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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 21:14 
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retrolaservision wrote:
Don't know if I'm posting this to the wrong place or not. But anyway.

I recently bought a Saturn for myself. Finally having enough of the 32x stopgap. (And definitely not because I'm afraid Segata Sanshiro is gonna kill me if I don't have one.)

Anyway the first game I'm planning on getting for it is definitely Virtua Fighter 2. The next game after that is going to be Tomb Raider. After that I'm planning on getting one of those action replay carts to make my Saturn region free. (the model that I got is the second European one)

Anyway what games should I be looking to get after that? Personally I'm mostly interested in fighting games (both 2d and 3d) and racing games. Off course I'm not just going to stick to those to genres.

Anyway hopefully I don't look like a dummy that posted this to the wrong place.


Are you planning to buy games only and not burn? This matters for my recommendations because while games like Elevator Action Returns are awesome, they are also rather pricey now.

Some that I recommend that should still be reasonable: Puzzle Bobble 3, Digital Pinball Necronomicon, Digital Pinball: Last Gladiators, Twinbee Deluxe Pack, Daytona USA, Sega Rally, Outrun, Touge King of Spirits, Drift King 97, Road Rash, Vampire Hunter, Vampire Savior, X-Men vs. Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter, King of Fighters 97, various Street Fighter games, Chase HQ.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 21:19 
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When it comes to these cd based games I try to stick to official games. It largely depends on how expensive the game is if I'll burn it or not. 50-80 euros is the spot where I'll at least burn a disc as a demo to see if it's worth it. But the moment the real deal costs over 100 euros I shed no tears burning a game. So I plan on getting official games but if there's a really good but pricy game then a verbatin 700mb disc does just fine.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 00:11 
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Okay cool these are all games I really recommend.

Elevator Action Returns, Crows the Battle Action, Hyper Duel, Magic Knight Rayearth, Dragon Force, Keio Yugekitai, Shinrei Jusatsushi Taromaru, Sokko Seitokai: Sonic Council, Super Tempo, Tryrush Deppy, Blast Wind, Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Astra Superstars, Death Crimson, Twinkle Star Sprites, Bulk Slash, Nekketsu Oyako.

All awesome games, all pretty unreasonable to buy now. I think I spelled them all right, but there could be some errors. The Saturn has tons of awesome games in general, it's a great console.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 00:54 
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Just checked out the price for Castlevania dracula x. And dang it's expensive. When just the disc only costs 90 euros plus shipping. And the playstation version isn't much cheaper either. (well it's not eye popping expensive considering I also happen to own a Mega CD and it has bunch of really expensive games.)

This is why I held off of getting a Saturn for so long and stuck just with the Mega Drive and it's add ons. The 3d games from this era have largely not aged that well. And since the 2d stuff was seen as outdated at the time and thus didn't sell that well compared to 3d games. Which is why some of the good 2d games have become quite expensive.

Luckily from my own research and the titles you have recommended to me, clearly show that the Saturn still has a large library of good games that won't make me sell my kidney or god forbid my Sega tower of power. So I won't have to go full pirate just to enjoy it's library. Part of me now wishes I hadn't written off Saturn and gotten it earlier.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 01:21 
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retrolaservision wrote:
Just checked out the price for Castlevania dracula x. And dang it's expensive. When just the disc only costs 90 euros plus shipping. And the playstation version isn't much cheaper either. (well it's not eye popping expensive considering I also happen to own a Mega CD and it has bunch of really expensive games.)

This is why I held off of getting a Saturn for so long and stuck just with the Mega Drive and it's add ons. The 3d games from this era have largely not aged that well. And since the 2d stuff was seen as outdated at the time and thus didn't sell that well compared to 3d games. Which is why some of the good 2d games have become quite expensive.

Luckily from my own research and the titles you have recommended to me, clearly show that the Saturn still has a large library of good games that won't make me sell my kidney or god forbid my Sega tower of power. So I won't have to go full pirate just to enjoy it's library. Part of me now wishes I hadn't written off Saturn and gotten it earlier.


Dracula X, like Tomb Raider, is better on other systems. I'd pick the PS1 version of this game any day of the week, and I'm not a Playstation fan at all, any Playstation.

