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 Post subject: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 16:31 
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I got a bunch of LD's today and they are all great. Some a bit rougher than others condition wise. One disc I was looking forward to was this, The First National Kidisc. The case and disc sleeve are in good condition, it even comes with the How To Play instructions sheet.

The disc though is in bits. Completely clouded over. I was pretty upset about it. I didn't pay much for it at all, only 99p, but it's not the point, I was just gutted about the disc condition and thought it would never be readable.

I decided to try it out and sure enough it plays just fine. I have no idea how my LD player is doing this. Audio and Video are both pretty much perfect too!

Any ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 16:35 
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I only see a clouded Side 2. Is there anything on Side 2?

EDIT: LDDB says it’s one side 25 minutes.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 16:44 
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EDIT: Replied too fast, I hadn't checked the disc so forgot. Side 2 is reasonably clean but has nothing recorded on it. Side 1 is 100% clouded over per the photo. It's worse than the photo seems to show too. A lot darker, speckly and a urine yellow colour almost. You can make absolutely nothing out of the original surface of the disc.

Genuinely amazed it plays pretty much perfectly from what I've seen so far.

I'd love to hand this one over to Simon and Chad to test out their DDD device!

Can't believe it plays at all. My CLD-D925 is a champ! :)
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 17:20 
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You know, the side that says "side 1" isn't actually the side 1? The laser is under the disc inside the player, so side 1 is actually the one on the opposite side to the label, like a compact disc.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 17:50 
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Early Darwin award winner is me? :) I think what threw me was the laser being able to switch sides and so would read like a record rather than a CD, CDV, DVD etc.

That's a stroke of good karma then because I really wanted this disc to work!

It's odd though, another disc I got today is crystal clear both sides yet playback is horrendous. Picture is near non-existent but the audio is okay.

Laserdiscs melt my brain sometimes!
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 20:37 
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This "glue spray" dead side was typical of DiscoVision associates when producing discs with an odd number of sides (1, 3, 5). Very common to see these on titles pressed in the US during 1981.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 21:02 
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Thanks for the info. I wonder why only one side is totally destroyed? I'm going to capture it asap in case the other side degrades quickly.

It's actually a really cool disc. The inlay explains how to play the games. There's a lot of different games that use freeze frame, the jog wheel etc. However a couple of games require you to swap audio channels for different things. Then there is some sort of flight simulator game, a demo how to tie different knots and 11 ways to make paper aeroplanes plus some other stuff.

I think it's a cool oddity. Going by the pamphlet inside, I think there were plans to make more titles in this series. Does anyone know if any were made?
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 22:03 
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teddanson wrote:
Early Darwin award winner is me? :) I think what threw me was the laser being able to switch sides and so would read like a record rather than a CD, CDV, DVD etc.

That's a stroke of good karma then because I really wanted this disc to work!

It's odd though, another disc I got today is crystal clear both sides yet playback is horrendous. Picture is near non-existent but the audio is okay.

Laserdiscs melt my brain sometimes!


When LD was first introduced there were no flipping players. Knowing this having the sticker on the opposite side of the data made perfect sense.

By 1990 flipping was standard on everything but the highest and lowest players and it stayed that way through the DVL line and the end of the format.

In a way it kinda sucks that it turned out this way...

A player with Both Side play starts with the laser in the center on the bottom. It plays towards the end (with the disc slowing down the entire time if its a CLV movie). Then when it gets to the end of the side the disc has to come to a complete stop and start spinning the other way (because discs are normally flipped in a single side player) while the laser moves to the center of the other side (top).

If LD has been designed to be Both Side from the start it would have benefited the format quite a bit. You could have reversed the spiral so that the motor could be unidirectional which would save quite a bit of time switching sides. Also the spiral could start in the center on one side and on the edge for side 2 so the laser would travel not even half as far for side flips and the motor would be able to stay at almost the same speed for the side change. It would be faster, quieter, and cause less wear.

As it is we ended up with a format where, in the end, most people never even used a single sided player.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 00:12 
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signofzeta wrote:
When LD was first introduced there were no flipping players. Knowing this having the sticker on the opposite side of the data made perfect sense.

And while they could've designed the players with the laser assembly on top of the disc and labelled the discs accordingly, so they'd been laid out like vinyl records, presumably due to tolerance concerns that wasn't really an option with the early top loaders, and it made no sense to suddenly change the layout when they finally started making front loaders.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 00:52 
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Did you try cleaning it off and seeing if its something interesting on the dead side??
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 03:04 
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rein-o wrote:
Did you try cleaning it off and seeing if its something interesting on the dead side??


