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teddanson
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Post subject: Is it just me...? Posted: 05 Jun 2020, 00:25 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 16 Nov 2018, 14:21 Posts: 1570 Location: New Delaware Has thanked: 448 times Been thanked: 496 times
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I was hoping to watch a 1080p version of So Close on Prime Video tonight. It's here if you want to see it yourself: https://www.amazon.co.uk/So-Close-Qi-Shu/dp/B01CZ6SSR8I knocked it off after about 5 minutes because the DD5.1 track used on this new 1080p streaming-only version is FECKING AWFUL!!!I swear to God, the audio is so weak it sounds like a British Telecom engineer the size of an ant with a voice that sounds like a plate of beans negotiating their way out of a cow's digestive system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ended up scolding the chat rep in to full submission and issuing me a refund. How can a DD5.1 track sound so UTTERLY like weeping anus smegma? Gordon Bennett!! After I'd ventured outside to collect my television and assorted audio visual equipment and repaired the window, I decided to make a cup of tea and settle down with my Japanese DTS Superbit DVD of So Close instead. Whilst gripping the armchair so hard by the end credits I'd left a permanent grip mark in it as the last dying embers of rage exited my being. The Superbit DTS DVD is superb. I chuckled at every poor gag, I ducked and dived as every spent revolver bullet sonically sped over my shoulders, I winced at the sound of stilettos burying themselves in concrete walls. It was a tremendous experience. So the question begs, do we really need to mess with soundtracks when the one's that were already there are usually perfectly fine? And another thing, and excuse ignorance here, but is DTS considered better than DD5.1? I have no idea so am curious to know. I'm off to go yell at a bunch of teenagers, then I'm going back to my shed in the garden to engrave something, or turn some wood on a lathe...
_________________ Blog: The Coterie / L'boxd: Diary Pioneer CLD-R7G, CLD-D925 | Yamaha APD-2 | DVDO Edge, VP50 Pro
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je280
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Post subject: Re: Is it just me...? Posted: 05 Jun 2020, 01:22 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2012, 23:14 Posts: 1199 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 265 times Been thanked: 259 times
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Hi teddanson, can I respectfully ask if you feel so aggrieved at anything else in the same way PLEASE post it on here. I don't think I have enjoyed a rant with such relish for a long time. Thanks & that was a good one to say the least .
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admin
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Post subject: Re: Is it just me...? Posted: 05 Jun 2020, 02:18 |
Site Admin |
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Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37 Posts: 4565 Location: Tokyo Has thanked: 297 times Been thanked: 1157 times
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teddanson wrote: I ended up scolding the chat rep in to full submission and issuing me a refund. Is it one of the "DD+ 5.1 optimized for streaming" soundtracks with a very low bandwidth? Julien
_________________ HARDWARE DATABASE HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
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admin
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Post subject: Re: Is it just me...? Posted: 05 Jun 2020, 08:03 |
Site Admin |
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Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37 Posts: 4565 Location: Tokyo Has thanked: 297 times Been thanked: 1157 times
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deadlegion wrote: I've seen (or should I say heard) this plenty of times over the years with pirate rips, it simply boils down to ineptitude and laziness. DD+ 5.1 is a catchy keywords but I've seen videos files where I ended up listening to the 2ch (stereo) track, it sounded better than the 32Kbps DD+ 5.1 one. Is any streaming offering lossless 5.1 codecs? It's always my least favorite marketing buzzword being thrown around: "up to <whatever>". DD+ it "up to 640Kbps" but rarely is. Price discount is "up to 50%" but only really one item is. When ever I see a "up to" click and bait now, I pass. Julien
_________________ HARDWARE DATABASE HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
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teddanson
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Post subject: Re: Is it just me...? Posted: 05 Jun 2020, 15:45 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 16 Nov 2018, 14:21 Posts: 1570 Location: New Delaware Has thanked: 448 times Been thanked: 496 times
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admin wrote: Is it one of the "DD+ 5.1 optimized for streaming" soundtracks with a very low bandwidth?
Julien Worse. Someone walked up to a computer with, I dunno let's say Pro Tools on it. Logged in. Opened the audio file. Had some bizarre fit and clicked everything in sight for about 5 minutes. Thought to themselves "Yes, that'll do". Clicked render file. Sent it off to whoever is in charge of their stuff. Drove home in their 1974 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser. Stopped off at Wendy's for a Baconator. Arrived home and drove their car in to their swimming pool, set fire to the cat and burned their house down. It's that bad.
_________________ Blog: The Coterie / L'boxd: Diary Pioneer CLD-R7G, CLD-D925 | Yamaha APD-2 | DVDO Edge, VP50 Pro
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laserfanhld-gb
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Post subject: Re: Is it just me...? Posted: 09 Jun 2020, 16:52 |
Advanced fan |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2019, 18:26 Posts: 569 Location: UK Has thanked: 258 times Been thanked: 237 times
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confederate wrote: That is the general problem with many streaming platforms. The audio simply isn't that great even though Netflix has improved over the past twelve months in my view. Even a DVD sometimes sounds better. I don't know. Video wise we have made so much progress over the past three decades but audio wise it is the other way around. Sure there are great sounding Blu Rays and even some DVDs that sound good but a lot of the stuff that can be streamed and downloaded sounds terrible. Same goes to many audio releases nowadays. A lot of the records that I have from the 80s simply sound perfect! I listened to the Top Gun soundtrack on vinyl yesterday and I was blown away. There are a lot of films in HD resolution that can only be purchased via Amazon, iTunes, etc. and they have crappy sound. In this case the best thing would be to extract the audio from the laserdisc and mux it with the video in HD resolution from your video download but that is not easy easy procedure.
