I eat meat daily so should be good for zinc.

Remember kids, human teeth and intestine is designed to consume a wide variety of foods, including meats. While it is possible to be healthy as a vegetarian, it's a lot trickier than just eating meat and the whole wide variety of foods that your body was designed to consume in the first place.

The health benefits of MEAT are less and less heard of in our strange modern society that doesn't take into account common sense. An abundance of Zinc is one benefit of meat, there are many others.

In fact, for most people, all necessary vitamins and minerals can be gotten through a balanced diet and exposure to sunlight, if you've got these you don't need to give supplements companies all your money. The thing about vitamins and minerals in food is your body will absorb them, with tablets your body will discard excess and you will just have expensive pee..

As for the moral aspect, other living things that are designed to eat meat on this planet take lives far less humanely than us humans do. After all, of course humane comes from the word human.

s**t, I'm agreeing with Forper.

I don't have a problem with taking supplements but I do think a balanced diet is pretty important.

I confirm that going full vegan is a lot of work: planning, measuring, constantly mixing the right amount of various proteins, fat, minerals, vitamins, etc. Vegan yeast is required for most people to get a complete, balanced diet.

I tried twice (for various reasons) and failed twice.

Ended up with anemia (9 to 12 months to fully recover) due to lack of vitamins B9 (folic acid)/B12 leading to macrocytosis.
Head spinning, tiredness, difficulties sleeping, impossible to exercise due to instant exhaustion, impossible to focus on work.
Low oxygen level in the bloodstream basically.

Conclusion from the doctors was simple: eat a little bit of everything, your body is not naturally designed for a pure vegan diet.

Julien

Interesting Julien. So are you still vegan? Can I ask why you went vegan in the first place?

I mean it seems to me there is a slightly lower risk of cancer as a vegan but a much higher risk or everything else! Your story helps confirm it for me.

1/ My company's boss in the USA was vegan and asking the staff to not bring non-vegan food to the office -- we also had a vegan chef cooking for us and it was delicious.
2/ I've seen the price of meat drop significantly since I was a kid (and fish climb) and I'm wondering what kind of quality industrial meat really is.
3/ There was a Whole Foods Market right across the street.
4/ I love cooking.
5/ I wanted to try

Julien

Geez, that sounds like a nightmare. but hey I only bring a peanut butter sandwich to work every day so I would be safe haha.



hey free food is good. Then go home to a nice T bone..



Really? In Australia the price of fresh meat has climbed a lot from when I was a kid in the '80s, same as fish. I still buy it, but have to be careful with the cuts, as it can cost a lot.



Okay, so you're still vegan?

Julien

Surprised at the push back about supplemental support to diet.

Yeah, I believed the expensive pee excuse to not do vitamins.
That excuse not to supplement is total B.S.

Science it out man.
If you can eat healthy and maintain homeostasis then spot on to you mate.
Statistically EVERYONE is deficient in Magnesium, C, and Potassium. This is historically accurate in the U.S.

High salt intake cancels Potassium so to get the over 2000 mg daily, you need to eat more then 12 ripe bananas.

Not going to preach here.
Everyone is their own living experiment.
What works for you, works for you.

I was simply relaying data that is being investigated during our pandemic that is actually being recognized as helpful dealing with this nuisance of a protein molecule.

To recap : Magnesium, Zinc, D, and high doses of Liposomel C are showing prophylactic and acute improvement in dealing with this nasty contagion.
This is not idle speculation.

Science it out people. There is a s**t ton of data being compiled every day as the scientists of the world hammer down on this situation.

Stay vigilant, stay aware, and watch your six

Cheers,

J

fair nuff

I get the vegan symptoms Julien had.

Vegetarians NEED to supplement B complex vitamins especially B12.

We get new vegy peeps in the er every once in awhile that did not get the memo about B12.
Anemia is one of the results of a deficiency as well as syncope aka passing out.(big problem if driving)

I believe going plant based and dairy free more then 2 years ago was the best move a 50 y/o plus overweight guy could choose.
I lost over 50 lbs, started exercising daily, and dont feel like snapping everytime someone pisses me off.
Meditation daily has helped as well on not snapping on co-workers.

According to Indian Ayurvedic medicine there are a combination of 3 different body types.
The Kapha, the Pitta, and the Vata.
These body types and their different combinations dictate the various dietary requirements for the specific individual.

Once again, we all are different yet there are universal nutrient needs for being a human bean.
We must also consider cultural, religious, and other demographics that impact what peeps put in their oral pharynx.
How many diet fads can you name ?
I remember when margarine was sold to us as better then butter.
Turns out that margarine is a trans fat and indicative of atherosclerosis and arterial sclerotic scarring.

Things change. Diet changes take our DNA THOUSANDS of years to adjust to.....
Underscore THOUSANDS kids.

