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 Post subject: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2021, 08:33 
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Hello,

I've just recently joined the LDDB about a month ago, when I decided to buckle down and get my first LaserDisc player, the DVL-700 (despite some housewarming hitches, a picture-jitter whenever pausing the movie, and sometimes having to jump a second or two after switching sides, it's been virtually flawless for me.) as well as my first batch of LaserDiscs from a nearby Goodwill. I've been intending to get into LDs for a few years, but a lack of disposable income, no real space, and a distressing lack of real-world attention( :( ) means I haven't gotten the muster to buckle down with the format; however, with the former two problems resolved, I now hope to expand my collection and see what we Millennium-kids have been missing out on!

:?: I know I've already gotten my first toes dipped into the LD pool, but if you guys can give off any recommendations to start off in regards to a proper LD collection (be it movies, extra accessories beyond the remote, or even another player to look out for), it would be great to hear about it! Before I start chasing a golden goose, is it worth finding a LaserKareoke player if I already have a regular player (I've been eyeballing a DVL-V888/K88 myself)? Also, do you know where to update the database for players? I want to get my DVL-700 in the database proper soon.

Thanks for reading through this and with me luck as I sail through the LD seas!
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2021, 16:38 
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Jitter may be just a normal issue with analog to the digital TV, I have that same issue.

Side B may be normal or it may need a slight adjustment, but I wouldn't mess with it.
If you see a bar right before it starts to play then that's just the image getting synced with the TV and laser inside.
Hard to explain and would be easier in a video.

Good luck with collecting, as for other players unless you have lots of money just enjoy what you have, and look for and pickup working players.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2021, 20:16 
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Weclome.

Picture-jitter on CAV with modern TVs is common. The Side B skipping (at the start) is also common for DVLs.

Only thing I would recommend is Video Essentials LD (make sure it includes the blue filter). Maybe an AC-3 RF demodulator if you want to do a 5.1 setup.

If you want to get a Karaoke player, I would probably go with a cheaper unit than a DVL-V.

As for the hardware database, it is currently under construction.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2021, 21:17 
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Didn't know about that with DVL's, I think I had a 909 once but didn't have it long enough.
Ah those were the days when you could ship without having issues.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2021, 22:44 
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rein-o wrote:
Didn't know about that with DVL's

Yeah I had to adjust side B tangential and centering on probably 4-5 DVLs. Kurtis has also said the tracks sometimes suffer from imperfections.

I would not go near these adjustments though unless you have a test disc and oscilloscope. Side B centering is so fine that even removing my flathead causes the envelope to change. I have to recheck after I tighten the locking screw back before I lock it in place with nail polish.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2021, 07:07 
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Good to see that it wasn't my machine acting up! I got mine used from an eBay seller a few months ago and after seeing the player hitch up when removing the LD tray, necessitating a 30degree tilt on the machine to get it to work (it got better), I though that would be another thing to fix.

Any good recommendations regarding AC-3 decoding? I know there's a thread about them somewhere on the forum, but with how many options there are (decoder boxes, amps with built-in decoders, preamps), very little real-life reference points, and with how expensive most of the decoding tools are, I want to see what's the best option for modern displays. For reference, my main TVs are 65" 4K capable Roku TVs with only a digital out port and one set of RCA cables (it's one of those RF/composite straight to HDMI affairs), with a backup Vizio HDTV that uses S-Video and a digital out port, and a CRT from 2009 that takes coaxial out (but mono only for the composite setup...)

What is this Video Essentials and what's the significance behind the blue filter for it? Do you know any good hang-out spots for would-be LD collectors outside of the database? It seems that even with the big analog revival going on, no one outside of here cares that much about the format.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2021, 11:35 
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rein-o wrote:
Jitter may be just a normal issue with analog to the digital TV, I have that same issue.

Yeah, I have the same issue as well. Interestingly, it disappears if I switch the player from NTSC to PAL output and back!
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2021, 18:24 
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tomiopeeper1868 wrote:
Any good recommendations regarding AC-3 decoding? I know there's a thread about them somewhere on the forum, but with how many options there are (decoder boxes, amps with built-in decoders, preamps), very little real-life reference points, and with how expensive most of the decoding tools are, I want to see what's the best option for modern displays. For reference, my main TVs are 65" 4K capable Roku TVs with only a digital out port and one set of RCA cables (it's one of those RF/composite straight to HDMI affairs), with a backup Vizio HDTV that uses S-Video and a digital out port, and a CRT from 2009 that takes coaxial out (but mono only for the composite setup...)