While the Saturn has some expensive games (Psychic Killer Taromaru was super hard to find from the day it was released) there are also games like Pocket Fighter or Panzer Zwei which are extremely affordable and excellent. Nearly all the RPGs and strategy games are worthless on the used market so if you can enjoy them, go for it. World Advanced, Giren's Greed, Sakura Wars, all very nice games.

One very Sega Saturn sort of Sega Saturn game I can't recommend enough is Guardian Heroes. I've cleared this game dozens of times with friends. Another game that nobody ever mentions is Three Dirty Dwarves, a three player beat-em-em-up with very original western style animation. Very good sense of humor, I don't know if this was released outside of the US or how expensive is. Most of my Saturn collection was acquired years and years ago...

EDIT: Some quick research has shown me that Three Dirty Dwarves is not an affordable game anymore. :) It was before Youtube, I swear! I bought it on clearance, $10-15 probably.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 02:09 
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Sakura Wars is great. The fan translation is quite good.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2021, 23:30 
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The Saturn finally arrived. (I can finally stop fearing for my safety, that Segata Sanshiro is gonna beat the crap out of me)

The console seems to work alright. I don't own any games yet (Virtua Fighter 2 is currently in shipping) but I was able to play a music cd just fine. The console does need a cleanup as it's quite dirty.

Anyway it came with 3 controllers (two official and one third party.) The official ones are both model 1 and 2. This came as a surprise as the listing only had a picture of one model 2 controller. So I assumed both of these would be model 2's.

The third party controller is called ST2. And I think I might prefer it over the two official ones. You see this controller is basically the japanese 6 button mega drive controller with a left shoulder button added. And I love the design of the 6 button Mega Drive controller and was somewhat disappointed with the two Saturn controllers. They felt like a downgrade rather than an improvement over the 6 button Mega Drive controller.

Unfortunately the 3rd party controller is not perfect. Because it's a copy of the japanese Mega Drive controller it's rather small. I would have liked it to be the size of the western 6 button controller. It's d-pad is also quite cheap. I think in the future I might buy an another european/american 6 button Mega Drive controller and swap it's board with this one. I think it might be possible considering the screw holes are in the exact same spots with these two controllers. Though I would need to add an another hole for the left shoulder button. Then I'd have (in my opinion) the perfect Saturn controller.

I also decided to get fighters megamix as my second Saturn game rather than Tomb Raider. It especially looks like a must own for me. And btw thank you for your recommendations. Some of them are already on my list of games I'll get in the future.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 02:01 
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I’m not sure what you mean by models 1 and 2. Did Europe get the same crap redesigned pads as the US did?

In Japan there is only one pad and it’s as nearly flawless as anything. There are a number of color variants but they are all the same.

Because Sega of America SUCKED they designed a new controller for the US that almost nobody prefers (it’s slippery and has edges all over it but is still not bad really...). When the round button Saturns hit the US they gave up their stupid idea and just started shipping normal Japanese versions. Because of this some fans call them by versions 1 and 2 but if anything the numbers are the reverse of that; the better pad is the older one. My friends and I just call Saturn pads “Saturn pads” and the US ones “US Saturn pads” since the US ones are far less common, are weird, never should have been made, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 03:44 
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In the US we got the large pad (model 1 ) with the original oval buttons and then got the smaller Japanese pad (model 2 ) round button model (model 2 otherwise there has been only one model of pad as far as I'm aware to go with both models of the console except as stated above.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 03:56 
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Yeah, I guess if when you say “model 1” you’re referring to the console it came with and not the pad itself that makes sense. The Japanese Saturn came out first though and it had the same pads from day one that would become the only pad world wide rather quickly (when the silver Saturn turned white in Japan). Chronologically the US pad came later and is the revision on the original.

The Saturn was a popular import item and by then we had the internet and Die Hard and NCS all that stuff so pretty much everyone who was buying games back then on a hardcore level was aware of the US pads being their own f-ed up b*****d thing that almost nobody* prefers. This more or less marked the end of the days of calling a system by different names in different regions...no way to keep the Famicom a Japanese secret for 2-3 years, like in the old days.

