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 Post subject: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film print?
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2023, 13:32 
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Is this just natural film print issues or would you consider that rot? Just bought Cutting Class laserdisc recently and the beginning of the movie it shows black speckle but it goes away after a min or so and then I believe there a couple other scenes where it happens at. I believe it's just natural film print damage but that's amazing that they didn't care for the film print much when I believe this movie came out in 1989 and the laserdisc is from 1991. Oh yeah, I believe they said this movie was actually filmed in 1987 and released in 1989. Don't know if that's accurate or if I misheard something. It's going to be hard to tell by these screen captures but in motion it's a lot of black speckle. I still think it's film print damage but I don't know how that happened with in a 4 year span. They really don't take care of film prints at all?

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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2023, 18:20 
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My guess would be film damage; best way to be absolutely sure (if this question's really burning you) would be to compare with another disc. I wouldn't assume it's because of lack of care, though. They might have only had cheap, s****y film or cheap, s****y cameras to shoot with and no budget for reshoots, and damaged spots on the negative will show up as black specks on the positive regardless of how long it's been since shooting.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2023, 14:47 
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Haven't you ever seen a non-pristine film print before?
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2023, 13:56 
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Quite some movies on laserdisc used a release print as master - not the best option when the print is in less-than-pristine shape like in this case; still, a good option for the time, as laserdisc is only SD.

But it's good, because, taking in account the color variations due to the laserdisc format itself, it's possible to watch the movie as it was seen in the theaters; it could be a good color reference (if colors are tweaked properly).
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2023, 22:26 
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Some of the smaller black marks do look like possible damage in the original print, but others particularly the one in the guys hair in the first photo look like the sort of classic black speckle you might encounter on a laserdisc that suffers from laser rot.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2023, 23:53 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
Some of the smaller black marks do look like possible damage in the original print, but others particularly the one in the guys hair in the first photo look like the sort of classic black speckle you might encounter on a laserdisc that suffers from laser rot.


Agree!
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2023, 15:57 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
Some of the smaller black marks do look like possible damage in the original print, but others particularly the one in the guys hair in the first photo look like the sort of classic black speckle you might encounter on a laserdisc that suffers from laser rot.


The rest of the movie seems pretty clean. I think it's the film print since the rest doesn't suffer from these issues or at least I didn't notice it. If it pops up real quick then I don't count it. If this laserdisc does have rot it's very mild. I guess most laserdisc do have some very light rot but it's so mild that most people won't be able to notice unless they are really looking for it.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2023, 18:33 
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Sometimes with titles that had rot, the start or end of a given side might be most affected with the middle section fine.

Many early LDs had some speckles. If you freeze a given frame and count the number of speckles per frame and see less than 3-4 I wouldn't worry at all.
Some LD players have an HQ circuit button which you can enable to hide most of the speckles albeit with a slightly less sharp picture displayed.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2023, 14:12 
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I have bought a few factory sealed laserdiscs, the discs are Pioneer made in Japan.
When I played the discs they played perfect without issues, however on my tv screen I could see random tiny white dots from time to time.
The random white dots are much smaller than speccles looking like snow flakes.

There was no distortion on L/R audio channels.

The white dots could they be beginning of rot on brand new discs?
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2023, 15:52 
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noogie-man wrote:
The white dots could they be beginning of rot on brand new discs?

There's no such thing as a "brand new" laserdisc. Disc rot is caused by the adhesive between the physical layers of the disc coming undone over time, not by playing the disc. How they're stored is a factor as I understand it, but ultimately all optical discs have a shelf life, even sealed.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2023, 18:58 
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rcarlson wrote:
noogie-man wrote:
The white dots could they be beginning of rot on brand new discs?

There's no such thing as a "brand new" laserdisc. Disc rot is caused by the adhesive between the physical layers of the disc coming undone over time, not by playing the disc. How they're stored is a factor as I understand it, but ultimately all optical discs have a shelf life, even sealed.


Disc rot is caused by the adhesive between the physical layers of the disc coming undone over time
Meaning the disc will split in half and come off the other side?

What's the best storage factor?
I have my discs standing in a cabinet, no humid or hot air entering.
Is this a good or bad storing them this way


Last edited by noogie-man on 16 Apr 2023, 13:46, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2023, 20:05 
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I've never heard of a disc splitting in half by itself, but it doesn't have to completely fall apart for the disc to become unusable. Anyway, now that I read further, my explanation was incomplete: there are a few other factors that can cause disc rot (the player's laser is not one of them, despite the term "laser rot"). The Wikipedia page is worth reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

The way you're storing them is good: cool, dry, and vertical is the way to go.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2023, 13:45 
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rcarlson wrote:
I've never heard of a disc splitting in half by itself, but it doesn't have to completely fall apart for the disc to become unusable. Anyway, now that I read further, my explanation was incomplete: there are a few other factors that can cause disc rot (the player's laser is not one of them, despite the term "laser rot"). The Wikipedia page is worth reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

The way you're storing them is good: cool, dry, and vertical is the way to go.


I keep my discs in the dark in the cabinet.

I red the link, it was very interesting info, thanks.
So far I haven't exeperianced any rot from my cd-collection, Wiki info claims cd's are more prone to rot than dvd's???
My experiance is the opposite, I had several rotted dvd's but no cd's so far.

I have also several rotted laserdiscs which gone bad over time.
Early Pioneer discs made in USA seem to be of poor quality, my Hellhole disc developed some nasty sh*t on screen and the audio is distorted!
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2023, 22:45 
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I didn't think this was actually proven, but just a theory.

rcarlson wrote:
noogie-man wrote:
The white dots could they be beginning of rot on brand new discs?

There's no such thing as a "brand new" laserdisc. Disc rot is caused by the adhesive between the physical layers of the disc coming undone over time, not by playing the disc. How they're stored is a factor as I understand it, but ultimately all optical discs have a shelf life, even sealed.





Also if this happens in the beginning of the film isn't it from the overlay of the titles, don't know the correct terminology
of this one but I've seen it and after they are over the film is clear etc.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2023, 12:04 
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Does oily grease from finger tips touching disc cause any chemical reaction?
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2023, 21:51 
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noogie-man wrote:
Does oily grease from finger tips touching disc cause any chemical reaction?


I'm sure it does just like when you touch anything with your oily hands, as we all have oily hands.
But what type of reaction are you looking for???? Something bad, no it won't be a problem.
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 Post subject: Re: What are black spots that pop up? Is this just film prin
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2023, 11:49 
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rein-o wrote:
noogie-man wrote:
Does oily grease from finger tips touching disc cause any chemical reaction?


I'm sure it does just like when you touch anything with your oily hands, as we all have oily hands.
But what type of reaction are you looking for???? Something bad, no it won't be a problem.


Removing disc from jacket sometimes I accidentally leave fingerprints on the disc ends, was curious if greasy finger tips would cause any reaction to plastics causing future rot ?
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