Curious about peoples thoughts and experiences with THX laserdiscs (strictly the LD mastering/manufacturing certification not the audio/equipment certification).

Thinking about it after last night watching this version of Undiscovered Country Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991) [PILF-1771] and it's noticeably better PQ than the allegedly THX US release Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991) (Uncut) [LV 32301-WS].

Over the years it's been my experience that while there don't seem to be any really bad THX releases, that the logo on the disc sleeve is no real guarantee you'll get anything any better (or worse) than many of discs in my collection. There are non-THX discs that equal (or exceed?) even the best of the THX ones. So apart from perhaps weeding out anything real dodgy it didn't result any real overall improvement; I'm sure because most people involved in the process were doing the best they could with or without THX certification. So regardless of the original intention did this just end up a fee collecting exercise by Lucasfilm?

I know very little about this but do remember some stuff when these were new, the discs that had the THX logo not these earlier discs like this or Apocalypse Now.

I believe from what I remember the beginning was something that was great, a standard that others hadn't used at the time.
But then it became more of a money grab and people would just buy THX.

I don't know much about this sort of thing, either. But if I'm correct in my thinking, a THX "certified" LaserDisc (or any other movie/format for that matter) doesn't amount to very much if you're not playing it on THX certified equipment. I've never heard a THX home theatre system, so I can't say whether or not this standard makes any meaningful difference.

I never bothered worrying about such standards, so THX branding wasn't something that influenced my movie choices. Back in "the day" my home theatre processor was a Pioneer VSX-D901S and it sounded great, whether I was watching a THX movie or not. These days, I don't have the space for a 5.1 surround sound home theatre setup, so THX is still useless to me.

It was possible to build an all THX home system back in the day. IIRC there was one (1) THX LD player made, one of those boutique models. There are THX VHS tapes...which is a joke in itself...and there are no THX VCRs...two jokes.

As for the label itself...people like Star Wars a Lot. I think that was %90 of it. It’s also a real bummer to spend $20,000 on a home theater and find out the LD you just bought looks like crap so it would be nice if there was some sort of minimal standard. However, for at least two reasons this doesn’t make a ton of sense here. One is that the LDs are really just LDs. The other is that the only movies that get a THX treatment are mega budget blockbuster stuff that never really had a bad transfer in any of the dozen or more LD iterations that existed before and after a THX versions.

I also think that when we watch LDs on massive HDTVs many of the extra touches they put into these transfers are invisible or make the image look worse because they were made to game CRTs.

THX certification meant the material and/or the equipment were above a certain quality but this threshold was not very high. Manufacturers had to spend extra money and time to obtain THX certs which meant they only included this on their higher end models with higher price points. One major criticism for THX cert equipment was that they performed very poorly on music. (Because they were highly tuned for movie soundtracks and cinema style seating). People that spent the money on the higher end models wanted great sounding (musically) speakers and amplifiers. So the target customer didn’t care for it. As a matter of fact ignored THX cert equipment (especially THX speakers).

After this you started seeing statements in the magazine from high end gear manufacturers that their equipment would far exceed THX standards but they choose not to go through the THX certification. For instance, Runco LJRII was the first and only THX certified LD player (which is a modified Panasonic 900u in essence). One magazine reviewed this player along side with a Pioneer CLD-97. The 97 and the LJRII were extremely close. The 97 actually performed better than the LJR in multiple tests. Pioneer rep claimed they could have gotten the THX cert if they wanted but they didn’t want to pay THX for royalties which would mean a required increase on their MSRP.

On the video side, THX titles often had digital video noise reduction applied. This was the next best thing at the time and taken as progress. Now we know better and we are better off without it. THX certification on content was never fully explained. It perhaps required a base signal to noise ratio. The content below this ratio needed noise reduction with at the time state of the art but right now antiquated equipment.

I bough my first AV receiver in 1998 which was a Denon AVC-1D. It was the first THX certified DD/DTS capable receiver. At the time I looked at KEF, B&W, and M&K for THX certified speakers. They all sounded terrible for music. B&W and KEF had non-THX certified speakers and they sounded great for music. I ended up building a 5.1 set with non-THX Definitive Technology BP30 fronts, BP10 as rears, CLR1000 center, and a PF1500 subwoofer. I tried using the THX mode on the Denon but never liked the sound.

I think that in order to make THX Certification levels, the LD makers (most likely the studios providing the transfer to the LD pressers) they had to meet certain certain criteria for sound and video, and unfortunately that meant a lot of edge enhancement, color retouching and whatnot that adds up to flaws when viewed on an HD displays. In the SD CRT world, those "visual enhancements" may have made the picture look better, but not so much these days.