Microsoft must have had some old SoA people working there though since the original XBox had a weirdly similar thing going on in reverse. They designed a smaller pad for Japan that eventually became the worldwide standard...although world-wide may be stretching it since the XBox sold *so* poorly in Japan (sometimes single digest sales per week!) that the US Saturn market would have to be seen as a roaring success by comparison.




(*Jag collectors who buy most stuff from garage sales...one would assume)
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2021, 16:50 
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shows his collection pretty cool.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 22:17 
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Well I have received my first games. And despite the fact I ordered virtua fighter 2 way earlier it's still in shipping.

I bought a bundle of games here in Finland last sunday and got them wednesday. Fighters Megamix (as you recommended), Fighting vipers and Fifa 97 (I got the fifa only because it was cheap)

Anyway I have enjoyed them so far. I'm still somewhat getting used to the 3d fighting game controls. As I have mostly played 2d fighters before this. But I still had good fun despite having to figure out how the controls work a little. Though I'm not sure if fighting vipers was properly optimized for PAL regions. As it seems to play slower than fighters megamix.

Fifa 97... worked. Not really a sports game guy. Heck the first match I tried, within ten seconds I kicked the ball into my own goal.....

As for controllers I have only used so far the model 2 saturn pad. I am getting more used to it's shape. But I can't shake away it's feeling of cheapness. At least the european model 2 Saturn controller feels just much cheaper when compared with the Mega Drive controllers that I am used to. Heck the 3rd party ST2 shell feels less cheap than the shell of the Saturn pad.

I do have annoyances with the boxes. The EA box is different like with the Mega Drive games as well. It's unnecessarily large basically a VHS case with two disc holders. It can hold at least two cd's but with fifa and probably most games it's useless. And it having two disc holders makes the placement of the manual and the giveway competition card a pain.

The fighting vipers case is also bad. It's quite like a dvd case before dvd's. But they don't have any plastic protecting the artwork. And the amount of games on ebay with worn out sides is staggering. So it's quite a problem. Also there is only one tab keeping the box closed. So it can open up quite easily by just being the last game in the shelf tilted to a little sideways. Oh and the disc holder is crap as well.

Sega had fixed these problems by the time fighters megamix was released (well expect the disc holder. It's still crap)

At least I know what to expect with USA and Japanese releases with my Mega CD collection. But still why did Europeans get the crappiest cases in the 5th gen. I have yet to see one european PS1 game where the case is not in some way broken.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 03:38 
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Can you post a picture or a link to a picture of the Saturn pad you’re talking about?
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 11:04 
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Sure thing. Here's two pictures.

The first one has all the controllers I have. the controller I was talking about is the one on the right.

The second one is just a picture of my CIB saturn and all the games I have so far for it. I probably should have posted these pictures when I got the console.


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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 16:27 
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So to be clear it is the controller on the right that you feel seems crappy, is that correct? You prefer both of the others?
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 17:18 
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No the controller on the left feels just as cheap. And due to it's weird d pad and bad shoulder buttons, I prefer the model 2 to that. I feel like with both of the official controllers, that if I wanted to I could very easily just break them. Especially them model 1. Feels like if I'm holding it too tightly the plastic would break. And the buttons are no where near as clicky as mega drive controllers.

The ST2 feels cheaper than an official 6 button mega drive pad. But not as cheap as the two official Saturn controllers. (Well maybe it's D pad is worse than an official Saturn pad's d-pad)

But so far my controller preferences are the following of these. ST2>Model 2/Japanese Saturn pad>Model 1 Saturn pad.

Maybe us europeans just got a bad deal and the japanese (or american) versions of these controllers are going to be better. I'll probably see that once I get a game that would make use of a multitab. Since the japanese version of the controllers, are the cheapest official controllers. So when I'm gonna get them as extra controllers, I'll see if in japan they used better materials.

