It is currently 27 Apr 2024, 23:51




 Page 1 of 1 [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Pay per View (PPV) LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2024, 07:37 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 4551
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 1147 times
And I do not mean RENTAL but actually PPV as described:

blam1 wrote:
Pay-Per-View edition. Packaged in a generic white "Pioneer" jacket, the film is spread across 3 discs. Each disc has the same program on both sides so the operator wasn't required to know which side was up. Disc 1 in player 1, Disc 2 in player 2 and so on, and the players would "switch" at the disc breaks for a seamless transition.



Pan&scan / Dolby Surround. 2-discs set for a normal 2-side release, playing gapless on .... 2 players or maybe on a Pioneer LD-W1?

Who has seen/touched/played such exotic releases before?
Was it intended for hotels, or for public projections?

Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2024, 13:50 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 5992
Location: Ann Arbor
Has thanked: 1295 times
Been thanked: 1107 times
I think I’ve seen a dual disc industrial system at some point that would explain this, of course I don’t remember its name. The LD-W1 was out of production by the time most of these were made. Also the LD-W1 is far from “seamless” in its side changing being by far the slowest player when it comes to changing sides.
_________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2024, 14:58 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 4551
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 1147 times
signofzeta wrote:
I think I’ve seen a dual disc industrial system at some point that would explain this, of course I don’t remember its name


Good point.

For the US market, there's only one model in the database that fits the requirements: Pioneer CLD-V303T

Image


Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2024, 19:12 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 5992
Location: Ann Arbor
Has thanked: 1295 times
Been thanked: 1107 times
I want that thing so bad. A working one, I mean.

It could have just been done with two decks and a mixer, as was normal in TV back in the day. It would be easy to program them via RS232 or just have a technician do it live.

Of course if Pioneer was involved in any way then you’d expect hardware just for this purpose…
_________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 01:04 
Confirmed Padawan
Confirmed Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3588
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 323 times
Do you guys remember DIVX? Not the DivX codec but the DIVX DVD rental service owned by now defunct Circuit City. They had some special DVD players with a 56k modem for a phone line. After inserting the disc into the player, it would call in to activate the rental period. Once activated, you could play that disc for a 48 hour then the disc would become unplayable. You didn’t have to return the disc. Imagine they did this to Laserdiscs :)
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 01:28 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 5992
Location: Ann Arbor
Has thanked: 1295 times
Been thanked: 1107 times
Divx was an idea so bad it’s amazing nobody killed it before it rolled out. Even in 1998 or whatever deliberately making excess landfill was pretty out of style.
_________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 04:39 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 4551
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 1147 times
substance wrote:
Do you guys remember DIVX?


Yes, we're old... sorry, vintage!

DIVX lasted barely a year ... and made a $114 million hole in Circuit City's bank account.

For our younger audience... here is a good catch up:

https://allisonveneziowrites.com/2020/09/16/retro-tech-divx/

Image


Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 06:18 
Confirmed Padawan
Confirmed Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3588
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 323 times
admin wrote:
substance wrote:
Do you guys remember DIVX?


Yes, we're old... sorry, vintage!

DIVX lasted barely a year ... and made a $114 million hole in Circuit City's bank account.

For our younger audience... here is a good catch up:

https://allisonveneziowrites.com/2020/09/16/retro-tech-divx/

Julien


Ironically, Best buy was one of the initial investors of Netflix and Vudu but sold off their shares after a short while, not believing in neither of the companies. I believe CinemaNow was another one, they gave up on.
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 17:20 
Absolute fan
Absolute fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41
Posts: 1996
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 387 times
admin wrote:
Image

That seems like it'd be pretty easy to bypass on a PC where you can eliminate UOPs entirely.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 18:33 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 4551
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 1147 times
takeshi666 wrote:
That seems like it'd be pretty easy to bypass on a PC where you can eliminate UOPs entirely.


I can't verify this but the Blog quoted that nobody has been able to play a DIVX disc in 20 years after the dial-up system went cold.

Quote:
In addition to the normal Content Scramble System (CSS) encryption, DIVX discs used Triple DES encryption and an alternative channel modulation coding scheme, which prevented them from being read in standard DVD players.


It is likely what the decryption key was a mix of your player ID and disc ID or something similar so that each combinaison inside the decoding chip would get the right key but each dial-up data would be different and couldn't be replayed on another player.

Can't find a Service Manual for the few players released commercially.

Attachment:
Panasonic.jpg
Panasonic.jpg [ 65.37 KiB | Viewed 387 times ]
Attachment:
proscan.jpg
proscan.jpg [ 47.67 KiB | Viewed 387 times ]
Attachment:
RCA.jpg
RCA.jpg [ 62.03 KiB | Viewed 387 times ]


I don't think anyone ever bothered to reverse-engineer and crack their encryption, it's just easier to buy the regular DVD version of the 140+ titles released :-)

Even Doom9.org didn't bother!

Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 19:05 
Absolute fan
Absolute fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41
Posts: 1996
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 387 times
I suppose if the warning screen is something that's the only part of the disc recognized by a standard DVD player and the rest of it doesn't conform to a DVD video standard then I could definitely see it not being that easy.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 21:39 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 5992
Location: Ann Arbor
Has thanked: 1295 times
Been thanked: 1107 times
admin wrote:
takeshi666 wrote:
That seems like it'd be pretty easy to bypass on a PC where you can eliminate UOPs entirely.


I can't verify this but the Blog quoted that nobody has been able to play a DIVX disc in 20 years after the dial-up system went cold.

Quote:
In addition to the normal Content Scramble System (CSS) encryption, DIVX discs used Triple DES encryption and an alternative channel modulation coding scheme, which prevented them from being read in standard DVD players.


It is likely what the decryption key was a mix of your player ID and disc ID or something similar so that each combinaison inside the decoding chip would get the right key but each dial-up data would be different and couldn't be replayed on another player.

Can't find a Service Manual for the few players released commercially.

I don't think anyone ever bothered to reverse-engineer and crack their encryption, it's just easier to buy the regular DVD version of the 140+ titles released :-)

Even Doom9.org didn't bother!

Julien



I could be wrong but I think Divx versions are worse…maybe all 4:3 perhaps? There can’t be too many exclusives, if any.
_________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 22:53 
Confirmed Padawan
Confirmed Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3588
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 323 times
signofzeta wrote:
I could be wrong but I think Divx versions are worse…maybe all 4:3 perhaps? There can’t be too many exclusives, if any.


Yes, they were mostly in pan&scan full screen with no extras on a single layer disc which meant high compression.

I doubt they made much profit on these discs back in the day. I bought my first ever DVD burner in 2003. Blank DVDs were still very expensive.
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2024, 02:45 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 4551
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 1147 times
takeshi666 wrote:
I suppose if the warning screen is something that's the only part of the disc recognized by a standard DVD player and the rest of it doesn't conform to a DVD video standard then I could definitely see it not being that easy.


Yes, the Doom9.org lists the filesystem and specifics:

Quote:
Title: Slums of Beverly Hills
Disc Label: DIVX148635663_1_1
Disc Capacity: 3.92 GB
Disc Format: Universal Disc Format
Root Folders: ECCTRANA, ECCTRANB, VIDEO_TS, ZOOM

The disc WILL play an error / tech screen if played in a regular DVD player, which only tells the user to call 1-800-456-DIVX (out of service). There is nothing more in the VIDEO_TS folder other than this warning.

The ECCTRANA and ECCTRANB folders have a few 360kb files that all but one or two are corrupt (presumed to be encrypted). A HEX Editor didn't tell me anything obvious, but I'm not a programmer.

The ZOOM folder contains the bulk of the data.

It contains a ton of JAR files, which are corrupt or otherwise encrypted as well as some BUP, IFO, and VOB files. Examples of these IFO/VOB:

BC_VMG00.IFO (with matching BUP)
BVTS00_0.IFO (with matching BUP)
BVTS00_1.VOB (through BVTS00_4)


Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2024, 17:06 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 5992
Location: Ann Arbor
Has thanked: 1295 times
Been thanked: 1107 times
substance wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
I could be wrong but I think Divx versions are worse…maybe all 4:3 perhaps? There can’t be too many exclusives, if any.


Yes, they were mostly in pan&scan full screen with no extras on a single layer disc which meant high compression.

I doubt they made much profit on these discs back in the day. I bought my first ever DVD burner in 2003. Blank DVDs were still very expensive.


They didn’t make a single dime on any of it. Read above.

It never occurred to me to think they used recordables since they were like $20 each probably at that time. I assumed they were stamped.
_________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay-per-View LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2024, 17:49 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 4551
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 1147 times
signofzeta wrote:
It never occurred to me to think they used recordables since they were like $20 each probably at that time. I assumed they were stamped.


Very much pressed and stamped.

I don't think the DVD-R/DVD+R/DVD-RW/DVD+RW/DVD-RAM war was over by then and most DVD players would probably NOT read recordable discs.

The DIVX players could really read the bare minimum.

From the Panasonic DVD-X410 User Manual:

Attachment:
DIVX.jpg
DIVX.jpg [ 36.35 KiB | Viewed 350 times ]


Is CVD a typo for VCD? But it in a way it was a good foreshadowing of things to come for DIVX since it stands for CardioVascular Disease!

Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pay per View (PPV) LaserDiscs
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2024, 03:56 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 4551
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 1147 times
Up to 11 titles now:

https://www.lddb.com/search.php?adv_search=*&adv_reference=19-%2A%7E%2A&country=6


Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 17 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 64 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: