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 Post subject: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 02:22 
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I have a Yamaha DDP-1 and it does not detect the AC-3 Signal coming out of my D504. I see no blown caps and the resistors are testing fine. None of the necessary chips are getting hot either. Neither the jack on the LD player or on the DDP-1 feel loose, and when I run the AC-3RF signal into a speaker, I do get a hum. I have tried several cables. Thin cables, thick cables, gold plated. I am using confirmed AC-3 discs (Highlander 10th Anniversary, Evil Dead Elite, Die Hard), nothing.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 02:33 
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OK some stupid questions.
Are you running the same cable in and out.
I.E. using an RCA from the LD to the decoder and then the decoder to the amplifier?

Do you have the LD on first with AC-3 then turn on the DDP-1?

That's all I can think of right now, others should comment.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 02:43 
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Yes, using the green plug on a set of monster component cables, figured they would meet resistance requirements like how coax requires 75ohms.
I've tried both on at the same time, LD first then Yamaha first
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 03:52 
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So you're not getting a lock I assume on the front display on the DDP1?

Does the DDP1 indicate a lock when using a DVD player on the "digital" input of the unit? If it doesn't work, then one can assume there is something wrong w/ the Yamaha. If it does work, then we need to figure out if the RF out of the player is the issue or the RF in of the DDP1.

As for the LD player, a simple voltage test (if you have a voltmeter) will verify if it works as you will get anywhere from a 3.6 to 4.5 vdc on the AC3-RF jack.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 04:55 
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ldfan wrote:
So you're not getting a lock I assume on the front display on the DDP1?

Does the DDP1 indicate a lock when using a DVD player on the "digital" input of the unit? If it doesn't work, then one can assume there is something wrong w/ the Yamaha. If it does work, then we need to figure out if the RF out of the player is the issue or the RF in of the DDP1.

As for the LD player, a simple voltage test (if you have a voltmeter) will verify if it works as you will get anywhere from a 3.6 to 4.5 vdc on the AC3-RF jack.


I neglected to look at the AC-3 decoder chip. It gets very hot, so I can assume the chip is bad, and the micro controller isn't getting information from the decoder that it's receiving an AC-3 signal of any kind. Going through the AC-3RF area of the boards, none of the traces are damaged and all the components seem to be tip top shape. Looking at the datasheet for the final chip in the AC-3RF circuit, it sends the decoder an S/PDIF signal, I wonder if I can tap into that with an optical transmitter or an RCA jack, could I forgo the decoder and let my receiver do the decoding.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 05:55 
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tgotr wrote:

I neglected to look at the AC-3 decoder chip. It gets very hot, so I can assume the chip is bad,....


I don't think one can simply assume that a chip running hot means it's bad. Most AC3 standalone decoders do run hot in general especially the Sony, SDP-E800


tgotr wrote:
.....and the micro controller isn't getting information from the decoder that it's receiving an AC-3 signal of any kind.


Did you verify this on the standard digital inputs as I suggested w/ a DVD player? The optical and coaxial inputs. And make sure the DVD player has its digital output set to "Bitstream/Dolby Digital" instead of "PCM".


tgotr wrote:
Going through the AC-3RF area of the boards, none of the traces are damaged and all the components seem to be tip top shape. Looking at the datasheet for the final chip in the AC-3RF circuit, it sends the decoder an S/PDIF signal, I wonder if I can tap into that with an optical transmitter or an RCA jack, could I forgo the decoder and let my receiver do the decoding.


Not sure what you are asking here. Can you clarify. It almost sounds like you want to bypass the AC3-RF section and run digital direct but what good would come of that since that's essentially the same thing you can do when I mentioned running a DVD player to the optical or coaxial digital input on the unit. Also, you obviously want to use this unit for LaserDisc AC3 and that just defeats the purpose of what you originally wanted the DDP1 for in the first place.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 15:02 
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ldfan wrote:
tgotr wrote:

I neglected to look at the AC-3 decoder chip. It gets very hot, so I can assume the chip is bad,....