This is how Evil Dead would have happened if it was filmed in '94.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 11:52 
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rein-o wrote:
Did you try cleaning it off and seeing if its something interesting on the dead side??


What's the best way to do that? I could give it a try, though I want to capture the video from the proper side first before it's too late so I'll get that sorted beforehand.

Also to signofzeta, thanks for the very interesting information, it makes things a lot clearer. I think I may have also been getting mixed up with CED playback too and then the whole LD A <> B playback thing just fried my brain I guess! :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 14:08 
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takeshi666 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
When LD was first introduced there were no flipping players. Knowing this having the sticker on the opposite side of the data made perfect sense.

And while they could've designed the players with the laser assembly on top of the disc and labelled the discs accordingly, so they'd been laid out like vinyl records, presumably due to tolerance concerns that wasn't really an option with the early top loaders, and it made no sense to suddenly change the layout when they finally started making front loaders.


If you’re making a single sided player I think it was probably a lot easier to put the laser on the bottom and in that situation you want to be able to see the label so they’d flipped it. CD, DVD, and BR are all this way.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 15:06 
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signofzeta wrote:
takeshi666 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
When LD was first introduced there were no flipping players. Knowing this having the sticker on the opposite side of the data made perfect sense.

And while they could've designed the players with the laser assembly on top of the disc and labelled the discs accordingly, so they'd been laid out like vinyl records, presumably due to tolerance concerns that wasn't really an option with the early top loaders, and it made no sense to suddenly change the layout when they finally started making front loaders.


If you’re making a single sided player I think it was probably a lot easier to put the laser on the bottom and in that situation you want to be able to see the label so they’d flipped it. CD, DVD, and BR are all this way.

If they had put the laser on top, I imagined the assembly would be part of the lid, thus leaving nothing to block the label once opened, that's why I mentioned the whole issue with tolerances.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 16:14 
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Google “inverted platter” or something like that. It was done in CD players by Pioneer, Forsell, and perhaps Sony. The motor is on the bottom but the rest of the mechanicals are in the upper section.

With an LD player it would required that a great deal of stuff would have to be in the lid. I think they wanted a thinner player and a more cheap and reliable one than that design would provide. There’s a reason they were all top loading back then and still they were huuuuge.

The LD-W1 has a flip mech totally different from any other. Basically the entire transport flips inside of the player. It takes a long time to switch sides, even longer than later designs, also made worse by the origins of the format.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 17:38 
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Alcohol on a small spot on a rag and clean it, and keep cleaning it.
Don't hit the label and don't get it in-between the sides of the discs or it may come apart.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 18:39 
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Folks, these types of discs do NOT have a deadside. This is literally a blank disc and the pattern you see under the plastic is the glue holding the two sides together. Do not spend any time trying to uncover something that isn't there.
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 18:53 
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https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/36716/OP ... amp;-Games is a sequel to this.

Barring poor storage conditions, the disk should have some time on it yet, it's 39-40 years old and still playable now, after all. ;) In general, many/most Discovision disks that rot do so early on.

@teddanson - Look up the Discovision/Pioneer PR7820, which *did* play from the top side of the disk and moved the disk instead of the optics.

CED also played from the outside in, which wouldn't have worked very well for the early days of LD where Discovision (especially combined with the Magnavision 'players') had severe tracking issues on the outer bits of the disk.

(I've already got some glue spray disks, BTW.)
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 19:22 
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blam1 wrote:
Folks, these types of discs do NOT have a deadside. This is literally a blank disc and the pattern you see under the plastic is the glue holding the two sides together. Do not spend any time trying to uncover something that isn't there.

Thank you, from the pics it looked like the discovisions with dead sides, I've never owned this disc.

Glad you are still around Blam :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: How the heck is my CLD-D925 playing this disc?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 19:36 
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happycube wrote:
https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/36716/OPA-37-601/Fun-amp;-Games is a sequel to this.

Barring poor storage conditions, the disk should have some time on it yet, it's 39-40 years old and still playable now, after all. ;) In general, many/most Discovision disks that rot do so early on.

Have this title, can confirm. Mine has some minor rot, particularly at the end of side 2, but is otherwise watchable.
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