So in our modern age, we are in new territory at the home of the whopper.
Science it out, we are accountable to ourselves for our own health.
Nobody cares as much for you, then you lol.....

Hang tough !

J

I am pretty sure I am not the only person that is grateful for your input on this thread James, heartfelt thanks.

Take care & stay as safe as you possibly can.

Best regards,

John

Appreciate that John.

Thank you sir !

Stay safe over there.....

Cheers,

J

Thing about almost every vegetarian I've met is that they're fat. Usually just in the belly to indicate lack of protein that leads to muscle retention. The reason for this is simply it's a bad lifestyle choice. For example I go to a cafe, they have chicken sandwiches and banana bread on the menu. I have the chicken sandwich, vego friend has the banana bread. Which is healthier? Chicken sandwich or banana bread?



Well if you can balance a cocktail of supplements then good for you too. I know which balancing act I'd rather try.



Well that's amazing because my apparantly magnesium, C and potassium deficient grandparents lived to 90 plus.




Why? I'm pretty sure my grandparents didn't eat 12 bananas or take potassium supplements and my grandfather helped defeat the Japanese in New Guinea, built his own house and played cricket for his State. Well into his 80s he used to get up every day at 4AM and garden then go to church, then play bowls, work on his car, do a crossword and the have a beer with his meat and 3 veg. He was the most chilled guy I ever met, never got angry at anyone

I read you about fat veggie people forper. Look I get it. Diet is a sensitive subject, and highly personal.
I dream of a planet where unhealthy food is expensive and wholesome organic food is inexpensive.

Check this out, I am going to go ham here..... (apologies in advance to the membership lol)

Many think living on carbs is the way to go. Again, helps to science it out. Living on too much carbs ends up risking diabetes, high blood pressure, and amyloid plaques building in the white and grey matter of the brain.
One is better off eating mainly meat then to rely on a meatless diet relying on too many carbs for sustenance.

That belly fat is usually from a hormone imbalance, namely too much cortisol.
People build up too much cortisol by over stressing combined with too little sleep.
Cortisol is produced by the kidney adrenal glands. It gives us the energy to jump out of bed and start our day.
It gets to be a problem when we do not dissolve it through our daily activities.
Too much residual cortisol can be likened to putting a foot on an auto accelerator and the brake at the same time.
Sleep becomes more and more difficult. I lived this issue for years so speaking of my experience.

My great grandfather was an officer in the U.S. Navy during WW I. I knew him till he died when I was 19. He was 95.
He lived on meat, vegies, and loved sugar on his butter. Rhubarb Pie was the best thing under the sun when my great grandmother made them which was nearly every time I visited. Rhubarb/ Apple was spot on as well.
Damn, can taste it now. Sweet and sour at the same time.
My great grandfather smoked cigarettes, a pipe, and cigars and suffered no respiratory ailments.
He drove a car to the day he died. Hated making left turns toward the end. Way too much info to process for him.
My grandfather made his own rules, he did not exercise later in life. A very lean old man whom I loved dearly.
My point is he followed no regime and took no supplements.
My grandmother lived with him for 70 plus years and breathed all that second hand smoke and never had respiratory issues of her own..... defied current trending logic.

So, my gig is not living on supplemens. I augment a healthy diet with suppliments. At nearly 55, I feel suppliments help my gut biome and repair my epigenome. I rode my body hard and ate like s**t a good portion of my life.
Especially as a kid and teenager. As I age out I am minding my diet and general health to stay in the game for as long as I can !

Like I typed before, we each are an experiment. What works for one may not work for another.
I personally do not believe in a static food pyramid for EVERYONE. Depending on health and heredity one needs to FIND their own food pyramid. Correct and augment over time if needed or not......
Take care of your body and mind and you may live longer and keep your cognitive marbles Intact longer.
My theory mate, no guarantee claimed here.

I will go out on a limb and tell people how to cut their risk of heart attack or stroke down to lower likelyhood.
Especially if cardiac issues are reflected in family history.

Most animals manufacture their own vitamin C inside their metabolism. Human beings cannot currently do this.
The USDA recommends 84 odd milligrams a day. Above that dose you make expensive urine.
Right. I eat several GRAMS of vit c a day for the following reasoning -

Studies have shown that rickets causes bowing of legs, bleeding gums, and poor countenance.
However, the very first sign of vitamin C deficiency occurs in the muscle layer of our blood vessels. This is totally hidden from view and occurs over our entire life.
Due to a lack of collagen (vitamin C encouraged) in this layer inside the vessels, they get weakened and inflexible due to cholesterol and calcium filling cracks from breakdown and entropy of the vasculature.
Specifically, in the coronary vessels when enough calcium builds up these vessels actually show up on x ray all calcified and rigid. When blunt force or inertia force the normally flexible vessels to bend, they get micro cracks that the body repairs with cholesterol and calcium as a cement or mortar.
Over a lifetime, when one eats alot of carbs and/or sugars in their diet, this promotes Inflammation.
Now inflammation more then normally present is not good. So when these calcified pockets of cholesterol get inflamed they can burst into the bloodstream Instantly forming a clot or thrombus, it can lodge and block a coronary artery (heart attack), or lodge in the lung (pulmonary embolism), or lodge in the brain(stoke). Or lodge anywhere it gets stuck by reductions in vessel diameters cutting off down stream circulation. Definitely not good.