What is this Video Essentials and what's the significance behind the blue filter for it? Do you know any good hang-out spots for would-be LD collectors outside of the database? It seems that even with the big analog revival going on, no one outside of here cares that much about the format.

I don't know of a cheap way to demodulate AC-3 from an LD player (important distinction: these devices demodulate the radio signal to get the digital AC-3 encoded signal, and another device like an AV receiver must decode it to 5.1-channel sound from there); I'd expect to drop at least $200 on whatever you get. Nobody makes devices for this functionality anymore, so unfortunately the price is only likely to go up as long as anyone still cares about them. (EDIT: See ldfan's reply below. Today I learned about alternatives to the stand-alone demodulators!)

That said, do I understand correctly that your next question is about what the best sound options are with a modern display? These shouldn't have much to do with each other unless you don't have a surround speaker setup. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about AC-3. It shouldn't offer any other advantage over the regular digital stereo tracks besides the discrete surround and subwoofer channels, and it has the added disadvantage of being compressed. If you're getting your sound out of the TV, just use the red/white cables and don't worry about it.

Video Essentials is a display/speaker calibration disc with freeze-frame test patterns and such so you can adjust your equipment to show LDs correctly. The blue filter in particular is for color bar tests, so you can check that there isn't blue tint in colors that shouldn't have any (red, green, yellow).

I don't use Reddit, but there's an r/laserdisc subreddit. It's funny you mention the "analog revival" going on, though, because to me it seems like the most-lauded point of LD today is the quality of its digital soundtracks. On the audio side of things LDs are more like the CDs that the vinyl-or-nothing die-hards can't abide, minus the accusations of reduced effective dynamic range due to the Loudness Wars in the music industry. I would say that LDs are part of the "sweet covers revival" though.


Last edited by rcarlson on 16 Jan 2021, 22:22, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2021, 20:57 
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I'm selling an AC-3 decoder for Grasshopper but its not going to be cheap.
Its a really nice meridian decoder.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2021, 21:56 
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tomiopeeper1868 wrote:

Any good recommendations regarding AC-3 decoding? I know there's a thread about them somewhere on the forum, but with how many options there are (decoder boxes, amps with built-in decoders, preamps), very little real-life reference points, and with how expensive most of the decoding tools are, I want to see what's the best option for modern displays.


First of all, in case I wasn't reading this correctly, AC3 decoding and modern displays are totally separate things. AC3 is just Dolby Digital audio and thus has nothing to do w/ video (there are plenty of video processing options out there to try and upconvert composite video to HD).

As for AC3 decoding, the best option in my opinion is to hunt down any of the audio processors that also include an S/PDIF output. These units are a better value compared to a standalone AC3-RF Demodulator that are currently way overpriced because some people think that is the only way to go. The models I recommend looking for are the Sony SDP-EP9ES, Sony SDP-E800, and Denon AVD-2000. I would save a search on ebay and just patiently keep an eye out for any new one's offered that are cheap (I think I picked up my SDP-E800 and AVD-2000 for about $70 each if I recall correctly about three years ago). And if and when you get a hold of one of these, you just hook it up like an AC3-RF Demodulator w/ the S/PDIF output going to your current AV Receiver (so you just use it as a switch box instead of a processor).
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2021, 07:03 
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Hi Tomiopeeper1868,

I have just read your introduction

I can tell that you have garnered a passion for the Laserdisc Format.

You have by what I read gone through your own Journey and other life trials, of which I can relate to.

Well done with getting this far and keep going.

I am personally interested to read of your progress.


Sincerest Regards to you and thank you for your contribution to the site.

:thumbup: :wave:
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2021, 07:26 
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ldfan wrote:
As for AC3 decoding, the best option in my opinion is to hunt down any of the audio processors that also include an S/PDIF output. These units are a better value compared to a standalone AC3-RF Demodulator that are currently way overpriced because some people think that is the only way to go. The models I recommend looking for are the Sony SDP-EP9ES, Sony SDP-E800, and Denon AVD-2000. I would save a search on ebay and just patiently keep an eye out for any new one's offered that are cheap (I think I picked up my SDP-E800 and AVD-2000 for about $70 each if I recall correctly about three years ago). And if and when you get a hold of one of these, you just hook it up like an AC3-RF Demodulator w/ the S/PDIF output going to your current AV Receiver (so you just use it as a switch box instead of a processor).

