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The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2327		 Page 9 of 25
Author:  laserbite34 [ 16 Feb 2014, 19:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
laserbite34 wrote:
nissling wrote:
laserbite34 wrote:
nissling, which pressing of Casino is that USA NTSC first edition or dts or is the PAL pressing?

It's the first US-edition. Although I did get better results with S-video than composite (which was used in my captures) actually. Sharpness was almost the same but colors got more dynamic (Independence Day looks even closer to the Blu-Ray now) and the amount of smear went from being very low to completely gone. Seems like the comb filter in my CLD-R7G does a better job than the one in my DVR-LX70D.

That's great I wonder if the dts pressing is equal as good?

I was thinking thou it might not work, if I was to send the video output from the Onkyo TH SR-875 after its gone though the up scale and other processing I'm wondering if it would work or not as it looks fine on the projector with the up scale and other fancy-do processing. I might do another Laserdisc to DVD-RW (for my personal self) sometime soon?

The Pioneer CLD-1750 that I used at the time 7 so years ago doesn't have a cinema mode like my current DVL-909 or at the time CLD-2950 but that had some snags starting up. So I had to go with 1750. That is why it looks washed out other here's a free trick? Turn down the brightness on your pc.
Author:  bguzman [ 22 Feb 2014, 21:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
Hello,

Some screen shots of Star Wars ESB showing the different color and cropping of just a few versions that I own. Please forgive my crappy camera skills. :oops:

LD-JSC
Image

DVD-2006 Limited with theatrical release as an extra
Image

BD
Image
Author:  Guest [ 04 Mar 2014, 03:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
Evil Dead 2:

Uncut German Bluray/DVD (DVD) 2048x1152 2x scaled
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Never seen colors look that good on DVD!

Vestron Laserdisc from ld-v4200 1440x960 2x scaled
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Vestron Laserdisc from ld-v4200 with cheating (MergeChroma(McTemporalDenoise(settings="very low",interlaced=true,radius=1,sigma=2,chroma=true,adapt=false,deblock=false,enhance=false,GFthr=1.0,AGstr=0),McTemporalDenoise(settings="very high",radius=3,sigma=0,interlaced=true,chroma=true,twopass=true,adapt=false,deblock=false,enhance=false,GFthr=1.0,AGstr=0))
) 1440x960 2x scaled
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Next two are same as last one (Vestron LD with cheating and stronger radius), but color adjustment and lowered gamma (creates some black crush like the DVD/bluray but still probly has less). 1440x960 2x scaled.
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Author:  nissling [ 04 Mar 2014, 19:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
Wow, there's so much crosstalk and chroma noise that I can't imagine it being a Laserdisc.
Author:  laserbite34 [ 05 Mar 2014, 09:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
Blimey the ED II has better looking image on the DVD pressing.

Open matte I can see the image has more top headroom on the LD pressings.
Author:  Guest [ 05 Mar 2014, 11:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
DVD is definitely higher resolution (unless you consider it's zoomed in but still hehe) and has way better colors.

The same LD looks better on the LD-717 however, IMO:

LD-717 4:2:0 capture (agc, low-pass, luma peaking and all gains forced off; 5-line comb filtering) 1440x1080 2x scaled:
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1987 Japanese Renaissance Evil Dead 2 (LD-717 as previous) 1440x1080 2x scaled
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Some reading suggests CCD TBC's are more analog in nature (LD-717 has older TBC), hence they leave the composite signal less mangled I think. http://books.google.com/books?id=fVJ5txTE0mIC&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=ccd+tbc&source=bl&ots=r4PGHs7vPP&sig=2qg99LTPzTZyMnT024W3ggV5sZg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MPsWU-HUNc_goATz04CACQ&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA. Do all laserdisc players have CCD TBC's? Still want to try without TBC...

@ Nissling:
Your captures don't ceaze to amaze me!
Author:  happycube [ 05 Mar 2014, 19:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
The V4200 is probably in desperate need of adjustments etc. I don't have a service manual, though - otherwise I could tell you what kind of TBC it has ;) I wouldn't be surprised if it has a CCD as well.

All LD players have some sort of TBC, otherwise most TV's wouldn't be able to handle the signal.
Author:  Guest [ 06 Mar 2014, 05:52 ]
Post subject:  to hauntmedoitagain
hauntmedoitagain wrote:
Thought I'd contribute with these screencaps I made tonight. There's fifty of them from several movies so I won't post them here, but here's a direct link to their Imgur album.