Total HoaX

Thanks audioboyz1973 - brilliant

Something else that probably should be mentioned...

You know how when you get a Bluray that is just a total cracker and it gets you excited about the format itself and you buy another movie? And then when play it you realize that not every Bluray is Lawrence of Arabia, some look pretty bad? That was a thing with LD but even worse probably. Not only are there LDs that are just terrible some of them cost $100+. I think the THX thing may have just started when a guy bought...I don’t know, Star Wars probably and it looked amazing and then when he got excited about movies from that he bought Time Bandits or anything with Sonny Chiba in it and was very disappointed.

If you could see the LDDB user “letter grade” for an LD before you bought it, like if you KNEW it was as good as the Goldeneye LD, you’d appreciate that, right? I think that was the idea. I just didn’t work. Also, we’re not talking about The Magnificent Ambersons or Metropolis, THX usually means Die Hard or Jurassic Park or some other movie that was made relatively recently and at no point was ever not making money hand over fist for the studio so there would never be any way the prints would fall apart or whatever. You’re getting the ultimate restoration of stuff that never fell apart.

I wonder...for any movie that was not a new release, is there a situation where there is a THX version of a movie and a non-THX one that is more like a typical mediocre LD? Maybe American Graffiti? I wouldn’t know. ET? I’m just wondering what the biggest difference can be between THX and non-THX versions of the same movie. I have Lady and the Tramp (1955) [14673 AS] and that for sure has to look better than an earlier release. I wouldn’t imagine any version of Pump Fiction would look bad.

IS THX even relevant in today's movies? I've not seen anything mentioning THX in a long time unless its the older titles being released on BD. Haven't seen any streaming titles with it. But now it seems to be a waste where as others have mentioned was a standard of quality now not so much.

Maybe Jaws (1975) [41086] and Jaws (1975) [42629]?
Only a 4 year difference between them and both are from Pioneer. I only have the former though so I can't check.

IIRC Pan’s Labyrinth (non-US release) was the only THX release on HD-DVD. On Blu-ray, there is only a handful. The first was Indiana Jones 4 which came out many years after the initial BD titles. I believe there is non on 4K. Ironically, Panasonic UB9000 4K BD player is THX certified.

Jaws (1975) [41086] and Jaws (1975) [42629]?
Only a 4 year difference between them and both are from Pioneer. I only have the former though so I can't check.

I use to own both and still have the latter.
The THX copy is much less soft overall and the underwater parts looks remarkably better.
Marginal sound improvement to my earholes, noticeable mostly in the scores.
My small input, i gave away my 41086 copy

THX still seems to be a thing for equipment; but has definitely gone by the wayside so far as software goes.

Found this comment elsewhere: "I always considered THX to mean guaranteed not to suck. The equipment is good but you can get non certified equipment that is just as good for less."

Interesting. I know a lot of the Bond films had THX releases in the late 90's but with ~8 years difference in play, it would be hard to say if a picture improvement would be due to Pioneer getting even better at mastering and replication.

I've had a mix of THX certified equipment come through my theater over the years. The place I've found it most relevant is in amplification. THX amplification standards, especially Ultra/Ultra2, are legit. My current amplifier is an Adcom 7500 which does 5x220w @ 4ohm. I needed a 4ohm stable amplifier as my L/C/R are Monoprice THX-LCR (Ultra) in-walls rated at 4ohm with dips to 3.2ohm. I didn't specifically seek out a THX amplifier, just one capable of at least 150w @ 4ohm (what I needed for THX reference level in my theater), and a deal happened to present itself in the form of the Adcom 7500.

I don't find the THX certification to mean all that much in most other pieces of equipment, especially source devices (there is one THX-certified UHD player), stand-alone pre-processors, or the processing sections of AVRs (though you have to take it to get the amplification). Most of the THX features in processors or the processing section of AVRs have been copied by the manufacturers at this point and/or are irrelevant these days anyway (Re-Eq, etc).

One of the most lasting and helpful legacies of THX-certification, though, has been the normalization around an 80hz speaker/subwoofer crossover point. For folks that don't have the time, equipment, or know how to better integrate their speakers/subwoofer, the 80hz crossover with 100hz LFE lowpass is an extremely helpful rule-of-thumb that gets them 90% of the way there and takes some of the stress of the low-end off of the amplifier when the speakers aren't usually capable of reproducing it anyway. I stick with it for any system with speakers capable of at least 65hz F3 and usually even override Audyssey when it tries to set it lower.