I was gonna say this; you can probably get a home theater amp or pre-amp with built-in AC-3 for less than a standalone AC-3 demodulator, for the reasons described above. Of course, if you already have a home theater amp, you'll probably want to get one with a pre-amp outputs so you can daisychain them together.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2021, 19:09 
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rcarlson wrote:
The blue filter in particular is for color bar tests

Yeah you look through the filter at your display and adjust color so the white/blue bars on the sides match. Then you go to hue/tint settings and just so the inner two bars match.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2021, 05:55 
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Well, after a month of waiting for it to arrive (purchased on January 22, but arriving today), I got my own Dolby AC-3 demodulator (Marantz DP870), but as of right now, I can’t tell if it’s doing anything right now. After connecting the proper cables to where they need to be, I still can’t get the AC-3 tracks to play on any of the AC-3 movies I have (it just defaults to 1/L as if there’s nothing there). Anybody know if I’m missing something in my setup? (Yes, I am aware the AC-3 tracks were designed for a 5-speaker setup, but what’s going on on my end seems to suggest something else I’m forgetting about beyond that)
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2021, 07:32 
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Did you connect an RCA cable from your player labeled "AC3-RF Out" to an input on the Marantz called "AC3-RF In" and choose that input?

Also, sounds like you are assuming that pressing the "audio monitor" button while in analog mode is supposed to choose the AC3 track. That is not how AC3 works on LD so I can only assume you mistakenly tried to connect your right channel analog output to the Marantz if that is the case.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2021, 09:19 
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After tinkering around with the cable setup, I was able to get a response from the DP870 regarding the AC-3 tracks (the indicator for AC-3 activity came on during the proper tracks and it was playing the AC-3 tracks because, after removing every other audio input outside of the control environment, I was able to isolate that from the standard music). The only things that threw me off we’re that the AC-3 indicator light was red when every other indicator on the DP870 was green and I still can’t seem to switch to AC-3 on the LD player I have (DVL-700), so maybe someone can figure out what that’s about.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2021, 09:54 
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Did you choose the “RF” input on the front of the DP-870?

In any case, this processor doesn’t have a lot when it comes to indicator displays such as to show if you are decoding two channel PCM or Dolby Digital discrete.

Best way to test it would be to at least hook up a pair of self powered speakers to at least the front left and right to see if any sound comes out of it. Also, download the manual and read up on what the indicator lights represent.

https://www.vintageshifi.com/repertoire ... Manual.pdf
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2021, 15:54 
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Photo to show how you connected is needed to make sure there is no user error.


EDIT: and they wonder why correct decoder/demodulators are still expensive..........


Last edited by rein-o on 20 Feb 2021, 19:52, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2021, 17:19 
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tomiopeeper1868 wrote:
[...] and I still can’t seem to switch to AC-3 on the LD player I have (DVL-700), so maybe someone can figure out what that’s about.

I have a CLD (also Pioneer), not a DVL, but if your player's like mine you don't actually have to switch to AC-3 on the player itself. It outputs the conventional audio over red-white RCA and digital simultaneously as AC-3 over the RF RCA out. In fact the only way I can trick the AC-3 into not outputting when an AC-3 track is present is to switch the player's audio mode to Analog right-channel (where the AC-3 track resides). Anyway, I'd check your player's manual, but I suspect the problem may be simpler than you think. And like rein-o said, photos are the best way to consult forums for troubleshooting.
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 Post subject: Re: New LD Inductee
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2021, 18:40 
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tomiopeeper1868 wrote:
After tinkering around with the cable setup, I was able to get a response from the DP870 regarding the AC-3 tracks (the indicator for AC-3 activity came on during the proper tracks and it was playing the AC-3 tracks because, after removing every other audio input outside of the control environment, I was able to isolate that from the standard music). The only things that threw me off we’re that the AC-3 indicator light was red when every other indicator on the DP870 was green and I still can’t seem to switch to AC-3 on the LD player I have (DVL-700), so maybe someone can figure out what that’s about.


There is no switching to be done on the LD player. The AC-3 RF jack is at all times outputting AC-3 if it exists on the LD, if not it is muted. All your issues are outside of the player.

If you don’t have a real surround system, if you are using an RF demod to listen to sound over TV speakers or a sound bar you need to sell the demodulator because you have no use for it. Use the digital stereo tracks. All regular members should be stating this clearly to noobs since they seem to be obsessed with AC-3 for some reason even when they have literally zero use for it.
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