But so far my plan is to modify the ST2. Since it's too small and the two official pads feel too cheap. So I'll just get a real euro/american 6 button mega drive pad, and put the ST2 board inside one of that. Considering the ST2 uses the exact same case as the japanese 6 button controller, it should be simple. The hardest part is to make an another hole for the left shoulder pad but that's it.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 18:15 
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I would be very surprised if there was a quality difference with the pads. I think they probably all came off the same line. I think you maybe just have unconventional tastes. The Saturn pad, the real Saturn pad, sold in grey, white, a different grey, black, and maybe other colors, the only one sold in Japan, the one on the right in that picture, is widely regarded as not only being good but also as being the best pre-analog pad ever. I was massive into Street Fighter when the Saturn launched in Japan and to my friends it seemed like an gift from God, the only pad even half as good as an average stick. When the Dreamcast came out, an excellent system with bad controllers, most of us bought adapters to keep using Saturn pads. Saturn pads also wear very well.

I personally always thought the six button MD pad kinda sucked because it’s so small, smaller by far than the three button one, there is nothing to even hold. It’s all buttons. The d-pad is a massive improvement to the POS one on three button MD pad, no question, but it’s dimensions are conspicuously small.

A side note...I have a very hard time calling the US style pad “model one” when it came later. This is driving my brain insane, I don’t care WTF Youtubers call it. They weren’t even born when the stuff came out. The f-ed up over designed glossy one on the left came LATER so it simply isn’t a MkI. It is then second pad to be released and therefore it is the MkII.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 18:42 
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Well what else can the Euro/USA redesign be called. It doesn't have a clever name like the Duke. So the simplest way to call it is to use the model of console it came with.

But enough about that. I think the reason why I find it cheap, is that the shell has two different types of plastic. It has the glossy plastic on top, which feels just fine. But then there is matte gritty plastic, which feels too cheap. And the second reason is the buttons. I don't like the fact that they are not clicky and overall they just feel cheap. Now maybe my controllers are just worn out and this is why.

About the size thing. You see I have smaller hands. I find the 3 button MD pad to be way too big. My favorite dualshock controller is the PS3 one, because it's slightly smaller than PS1 or PS2 dualshock controller. (it's basically the pre analog ps controller with triggers and analog sticks) So for me the Euro/USA 6 button MD pad is the perfect size. Though the Japanese one and the ST2 are way too small even for my hands.

Because of this the Japanese/model.... 1 Saturn controllers rounded shoulder buttons annoy me.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 23:50 
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I really love the Saturn controller, the real one not the s**t US/EU redesign. It's one of my favorite controllers ever. Wish I had one of those adapters to use it on Dreamcast. The biggest issue with the Dreamcast controller is it just destroys your thumb if you play for very long. Something I really rediscovered this year while beating 13 games on the system. Bangai-O is a lovely game, but nearly unplayable with a Dreamcast controller due to this issue combined with the frantic gameplay.
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 Post subject: Re: Sega Saturn
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2021, 05:32 
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retrolaservision wrote:
Well what else can the Euro/USA redesign be called. It doesn't have a clever name like the Duke. So the simplest way to call it is to use the model of console it came with.


That's the very thing...Japanese MkI consoles did come with this pad that people are calling a model 2 pad.

This is the very earliest Saturn ever produced, November 22, 1994.

Image

Does it have "MkII" pads? How can it when was no MkII at this time?

Here is a Lauch USA Saturn:

Image

Isn't that a MkI Saturn also?

Here is the first MkII Japanese machine:

Image

You'll find that same pad sold on every generation of Saturn in Japan including the Hitachi one, the HiNavi, skeleton, etc, All Japanese SS machines always had this pad.

It seems to literally be an example of an overbearing Eurocentrist viewpoint. :) Because the Saturn launched in the west with its own western style pad then that pad came first...never mind that the Saturn came out in Japan first with different pads. A MkIII Ford Focus is still a MkIII in the US even though the MkII was skipped. Tree of Life stuff...

The Same OG Saturn was sold with either pad depending on region so MkI/MkII just don't work well because it has nothing to do with the generation of the machine. Its not like "dogbone" NES pads that only existed when the NES was totally redone or Neo Geo CD pads, its just confusing.

I'd call the USA style one Slick, or maybe Syd Mead style. The other I'd just call "Saturn Pad". I own about a dozen as well as a (not bootleg) USB one which just rules for emulators.
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