesn't do anything at all. Is this somehow fixable ? Clean the pins with alcohol again. Go over them a few times. Then use a dry cotton tip (aka q-tip) to buff them dry and shiny. Try using it again.
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tasuke
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Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 15:03 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 03 Aug 2013, 17:32 Posts: 1571 Location: OREGON, U.S. Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 135 times
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tasuke wrote: the SATURN was my first 32-bit console, the SONY PS1 coming a year or two later for me. i didn't amass many games for it, but, as a budding Anime fan at the time, i heard about WD's upcoming MKR game, and, even then, it was seen as likely the final U.S. SEGA SATURN release. i jumped all over it, of course, and it single-handedly made owning an overall failure of a games platform such as the SATURN well worth the trouble. 20+ years later, i still have my original babied, fully functional SATURN, a GAME SHARK to defeat the regional lockouts, as well as both the U.S. WORKING DESIGNS and JPN SEGA editions of MKR; screencaps of same game on a 46" LCD HD display (2011 BEST BUY "INSIGNIA" SANYO OEM)
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