I used a CLD-3070 connected via composite to a Panasonic DMR-ES10 recording in XP mode with line-in NR on. The screens were captured and de-interlaced through VLC.


Those are the best captures I've ever seen :o I like how there's no black crush.

Does motion get blurred with NR on?
If not then that's like scary good... CLD-3070 has an older type (more analog) TBC I think too. Who would want an X0 with results like that? That's just weird. I wouldn't have DVD's if my LD's looked like that (without blurred motion of course).

hauntmedoitagain wrote:
Not exactly what they look like in person on a nice CRT, but still a good indication of LD's potential. :)

Really?...
Author:  happycube [ 06 Mar 2014, 06:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
The 3070 actually has a lower-resolution 9.something mhz/8-bit digital TBC.
Author:  Guest [ 08 Mar 2014, 04:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
The least Pioneer could've done (including all other manufacturers) was allow a non-TBC output (at least on industrial models). VHS players never had TBC's unless they were more expensive units (most SVHS players); even then you could disable TBC most of the time. It also doesn't help that all the expensive LD players had no TBC with native RGB out (high end TBC's make rgb output from low quality signals, including composite; line-doublers can sometimes be a TBC while doing the same I think); instead it's always: composite<TBC<composite<internal-comb_filter<svideo (sometimes back to composite here)or rgb.

TV's synced fine with VHS during fast-forward and rewind, so unless laserdisc has a really distorted-wacky sync, I don't see the need for TBC.

Something interesting I found BTW. My capture card (pvr-150) has trouble syncing with a Sega Genesis console (even tried with special play mode and other stuff enabled for security camera's and unstable signals) and looks a lot like your pre-TBC color-bar captures in another thread (two mirrored splits overlaying each-other). Tried filtering the composite and RF out from Genesis with a JVC SVHS but problem persisted. Line-doubler however, syncs just fine with Genesis and outputs a very nice 31khz rock solid rgb-VGA out (from the same Genesis composite out). Funny thing because line-doubler loses sync when fast forwarding laserdisc and can't sync properly with VHS (lots of tapes exhibit top of screen squashed into stripe during normal playback); PVR-150 stays synced however and looks great in this case. Maybe I can try pre-TBC from LD-V4200 with line-doubler (and capture card) when I get a chance. Too bad I returned my startech HD VGA capture card; it even did 15KHZ RGB capture :(.
Author:  happycube [ 08 Mar 2014, 07:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
The non-TBC output of a Laserdisc player is rather different from the way tapes are irregular, it was wildly out of NTSC spec. If it wasn't, do you think Phillips would have bothered to put one in the 8000? ;)

That and a Laserdisc player's TBC output is straight (albeit digitized) composite video, no RGB-ification.

(Dang, if that Startech HD VGA capture had Linux drivers - and presumably raw ADC capability - that could potentially be very useful for my stuff. Sigh.)

EDIT: To make this post on-topic, here's a screenshot from frame 2240 of "The Image Disk" by Image Premastering Services, back in 1985, decoded using the latest version of my software.

Image
Author:  tpgb12 [ 08 Mar 2014, 08:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
Here's lots of screenshots of Sides 1 and 2 of Rain Man: Special Edition (1988) [ML104742]

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

See the rest of them here (I can't be bothered to paste all 47 pics in here):
http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/thepi ... t=3&page=1
Author:  Guest [ 08 Mar 2014, 13:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
happycube wrote:
The non-TBC output of a Laserdisc player is rather different from the way tapes are irregular, it was wildly out of NTSC spec. If it wasn't, do you think Phillips would have bothered to put one in the 8000? ;)

here's a screenshot from frame 2240 of "The Image Disk" by Image Premastering Services, back in 1985, decoded using the latest version of my software.


That's a very impressive capture (or output perhaps); especially for an output. Notice a similarity to my avisynth Commando captures; there's faint lines between the doorway and statues. If I scale the pic they get blurred out. I'm thinking ld from 80's had some line artifacts when filling up NTSC space, but only show up on your software decoder or avisynth enhancement. They literally crawl over the screen while Commando is played via ld-v4200 (despite low SNR, I feel the LD-V4200 is very good at giving full luminance and gives a very strong signal, albeit with noise; IMO if you can clean out the color blotching and noise with avisynth (and maybe use a temporal filter), it's a good alternative to something like the X0).

