Hi

I borrowed a Pioneer DVD-recorder, a DVR-545H, and found out that using it as a scaler actually improved the picture quality in my set-up.

There are pros and cons however. I do get a sharper picture and less noise, but when there is a lot of things going on in the picture, I sometimes do get a bit of that DVD characteristic "too-much-going-on-in-the-picture" digital distortions. Not a huge problem, though.

Also, there is a slight delay on the picture when channeled through the DVD-recorder, so I have to put the sound through the DVD-recorder as well. Not an ideal situation once I get a "new" surround set-up with an AC-3 input.

So I was wondering, if there are better alternatives to the DVR-545H? I am thinking about buying a used Panasonic, maybe a DMR-EH57. Any opinions on Panasonic-machines?

It is not a project that I want to invest a huge amount of money on, as I'm a going to replace the projector when the current bulb is finished. And hopefully that one will do the analogue-to-digital coverting better.

Indeed, DVD recorders are the most commonly available scalers. My Panasonics all came from the same thrift store over time, for far less then their eBay value when I got them!

I think the Panasonics also do MPEG encoding in-stream. Your best bet is to set it at the highest quality recording mode.

There's an entire thread about comb filters in DVD recorders you can look at. Generally earlier Panasonic recorders are good, and I have no idea which PAL ones to recommend.

Thanx.

Been reading that thread, lots of great info. Almost to much to cope with . Think I'll try a Panasonic and take it from there.

The models mentioned doesn't really seem to be found in Denmark, so it will be somewhat of a shot in the dark, though.

Is it a general opinion that older Panasonics have better comb-filters than the newer ones?

The best unit you can find in europe (but not cheap, sadly)
is the Pioneer DVR-LX 70.
Have a look around and see if you can get one at a good price.

Thanx for the tip!

Had a quick look around, but didn't find one, though. But there were a couple of DVR-LX60s for sale. I know it's the cheaper little brother. Are they good as scalers you think?

I have a Panasonic DMR-EA18 .... it makes nice DVD-r's but it's hard to find ANY information on what it has inside doing the work.

I just bought a Pioneer DVR-LX70D for $150 and I'm so excited about it. I'll come back with results as soon as I've tried it out.

Wow! Can't wait to hear about it! What have you used so far? Do you think the cheaper DVR-LX60D would be a decent alternative?

I have never used a scaler but the DVR-LX60D seems to be pretty good choice. I'll get my DVR-LX70D tomorrow, maybe I'll provide some screenshots if I manage to understand the technology. My TV has a pretty bad comb filter and doesn't support S-Video so there are good possibilites for improvements when it comes to picture quality.

By the way, the only difference between the LX70 and LX70D is that the D-model has a built in DVB-T reciever. It doesn't matter if you're using it as a scaler though. Same thing goes for LX60D but I've heard that the DVD-player on that model is region free out of the box whereas the LX60 isn't (simple modifications/hacks are available however).

I've tried it out now but it seems like the LX60D is mainly intended for HDTVs. The picture on my CRT gets slightly better in some eras (somewhat better chroma noise reduction) but I'm happy I didn't pay full price for it. I'll try it out on one of our modern TVs though, the difference should be a bit more noticeable then.

Now, I've tried some more features on the player and laborated with it. All I can say is that it makes a HUGE difference in terms of picture quality! With the right settings, the level of noise is incredibly low and the picture has very good textures as well. Colors get very clean and natural. Aliasing, color smear and rainbowing all seem to be more or less absent. There are moments when I feel like it looks a bit too much like a DVD (like ynz said), but I'm extremely satisfied with the recorder. I still haven't tried it out on a modern display though.

The LD-player used was a Pioneer CLD-R7G but I'll try with my 990 and D505 as well. I'm certain that the DVR-LX60 is a very good recorder as well but since I've never used one I can't say anything about it for sure.

EDIT: Just to give you an idea how it looks like, here are some screenshots. Please note that I haven't spend that much time calibrating the picture so there's still room for improvement (especially brightness and contrast). Also, these screenshots come from an MPEG2-compression so limitations should be expected. Very clean picture overall.

Jaws (Discovision, 1978)


Blade Runner (Criterion, CAV, 1987)



Mimi Wo Sumaseba (Animage, 1995)


Independence Day (Fox Video, 1997)


Napoleon (MCA Home Video, 1985)


And here's the same screenshot from the German DVD by the way.

Very cool info.

Seems that I have to do something about my recorder pretty soon!!

Is the haloing on the letterbox bars from the DVD recorder or baked into those LDs?

I had the sharpness set quite high on the CLD-R7G and I've seen it with during playback the same settings without the recorder. I think I'll take some more captures with lower sharpness on both the recorder and player but I don't think you have to worry about the halo. Like I said, I haven't calibrated the recorder completely yet.

EDIT: Just checked, the visible halo is definitely due to the settings on the Laserdisc-player. I'll keep that in mind when I'll give you some more screenshots.

I tried it out on our 42" HDTV through component (will try HDMI later). Looks quite good for Laserdisc and certainly much better when using the recorder as a scaler and comb filter. Maybe I'll update my own setup soon with a new TV.

Now I've got the TV in my room and I've tried out some discs. I think there are some haloing inbaked on this LD but it looks quite nice other than that.

To take up this old topic again

I'm looking into buying a old surround-amp with ac-3 input (maybe a Pioneer VSX-909RDS). However my DVD-recorder that I use for scaling does create a slight delay. So if I feed the sound of the laserdisc-player directly into an amp, it will be slightly out of sync with the picture going through the recorder.

Has anybody an idea how to get rid of this problem?

Can I delay the entire audio a bit on the amp. Have read through several manuals, and I'm not sure that there is such an audio-delay-function at all on thes older models, or can I buy another DVD-recorder that doesn't create the slight delay when scaling? In that case what PAL-models do not create delay?

Cheers/ Jens

I'd honestly rather recommend you to get a real VP. I haven't touched my DVR-LX70D since I got my DVDO Edge up and running.

Well - took your advice, bought a DVDO Edge. Can't wait for it to turn up so I can try it out. When I've tried it out, I will give you my opinion. Any recommendations about settings and stuff?

Enjoy!

Generally sound delays were added to deal with input lag in LCD's - which unfortunately means most of those were made well after AC3 RF went away!