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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 02:02 
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signofzeta wrote:
Don’t underestimate the power of a store credit card. Back then not every store in America had one. “Sold only at Sears” translates to “I can afford that NOW instead of putting it on layaway like the poor people at KMart do.”

Before the 5200 was released there was no need to specify which Atari it was. It was the only Atari. Soon the only Atari would be bulldozed by the only Nintendo. That’s how it was back then.


Yes I said it’s a pre-5200 commercial. It it were post-5200, they would have said "Atari 2600 compatible"

Also, for the console, they hook you with store credit. But the Media could be bought more often without credit. So it benefited Sears to hide the fact that Sears Telegames media was the same as an Atari 2600 cartridge instead of advertise that fact. You don’t need credit to buy either a 2600 game or a Telegames game. They were probably the same price. If the average Telegames system buyer knew the Telegames and 2600 were exactly the same, they’d feel more free to shop around for their game. Of course the reverse is true that Atari Owners might think the Telegames is a separate system, and therefore not shop Sears. Some unscrupulous salesmen could have spread that rumor outside the Sears ecosystem to eliminate one competitor. if Sears had a sale, the competitior could sell a copy wihtout matching the sale by throwing the seed that Sears sells Telegames instead of Atari. You just hide the fact they are the same.

There was also a lie spread by some Magnavox TV dealers that the Odyssey only worked on Magnavox TVs. I don’t know if that would have flied in the Odyssey 2 days since video game systems were more common. The customers wouldn’t have bought that lie, citing the Atari as an example.

I don’t know how many people thought that. It wasn’t 100%. It wasn’t 0% According to the low-data poll, based on knowledge they had then, reflecting on it now, more Atari VCS Gamers knew the Telegames was really a VCS than Sears Owners knew a Telegames was really a VCS. 1 out of 3 Atari owners bought a Sears game, (or Tandy, or MW, but most likely Sears) but 0 out of 2 Sears owners bought an Atari game. So that was a net positive for Sears...

... until the third parties labeled all their games "for Atari or Sears Telegames systems". Atari wouldn’t promote Sears (and certainly not the Coleco Gemini) as compatible on their packages, but Sears advertised their Video Arcade was "Atari-compatible" after a certain point, because third party boxes already let out the secret in their stores, so go attract more people outside of Sears.

And let’s admit, there were no such thing as equally competing formats until VHS and Beta. There was only one format of record player, only one format of AM radio, only one format of FM radio. At one point there were 2 formats of TV, VHF and UHF, and were mutually exclusive when UHF was RGB, hence B/W incompatible. Once VHF invented the luma-chroma mode to make black-and-white-compatible color, UHF adapted to luma-chroma, Color TV made UHF a desirable extra, and it was just easier to make a dual standard tuner. Video games are ALWAYS in a format war. I never seen agreement between game makers. But the 2600 vs Astrocade vs Fairchild was the first. There were no such things as third parties, so if it said Atari, Fairchild, or Bally, you know what format it was. The salesman just said look for the Atari name, Bally name, Fairchild name, Sears name etc.

Also there were no system licensing fees, so to grow the market Atari had to form Atarisoft to make games for INTV and Colecovision, M Network was Mattel’s 2600 brand, and Coleco release 2600 and INTV games, some say intentionally bad games, to sell Colecovisions. Also, Bally licensed their titles for 2600 converisions to CBS and there was a Magnavox Coleocvision label called Odyssey, which made War Room.

When kids said they wanted a game, a parent was clueless. Kids were more demanding consumers, asking for specific brands, unbound by economic realities. And some got bratty when had to settle for second best. I don’t know if Sears told parents that a Telegames was "an Atari" they can afford on credit, or just "a game system". I was not in the Atari market until I went thrifting in College.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 09:30 
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I had a 5200 from Sears in '83

We brought it back to Australia in '85 with a power transformer but couldn't figure out how to make it work with our TVs so trashed it. I didn't learn about PAL/NTSC until about '90 when I started getting into anime..My mum had a high score on River Raid, she sent a photo of the TV on like level 100 into Activision and they sent us a free cartridge, I think it was Pole Position.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 15:52 
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tripletopper wrote:
And let’s admit, there were no such thing as equally competing formats until VHS and Beta. There was only one format of record player


Not true Triple.
You are forgetting about RR, there were always choices for consumers and still are.

Oh I better translate otherwise you will write another novella. :crazy:

RR = Reel to Reel
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 16:26 
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There were absolutely competing record formats. LP phased out shellacs which beat out cylinders, and metal plates. There were competing stereo formats in the 40s, there was that CX system too. Even 1/4” real to real tape was sold with different numbers of tracks, speeds, real sizes, then there was 8 track and cassette.

But in general if it fit in the machine it usually played in some way. It wasn’t until the 80s where companies started breaking compatibility on purpose to control the customer with regions and such.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 20:38 
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signofzeta wrote:
There were absolutely competing record formats. LP phased out shellacs which beat out cylinders, and metal plates. There were competing stereo formats in the 40s, there was that CX system too. Even 1/4” real to real tape was sold with different numbers of tracks, speeds, real sizes, then there was 8 track and cassette.

But in general if it fit in the machine it usually played in some way. It wasn’t until the 80s where companies started breaking compatibility on purpose to control the customer with regions and such.


But there was one difference. The media player companies were usually not the media art companies. Most albums were made in the 70s and 80s were made on Record Cassette or (either) 8-Track or CD. Thee were very few "record exclusives" or "cassette exclusives" , though CDs were adding a CD-only tracks to promote CDs.

Most of the big movie companies were published on both VHS and Beta, as to a lesser extent, Selectavision and Laser Disc. There were very few Beta-only and VHS-only companies, and most of them were minor labels.