Besides the immensely important vitamin C for vascular health there is also a big vitamin called K2 that needs to be shared for peoples information.
Vitamin K2 in the form of mk4 or mk7 comes from fermented foods like kimchee, sauerkraut, or Japanese Natto.
You can also get it from grass fed beef and grass fed cows butter, also yogurt from grass fed cows.
Cows pass on mk4 from eating grass to people in the form of K2.
K2 -
This essential vitamin gives Calcium an extra molecule to allow it to LEAVE the blood vessels, the joints, and the brain and bond to the bones where it is supposed to be. Without K2 the calcium is unable to go to the bones and just sits in places where it does more harm then good. This is why many older people get that STIFF appearance and walk kind of rigidly. Calcified joints is why.

By augmenting with vit C and vit K2 or just eating properly a person seriously reduces their chances of Myocardial infarction and CVA (Cardio Vascular Accidents) aka (stroke) quite significantly.
There are data based studies to support this. One in the Netherlands was quite well done in the mid 2000's

Now because my country's medical system is a for "profit" one, education concerning diet is not emphasized nearly enough. The heart surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, brain Interventional docs need their piece of the pie.
Augmenting with suppliments and better yet, eating properly can mitigate the need for these skillful people to cut you open "fix" what may not have needed to be fixed with proper nutrition.
Not wishing to denigrate Dr's. They save MANY lives.
Just wish to under score that my country's health care is profit based. Insurance companies do not profit from healthy populace.

Apologies for rant. Just got off shift and have too much cortisol running through my body.

Anyone interested in vit C, YouTube Dr. Mercola.....
Tons of YouTube videos on vitamin K2 re Dr. Whitcomb, and many others....

Hope this helps someone out there.

Stay safe people....
Spin a disc today !

You write well and I got half way through your post. Maybe I need more vitamin attention or maybe your post reads a little over the top. Sounds like you got it figured out, I don't overthink stuff, just everything in moderation seemed to work for my forebears. KISS principle for me. Works for the US Army, don't think they've lost a battle since Korea.

How are you doing pokefraker?

Really hope you are past the worst & on the mend now.

Cheers,

John

Please let us know how you are doing. I am so sorry to read this. I am praying for you.

I am not a Trump hater like many people on this planet and i see some positive aspects about him but he totally screwed up here. Had the United Stated
been prepared better / earlier, things would be different now. He is however 100% right about the WHO being too heavily influenced by China.

At least he closed the borders from China early, WHO called him a racist at the time for doing it, but it could have been even worse if he hadn't. Also America is a very large country, with the most diverse and open society on the planet, many different cultures, many different jurisdictions, controlling something like this without calling in the National Guard is very hard to do in a country like America. I think we need to mitigate it because of the potential for exponential growth but it still hasn't overtaken deaths from the normal flu this year and there's evidence mounting that all those deaths in NYC were mixed in with deaths from many other causes. Remember Quomo and other Democrats have a huge motive to try and make Trump look bad. Trumps video rebuttal last week points out a lot of it. I lost faith in Trump for a while there too, thought he looked bad but a lot of it is the usual media lies and half truths

Weren't most USA cases imported from Europe?
As the journalist asked him "What did you do in February with the time you bought by closing the border with China?", Trump had no concrete answers.



It officially has since March 23rd, and is quickly getting the #1 cause of death in the country.
(you can't compare absolute numbers for the previous flu with increasing numbers of COVID).

Note that it's largely under-reported since you won't show up in the stats in your weren't tested while sick, and won't get tested postmortem.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/04/07/heres-how-coronavirus/

Julien

Yep and had he not closed the borders with China then most cases would have come from China. And there would have been a lot more cases.

Trump had the video, which showed the democrat pressure to keep the borders open.




So far this year total Flu hospitalisations including from COVID 19 are lower than the total hospitalisations in 2017-18:

Hey sorry I didn't give a update sooner, I've been feeling better for a couple days, with pretty much all my symptoms short of a dry cough gone. I have plenty of PTO at my job, so my wife and I aren't missing any income thankfully.

Thanks everyone for the well wishes, hope everyone is doing okay, we'll get through this