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It is currently 04 May 2024, 16:38
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: DTS Issue, receiver or rot? Posted: 02 Jul 2022, 10:55 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 6005 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1301 times Been thanked: 1115 times
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Dang, the ultimate 5.1 rot noob thread!
It’s the player, possibly grip ring related, possibly bad caps. It’s not the discs.
Also, yeah, we are helluva confused about the DTS/AC3 thing. They are totally separate things. Which one are we talking about?
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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sfmarine0311
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Post subject: Re: DTS Issue, receiver or rot? Posted: 02 Jul 2022, 16:45 |
Knows how to post |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2019, 19:28 Posts: 9 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 1 time
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Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies. I really appreciate it. Yeah...I'm still new to LD, but I enjoy the format. Be nice to get to the bottom of this issue. It's crazy how everything worked fine for me with my previous receiver. Now that I'm able to duplicate the issue on a brand new out of the box Denon...the plot thickens at this point. Still troubleshooting as best as I can. krbahr wrote: Curious about this comment "So I guess it's either rot or something up with my player? But why the heck would it play Jurassic Park with no issue? My 7020 is my only player with AC3 so I have no way of testing the DTS discs in another player. "
The DTS is in place of the digital audio track and has nothing to do with AC-3. Any player with a coax or optical digital output can give you the DTS output.
Have you ever had the normal digital stereo out of the optical or coax digital outputs also breakup? If the Strength of the RF output from the laser is starting to weaken the first thing you start to loose is the digital sound tracks were the DTS is also stored. Also depending on the quality of the pressing the strength of the RF output from the laser can vary from disc to disc, so when it is starting to go it does not happen the same on all discs. Thank you for the clarification. I've primarily had the player hooked up via optical. I have not had the digital stereo out breakup. Which is why I've narrowed this down to DTS issue. But then again...Jurassic Park plays fine. Along with DTS compact discs. ldfan wrote: You mention rot on your discs. Can you visually see the drops out in the video that would indicate laser rot?
If yes, laser rot can affect everything on the disc especially Dolby Digital (AC3) and DTS since both formats are lossy in nature and even a little bit of lost data can translate to pops and other audible distortion.
Another thing to consider is also your optical output (even though you said it worked fine on some discs) as maybe the light output is not as bright as it should be. Have you tried the coaxial digital out as well? Thanks for the reply. The odd thing is the video still plays fine and has no dropouts. I did try the coax digital as well. Still get the flashing DTS on (both) receivers and all the crazy distortion noises. signofzeta wrote: Dang, the ultimate 5.1 rot noob thread!
It’s the player, possibly grip ring related, possibly bad caps. It’s not the discs.
Also, yeah, we are helluva confused about the DTS/AC3 thing. They are totally separate things. Which one are we talking about? Haha...yeah I'm a noob! Guilty as charged! ..I got the DTS/AC3 thing all backwards. Talking about DTS. admin wrote: Have you tried both TOSLINK and Coax ?
Same result?
Julien Thanks for the reply, Julien. Yes...I get the same result. However, I have not tested the second receiver with Coax digital-only optical.
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sfmarine0311
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Post subject: Re: DTS Issue, receiver or rot? Posted: 03 Jul 2022, 19:54 |
Knows how to post |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2019, 19:28 Posts: 9 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 1 time
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krbahr wrote: As I mentioned above, if you take an oscilloscope and watch the RF coming from the laser you will see it returns various strengths off the disc. If the signal is just a little weak the digital decoding for the sound (this is where the DTS is also placed) will start to have dropouts way before you see any dropouts in the video. You can completely loose the digital tracks and the video still looks fine. You can open the player, adjust the RF level and experience this on any player.
With LD all discs are NOT pressed equally, normally a calibrated player is adjusted properly and these variations in RF signal will not cause dropouts but if the RF signal from the laser is weakening in the laser or electronics then the variations in the signal can cause dropouts, and YES some discs can play fine and others have dropouts.
The 7020 is a repackaged Pioneer CLD-97 (no McIntosh improvements, just many have an AC-3 board added and in a McIntosh package) and many of these have a problem with age where the signal in the unit signal degrades with time and they eventually totally stop playing. This is not the actual laser failing but somewhere in the electronics there is a failure, I have not had the time to trace the issue but I'm afraid it's going to be one of the IC's as I've done full cap replacement on the mainboard with no help. Appreciate that info….very unfortunate. Do you think the AC-3 would still work on the player? I was looking to pick up a Sony Ep9 or E800, but no point now if the player is acting up. It’s my only player with AC-3. I should’ve had the guy who sold me my S2 put it in. S2 is spinning well so it will be my primary player moving forward. It sure does have the fastest loading tray.
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cplusplus
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Post subject: Re: DTS Issue, receiver or rot? Posted: 04 Jul 2022, 18:23 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1525 Has thanked: 452 times Been thanked: 589 times
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krbahr wrote: The 7020 is a repackaged Pioneer CLD-97 (no McIntosh improvements, just many have an AC-3 board added and in a McIntosh package) and many of these have a problem with age where the signal in the unit signal degrades with time and they eventually totally stop playing. This is not the actual laser failing but somewhere in the electronics there is a failure, I have not had the time to trace the issue but I'm afraid it's going to be one of the IC's as I've done full cap replacement on the mainboard with no help. The CLD-91/92 has very similar video section to CLD-97. RF goes into PA5010 demod IC, then to PDB005 TBC and PDB006 memory/spindle control. There is something failing with these. I know of two situations where PA5010 can get really hot and draw so much -5V it burns the -5V supply. I don't think it is the IC, rather the IC is receiving insane input. For this MLD7020, is IC301 (surface-mount CXD2500) hot to the touch after it has been running a while? Another thing to check is PLL Gain adjustment.
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sfmarine0311
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Post subject: Re: DTS Issue, receiver or rot? Posted: 04 Jul 2022, 20:39 |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2019, 19:28 Posts: 9 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 1 time
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ldfan wrote: It would be great to find a reason for this issue for the sake of keeping the 97/7020 chassis running well into the future. I haven't tested my 97 in awhile but I didn't notice anything odd when playing digital sound discs.
I agree that it would be great to find out exactly what is causing the issue and perhaps prevent it on other 97/7020s. Perhaps I would have noticed the issue sooner if I owned more DTS discs. If Kurtis is still debugging these days and wants to look the player over I would gladly pay him for a once over. I also have a 7020 parts player.
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