I don't think one can simply assume that a chip running hot means it's bad. Most AC3 standalone decoders do run hot in general especially the Sony, SDP-E800


I used to have a DDP-1 and the decoder didn't run hot, usually a few degrees above room temperature. This one is noticeably hot to the touch. Plus I measured the VCC line and noticed it was getting more voltage than it was rated for (It was getting 12V, the Datasheet says it uses 4.75 to 5.25)

ldfan wrote:
tgotr wrote:
.....and the micro controller isn't getting information from the decoder that it's receiving an AC-3 signal of any kind.


Did you verify this on the standard digital inputs as I suggested w/ a DVD player? The optical and coaxial inputs. And make sure the DVD player has its digital output set to "Bitstream/Dolby Digital" instead of "PCM".


I do not have a DVD player with digital outs My DVD players are cheapos, and so is my BD player which just has HDMI out.

ldfan wrote:
tgotr wrote:
Going through the AC-3RF area of the boards, none of the traces are damaged and all the components seem to be tip top shape. Looking at the datasheet for the final chip in the AC-3RF circuit, it sends the decoder an S/PDIF signal, I wonder if I can tap into that with an optical transmitter or an RCA jack, could I forgo the decoder and let my receiver do the decoding.


Not sure what you are asking here. Can you clarify. It almost sounds like you want to bypass the AC3-RF section and run digital direct but what good would come of that since that's essentially the same thing you can do when I mentioned running a DVD player to the optical or coaxial digital input on the unit. Also, you obviously want to use this unit for LaserDisc AC3 and that just defeats the purpose of what you originally wanted the DDP1 for in the first place.


The YM34360 takes in the Demodulated signal and makes it into an S/PDIF signal which is sent to the AC-3 Decoder...according to the datasheet. If I can take the S/PDIF signal from the YM34360 and feed it to the proper output connection, I can theoretically bypass the AC-3 Decoder and have my receiver do the work.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 15:52 
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If your receiver has AC-3 then you can bypass, otherwise you can't.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 16:15 
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rein-o wrote:
If your receiver has AC-3 then you can bypass, otherwise you can't.


Do I need to use Optical or can I just hook the S/PDIFF signal up through COAX RCA?
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 18:48 
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I'm sorry.
You need to take pictures of what you have to someone here can figure out your issue.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:11 
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tgotr wrote:
The YM34360 takes in the Demodulated signal and makes it into an S/PDIF signal which is sent to the AC-3 Decoder...according to the datasheet. If I can take the S/PDIF signal from the YM34360 and feed it to the proper output connection, I can theoretically bypass the AC-3 Decoder and have my receiver do the work.


Okay. Now I understand what you want to do.

Since the DDP1 does not have an S/PDIF output, you want to add one so you can then route the AC3 Digital signal back to an AV Receiver that has a digital input so you can have that process the 5.1 audio (instead of using the 5.1 analog output of the DDP1).

This is doable and has been discussed on this post...

https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1202

However, you still have an issue of not getting this unit to even lock on AC3 as is. Thus, I would focus on getting that worked out first since at this point you would be wasting time trying to add an output if the unit is not working in the first place.

Also, since you don't have a DVD player to test it on, what other devices do you have that could test it? An HD Cable or DBS STB can be used as well or even a TV w/ a digital out (if you have Digital OTA reception).
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 22:10 
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ldfan wrote:
tgotr wrote:
The YM34360 takes in the Demodulated signal and makes it into an S/PDIF signal which is sent to the AC-3 Decoder...according to the datasheet. If I can take the S/PDIF signal from the YM34360 and feed it to the proper output connection, I can theoretically bypass the AC-3 Decoder and have my receiver do the work.


Okay. Now I understand what you want to do.

Since the DDP1 does not have an S/PDIF output, you want to add one so you can then route the AC3 Digital signal back to an AV Receiver that has a digital input so you can have that process the 5.1 audio (instead of using the 5.1 analog output of the DDP1).