I just think that people back in the day really cared about sound, about producing a great sounding vinyl record, laserdisc, etc. Have to say I totally agree with your posting confederate, more specifically for me the rot truly started to set in with the advent of the wonderful DVD format. As you mention above some do manage to sound pretty decent heard in isolation but if you are in a position to do a back to back comparison with the same material on LD the DVD usually falls down every time, on the other hand BD has at least taken things a good step forward regarding serious Home Cinema performance more so in terms of image quality though as I feel LD at its very best still has an overall edge on audio quality. I realise just going on paper specs alone Bluray audio surpasses Laserdisc, but judged subjectively I find it's often a different story.
_________________ Pioneer HLD-X9/CLD-925/CLD-2950 OPPO BDP-105D EU ARCAM AVR-600 JVC DLA-X7000BE Lumagen Radiance 2144
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confederate
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Post subject: Re: Is it just me...? Posted: 09 Jun 2020, 20:07 |
Advanced fan |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2013, 02:37 Posts: 726 Location: Germany Has thanked: 117 times Been thanked: 61 times
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laserfanhld-gb wrote: Have to say I totally agree with your posting confederate, more specifically for me the rot truly started to set in with the advent of the wonderful DVD format. As you mention above some do manage to sound pretty decent heard in isolation but if you are in a position to do a back to back comparison with the same material on LD the DVD usually falls down every time, on the other hand BD has at least taken things a good step forward regarding serious Home Cinema performance more so in terms of image quality though as I feel LD at its very best still has an overall edge on audio quality. I realise just going on paper specs alone Bluray audio surpasses Laserdisc, but judged subjectively I find it's often a different story.
Yes, I know several films that sound superb on Laserdisc even compared to the DTS-HA Master 5.1 track that can be often heard on a BluRay. One such example is The Bounty with Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson. The laserdisc track has crazy dynamics and sounds excellent. The Blu Ray most definitely sounds good but I just find the laserdisc's PCM 2.0 track sounds like it is truer to the source if you know what I mean. There is not a single DVD that sounds remotely as good as the same film on laserdisc. Therefore I often prefer laserdisc to DVD. Of course the Blu Ray of the Bounty looks a million times better than the laserdisc ( in fact the Blu Ray looks excellent ) so the best way would be to mux the two. Then I would be truly happy.
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: Is it just me...? Posted: 09 Jun 2020, 21:13 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 6004 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1300 times Been thanked: 1115 times
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It just sounds like you guys like stuff compressed. There’s nothing wrong with that and stuff that is made for it sounds better on it (Top Gun OST on LP, I have no doubt that’s a perfect match) but when it comes to super surround stuff at high volume levels CD/LD simply isn’t even close to modern digital sound schemes. You can’t make things quiet after a certain point and the highs get murked completely.
When older movies/albums are remastered into a space with massively more dynamic range it’s a difficult thing to pull off. If you match peak volume levels the noise will be unreal. If you expand the range then certain things will drop out or become overly bright. It’s not completely a square peg/round hole situation but it sort of is...you could just transfer it to the new format with zero changes but that’s going to mean you have to turn your system way up and if it’s a POS sound bar that’s going to sound terrible.
This is the sort of thing that people have a hard time verbalizing. In fact often the people who are most concerned about it are least literate when it comes to audio technology. People who understand audio at a more advanced level have the technical understanding but they are typically ideologically predisposed to believe everything new is better and an improvement on the old ways every time so they don’t really ponder the question. If you’ve done a lot of recording though...EQ, compression, expansion, it’s something you’ll reflexively understand.
Current gen digital surround has a SNR that is...what, 120bd or more? What in the real world generates sound that dynamic? A moon rocket? A top fuel dragster? Maybe. Certainly not a human voice, a guitar, a classic drum machine, swords clashing, or a punch to the face. In fact no mic has a that dynamic range, I’m pretty sure. The purpose of the extra range is so that the theater sound system can better represent the dynamic range of all of reality and then the sound designer plugs those elements into the matrix in the right places. For a human child whispering to be heard over Megatron’s head being ripped off in the middle of a hurricane you need massive range and frequency response that CD can’t pull off and nothing analog that’s even remotely affordable or practical could do it at all.
People are famous for saying that New Order’s original Factory 12” of Blue Monday pumps as hard as any dance record and I agree. If you’re super into wax to the point where you can tell what country something was pressed in just by looking at the grooves you can pretty much tell just by examining the way it’s cut by eye that this is a banger. At 45 RPM there is enough space to make the signal as loud as possible and the staccato nature of the sound makes it so that the drum hits are left alone preserving the pump of the DMX. It’s exactly 10lbs of sausage in a sack made for exactly 10lbs of sausage and even the CD versions won’t do it the same way.
Watching All in the Family on Bluray would be the opposite, a golf pencil in a mine shaft. Something like Top Gun would be half way between. Much more rockin but still there is nothing in the movie 120 louder than anything else so you have to f with it and at the same time make it 7.2 compatible and after all that is never going to be the same no matter how good of a job somebody does.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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