No offense but that picture looks kind of disturbing and you talk like you live somewhere that's not normal...

"Man's Best Friend Widescreen Edition" LD:
Top is LD-V4200 YV12 from PVR-150 (filters, gains, luma peak, and low-passes off; 5-line combing). Bottom is after avisynth
Code: Select all
`MergeChroma(McTemporalDenoise(settings="low",interlaced=true,radius=1,sigma=0,chroma=true,twopass=true,adapt=false,deblock=false,enhance=false,GFthr=1.0,AGstr=0),McTemporalDenoise(settings="very high",radius=3,sigma=0,interlaced=true,chroma=true,limit=-1,twopass=true,adapt=false,deblock=false,enhance=false,GFthr=1.0,AGstr=0))`
, temporal filter, saturation, and yadif deinterlacing.
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Author:  happycube [ 08 Mar 2014, 18:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
Thanks! And that's a good filter chain you've got there.

I was pretty much picking things out at random, and I didn't want to use a shot with actual non-actor people in it - it looked like a good shot of a cathedral, so I went with it.

(And I'm a coder, I guess I think and 'talk' a bit funny for it... but I've lived in California my whole life...)

What i noticed more in the shot was the odd coloration of the arches... my 2D comb filter can't deal with vertical lines very well yet. The artifacts around the status are part color processing, and part not getting the de-emphasis quite right yet. Only really fancy players like the X0 and Runco's tweaked Panasonics nail it, as far as I know. My guess is that they under-speced the component tolerances in that area.

Here's an overly dark duck: http://i.imgur.com/hKQ7xKU.png
Author:  nissling [ 15 Mar 2014, 00:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
I've taken some new screenshots and Independence Day is back again! This time with S-video and de-interlaced, but the MPEG-2 encoding drives me crazy...

Laserdisc (Composite)
Image

Laserdisc (S-Video)
Image

DVD (PAL)
Image

Blu-Ray
Image

It should be noticed that the composite screenshot was over-sharpened with settings on the player and the digital compression does make artifacts in these comparisons. When watching the Laserdisc on my setup, with S-Video, the forehead has more textures than composite but it looks like it's the other way around here. S-video moves better too. I should get a capture card. :problem:
Author:  nissling [ 15 Mar 2014, 09:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
More captures, this time trying out the comb filter.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Author:  happycube [ 15 Mar 2014, 18:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
Looks good :) The captures definitely have some 'PEG artifacting, though.

(edit: oops, didn't catch your comment!)
Author:  nissling [ 15 Mar 2014, 20:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
Yes, like I said I should get myself a decent capture card but you can still see that the comb filter does a good job reducing rainbowing.
Author:  Guest [ 20 Mar 2014, 00:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
@nissling
I think the colors are better on the LD svideo and it looks very similar to the bluray (and I can see what you mean by it having less detail; the forehead has less visible wrinkles). Bluray looks great of course. DVD is well saturated (think the LD could use slight saturation) and has black crush on the bench seat in back. Why do I keep seeing black crush on digital prints...? You ever see the recent Lincoln movie on DVD? That has tons of black crush and it's really hard to see anything during the whole movie.

The 3D comb filter on X0 is really nice which is obvious on your captures. Really wish I had something like that since my 480i 27" CRT only has one svideo and cvbs input (it was the cheapest CRT TV in 2000 with svideo and composite quality is less than impressive). And yes I'd avoid mpeg2 if I were you (especially for archiving), unless you're just trying to watch the freakin' movie.

Some shots of Godfather 1981 Paramount LD testing dotcrawl comb filter http://home.earthlink.net/~tacosalad/video/dotcrawl.html, and a gauss blur filter via virtualdub:
LD-V4200, PVR-150 yv12, 5 line combing; other filters, crushes and gains off as usual; 1440X1080 scaled (I guess 4:3 1080P really does exist! :0 ) :taken down
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Noticed the gauss blur helps remove noise from the LD-V4200 while preserving natural film grain and details; makes it look similar to the LD-717.

Didn't see any disc rot or any artifacts whatsoever through entire film (no disc warpage either). Not bad for two 33 year old LD's :) . A 1983 Richard Pryer stand-up comedy LD however (Columbia Pictures RCA), does have quite a bit of disc rot...
Author:  ae.tc [ 20 Mar 2014, 17:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread
on ViewSonic monitor (s-vid)

Image
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