The video game industry was the opposite initially. Atari kept its titles from Astrocade and Fairchild, and vice versa. Atari was the key Intellectual property company also in a media player standard. Astrocade had Taito and Namco, because they were Bally Midway, and thought they had the home license by default, because they had the arcade license. But Atari challenged them by offering the Japanese companies money for home rights directly. And that’s then the Bally system got sold to Astrovision and got famous for their homebrew scene by mailing audio cassettes with audio noises which equals code, and because the most "little guy" focused system.

Whereas movie media players always accepted movie companies making cassettes on Beta and VHS, Atari was fighting for the right to be the exclusive 2600 game maker when Activision challenged Atari’s monopoly.

I think Atari vs Astrocade was the first format war where it wasn’t just about what format was technically better, however the consumer deems it, like VHS vs Beta or record vs 8 track vs Cassette. Now the issue becomes: if I buy an Astrorcade instead of a VCS, I’l miss out on Asteroids. If i have to pick one format, I’ll miss out on certain titles.

Beta Vs VHS vs Laser Disc vs Selectavision did not have a big title exclusive, so Star Wars or Superman weren’t kept off any of these formats. All the movie companies went to any format they wanted, and they wanted it all in the biggest cases.

The game industry was going the way of Movies, Atari making Atarisoft games for INTV and Coleco, M-Network is Mattel’s 2600 game division, and Coleco started it by making money by arguably making bad games for 2600 and INTV to make the Colecovision look good.

Then in HD DVD vs. Blu Ray war, the movie companies wanted to be HD DVD or Blu Ray exclusives, following the video game model. Only Warner Brothers made simultaneous Red and Blue copies. One WB movie was proposed to be a dual-disc on the same physical media. It was never released because HD DVD died around then.

It’s funny how system wars and console exclusives were always in video games, but music companies have never been, and movie companies were early on not, advocates for a particular format. And the HD DVD Vs. Blu Ray War was disturbing for that exact same reason. Beta vs. VHS vs. Laser Disc vs. Selectavision wasn’t like that.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 23:29 
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there are various music formats competing only Vinyl seems to have a lasting impact.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2019, 00:48 
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xtempo wrote:
there are various music formats competing only Vinyl seems to have a lasting impact.


I think there have only been 2 cassette albums made in the last ten years. And it was because the "geek factor" to own this on cassette, just like Star Lord.

Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2 Soundtracks.
[Reveal] Spoiler: "Don’t read until you see Volume 2"
Makes you wonder if they’ll release a limited edition Zune for volume 3 instead of a cassette.


Interestingly enough, the first album was the first number one soundtrack album to contain no new material. I think a Greatest Hits album by an artist hit number 1, and so did those "Now" hit compilation of the year albums. You can thank iTunes for the second case, as more people were buying singles, and more of them online.


Speaking of the shift to singles, TCS had the distinction of being the first act to be nominated for best new act of the year despite taking many years to release 5 singles to make them eligible. They never released an album.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 17:12 
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Add this one to the list of new cassette releases. Saw it at Target a few weeks back.
https://www.target.com/p/britney-spears ... A-53796850

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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 17:35 
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There are tons of cassettes coming out now. Nothing as big as Guardians of the Galaxy but there are many. It’s dumb, IMO, because cassette sucks, but thems the times.

My friend released a Vita game last year that came with the OST on cassette. I don’t know what’s more anachronistic in 2018, a US Vita game or a cassette...

https://limitedrungames.com/products/li ... 3428198453
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 19:09 
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This is funny.
When the CD and Vinyl came out back in the day during the first death of vinyl, that now vinyl goes for 50 or more.
Look at OK Computer or even Three Feet High and Rising.

So does that mean that a title like Baby One More Time first issue CDs are going to be crazy since that is the true first edition.

And wow I never even heard of PS Vita, must have been in bars chasing women at that time or doing what ever I will be doing when the death of home media
will be finalized.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 20:17 
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It’s hard to say with that 90s stuff. A lot of it did come out on vinyl but only in Europe or the UK so it would depend on the release.

For example I’m pretty sure there was never a Pet Shop Boys album that didn’t hit LP on day one, from the 80s to now, but the further away you get away from Europe and also the dance, hip hop, and punk scenes the more likely you are to be CD only. Willie Nelson’s Teatro (*amazing* record, btw) was a huge hit in the late 90s but was CD only until a RSD LP five years ago.

The horrible pop country wave of the 90s in particular was very much a CD thing but if a wave of 90s nostalgia causes white lable house and hip hop 12”s to become popular the sky is the limit on that stuff. It’s all very low run compared to CDs, the promos and such being issued in dozens, it wouldn’t take much for that to take off. Sooooo many legendary house tracks started out as self release, then a lable promo, then maybe a general release then a CD Single if it was a huge hit like James Brown is Dead or Born Slippy. The bootlegs abound also since back then DJs basically required that something be on wax or they couldn’t play it. Sometimes it’s a bootleg of something that was CD only or sometimes just because the OG was so massively out of print. Sometimes you buy the bootleg because sample clearances worsened the official release. There is a lot going on there.

If the CD is the debut and it’s from the mid to late 90s the sales numbers were often so massive and CD so potentially long lasting it doesn’t seem like it would fetch much but then people are stupid so I don’t know anything anymore. Most 12” promos are in the garbage or have band writing on them or the good track is worn out, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 20:50 
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harlock wrote:
Add this one to the list of new cassette releases. Saw it at Target a few weeks back.
https://www.target.com/p/britney-spears ... A-53796850

Image


that is so cute! I might have to get one.
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