This is doable and has been discussed on this post...

https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1202

However, you still have an issue of not getting this unit to even lock on AC3 as is. Thus, I would focus on getting that worked out first since at this point you would be wasting time trying to add an output if the unit is not working in the first place.

Also, since you don't have a DVD player to test it on, what other devices do you have that could test it? An HD Cable or DBS STB can be used as well or even a TV w/ a digital out (if you have Digital OTA reception).


If my Theory is correct that the decoder is bad, then the microprocessor can't see that it's locking onto a signal and drive the display that it's decoding a signal.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 22:28 
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If your voltage measurements are correct (and I assume they are), then it would appear hopeless to do anything with this unit now since the chip is probably damaged from the heat.

Probably be best to see about acquiring a different decoder that has an S/PDIF out already provided so you can just use it as an AC3-RF Demodulator. The one’s that have those outputs are the Sony, SDP-EP9ES & SDP-E800 and the Denon, AVD-2000 that I can recall (might be others but not sure).
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 23:12 
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ldfan wrote:
If your voltage measurements are correct (and I assume they are), then it would appear hopeless to do anything with this unit now since the chip is probably damaged from the heat.

Probably be best to see about acquiring a different decoder that has an S/PDIF out already provided so you can just use it as an AC3-RF Demodulator. The one’s that have those outputs are the Sony, SDP-EP9ES & SDP-E800 and the Denon, AVD-2000 that I can recall (might be others but not sure).


I dunno if the E-800 is part of the list. The back panel makes it look like the output is linked for use for the Digital 3 input only

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 23:22 
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OK Thank you for the pic.
When I owned a Pioneer unit like this I had to connect it this way:

LD AC-3 out into the black AC-3 in. Then the separate outs into my receiver.

Doing that Front, Center etc. Into my AV receiver that had separate INs

Have you tried that, from what I remember that was the only way to get the audio to work on my unit.
There would have been another way but it never worked for me.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 23:51 
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tgotr wrote:

I dunno if the E-800 is part of the list. The back panel makes it look like the output is linked for use for the Digital 3 input only

Image


It will work on all the inputs except Digital 3 and Analog to pass Dolby Digital, PCM, and DTS. I own one so I know.


Last edited by ldfan on 10 Nov 2018, 21:10, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2018, 00:37 
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Thank you ldfan.

So seems like you are SOL and the unit is broken.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2018, 02:10 
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ldfan wrote:
tgotr wrote:

I dunno if the E-800 is part of the list. The back panel makes it look like the output is linked for use for the Digital 3 input only

Image


It will work on all the inputs except Digital 3 to pass Dolby Digital, PCM, and DTS. I own one so I know.


Thank you for clearing that up. I am eying a Denon and now that one on Ebay right now.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 18:21 
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Yamaha APD-1 on ebay right now for $65. Of course you would have coax and optical outs available to you to use. :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha DDP-1, can not get it to recognize AC-3 RF signal
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 19:11 
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dilb wrote:
Yamaha APD-1 on ebay right now for $65. Of course you would have coax and optical outs available to you to use. :thumbup:


But it's not a "Buy It Now" item. It's the starting bid w/ $10 shipping and will probably go up from there. There is also another one starting @ $40 for local pick-up only (wonder how many people in Minnesota are really looking for an AC3-RF Demodulator :wtf:) so it might go for less. Anyway, I always find these outboard demodulators overpriced because people don't realize there are other options.

If one is patient enough, a deal can be had for a Sony, SDP-E800 (or other processor) for quite a small chunk of money. I got mine on ebay a few months back for $80 out the door w/ the remote and in fairly good condition. Then a few months later, I picked up a very clean Denon, AVD-2000 for about $90 (I think) but with no remote.


Update.......

The final sale price for the $65 Yamaha AC3-RF Demodulator...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-APD-1-R ... 3467880010

....and the $40 model for "local pick up only"....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-APD-1-R ... 2993062282

I had a feeling the latter would not sell for much (if it was actually sold or not) due to shipping limitations.


Last edited by ldfan on 11 Nov 2018, 17:51, edited 3 times in total.
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