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 Post subject: Why did some of the last Japanese LDs come in flimsy sleeves
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2016, 00:32 
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When I started collecting some of the late releases available on laserdisc I was surprised to find that quite a few of the final 2LD Japanese releases which are usually renowned for having really beautiful strong gatefold jackets instead came in very flimsy, easily damaged lightweight single jackets.

Examples from the PILF-28xx series include:
Mummy, The (1999) [PILF-2800]
Psycho: Deluxe Edition (1998) [PILF-2821]
General's Daughter, The (1999) [PILF-2839]
For Love of the Game (1999) [PILF-2845]
Snow Falling on Cedars (1999) [PILF-2852]
American Beauty (1999) [PILF-2856]
Mission: Impossible 2 (2000) [PILF-2865]
Sixth Day, The (2000) [PILF-2867]

I can think of a handful of Japanese music LDs which came in lighter than normal style jackets like Level 42: Guaranteed Live [JILR-79001] however even that is super strong compared to the above examples.

Are there any earlier examples of lightweight jackets (almost USA thickness) being used for Japanese releases?

Does anyone know why some of the 2LD PILF-28 series came in strong gatefolds and others like those above didn't?

Was Pioneer experimenting with modernising the jacket or simply cutting corners given the end was imminent for the format?

When were these new style 2LD flimsy jackets first introduced?
I don't recall seeing them used before I started collecting PILF-28 titles.

It's something that always puzzled me given some of the final few releases are now quite valuable but very easily damaged due to the lightweight construction of the jackets. I guess it just makes owning a complete mint set even more of a challenge today. Even some of the final UK releases were better packaged than this coming in traditional Japanese grade jackets.
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 Post subject: Re: Why did some of the last Japanese LDs come in flimsy sle
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2016, 00:49 
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My guess is cutting corners. Not only on material but in mastering as well. Ac-3 audio was also neglected on some of the late US and JPN releases. I believe sub $100 DVD players became available in 2001 and discs were around $20 for new DVD releases.

From what I have heard, Pioneer was hoping (and planning) to continue LD production for another 10 years. They perhaps tried cost reductions and modernize the look of the jackets. I think it's not the sales success of DVD but how quickly players and media got cheaper is what made Pioneer pull the plug earlier. It was impossible to print LDs and sell under $20 after 23 years of advancement. DVD player got to sub $100 mark and DVD media $20 mark in only 5 years.

Great to have you back ld fan, its a nice fun thread!
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 Post subject: Re: Why did some of the last Japanese LDs come in flimsy sle
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2016, 01:32 
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I've never seen any of those discs but I do have one JP release with a crappy "US style" jacket to hold two LDs. The release in question is the otherwise stunning Ghibli Ga Ippai Collection (1996) [TKLO-50180].

Out of the eleven movies only one needs two LDs, 1986's Laputa. Instead of normal JP gatefold you just get one thin sleeve, thinner than the other jackets in the set despite it having twice as much disc to fit. Now, it's true that it hardly needs more protection since everything fits inside a giant outer box wrapped in white satin and stamped with blue metallic ink, but all my other big LD boxes have the normal (very thick) gatefold sleeves, even series where the box sets are themselves inside other boxes.

The justification for the 1999 titles being cheap may be a cost thing, but in general it seems like Japanese publishers rarely do this even as a format is dying. US publishers almost always do this, even when the format isn't dying at all (see: Sega Genesis, VHS, LPs) but it's rare in Japan.

My assumption is that it's more ecological. They knew most of these late titles would be cutout, returned, and recycled. Why waste more paper?
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 Post subject: Re: Why did some of the last Japanese LDs come in flimsy sle
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2016, 02:09 
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While i don't have any of these titles either one comes to mind that is the total opposite.
Incident at Blood Pass (1970) [AD098-039]This title came out at the tail end in the USA but had the Japanese thicker sleeve which was really strange.
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 Post subject: Re: Why did some of the last Japanese LDs come in flimsy sle
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2016, 07:12 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
Are there any earlier examples of lightweight jackets (almost USA thickness) being used for Japanese releases?

These are 3 discs sets, but standard covers
Fanny Och Alexander (Fanny & Alexander) (1982) [SF138-1412]
Jean de Florette/Manon des Sources [SF128-1552]
Star Wars: A New Hope (1977) [SF148-1196]
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (1983) [SF148-1343]
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980) [SF148-1242]
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 Post subject: Re: Why did some of the last Japanese LDs come in flimsy sle
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2016, 09:41 
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I was looking through my collection for earlier examples of these flimsy jackets and I found this one:
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) [PILF-2555]

It's was released 1998-03-27 which is quite interesting so a good deal earlier than some of the other titles.

So I thought I'd check the prices on some of these titles to see if ones in flimsy jackets were priced cheaper.

Japanese flimsy jacket prices:

Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) 6700 yen

Mummy, The (1999) 6700 yen
Psycho: Deluxe Edition (1998) 5700 yen
General's Daughter, The (1999) 5700 yen
For Love of the Game (1999) 5700 yen
Snow Falling on Cedars (1999) 5700 yen
American Beauty (1999) 5700 yen
Mission: Impossible 2 (2000) 5700 yen
Sixth Day, The (2000) 5700 yen

Japanese thick jacket prices:

Independence Day: ID4 (1996) 6800 yen
Die Hard (1988) 6800 yen
Die Hard 2: Die Harder (1990) 6800 yen
Die Hard 3: With A Vengeance (1995) 6800 yen
Kundun (1997) 5700 yen
Parent Trap (1998) 5700 yen
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace (1999) 7800 yen
Blair Witch Project, The (1999) 4700 yen
Fight Club (1999) [PILF-2835] 5700 yen
Other Sister, The (1999) 5700 yen
World is not Enough, The (1999) 5700 yen
Anna and the King (1999) 5700 yen
Bringing Out the Dead (1999) 5700 yen
Beach, The (2000) 5700 yen
X-Files: 7th Season vol.4 (2000) 6700 yen

It seems pricing for a flimsy jacket was dropped from 6700 to 5700 yen over time.
Thick jacket prices also dropped from a typical price of 6800 to 5700 yen in general so both were eventually priced the same.

It looks like Pioneer originally did charge a little more for thick 2LD sleeves but later reduced the price to mostly 5700 yen across the board no matter what style of jacket was used. So they were probably considering introducing the new style flimsy jacket to reduce overall costs as substance has suggested.

There appear to be a few sneaky exceptions where they decided to bump the price back up for say Star Wars: The Phantom Menace to 7800 yen when all other 2LD titles before and after were 5700 yen or cheaper! They obviously knew that Star Wars: The Phantom Menace was going to sell a lot so they milked it! The funny part is that because it sold in such high quantities it is the least valuable one in that series today even though it was originally the most expensive.

Another odd one is X-Files: 7th Season vol.4. Unlike vol. 1, 2 and 3 which came in expensive boxes vol 4 was just a standard thick grade 2LD sleeve with 2 discs same as the others I've listed yet it was 1000 yen more expensive being priced at 6700 and not 5700 yen. I'm guessing they also thought that more people might buy that one to complete the set so they bumped up the price again as there appears to be no other justification given the standard packaging.

Interesting also that Blair Witch Project was the only PILF-28 2LD title that was priced at the much lower cost of 4700 yen even with the thick style jacket being used. This was almost certainly because the budget for this movie was significantly less than every other movie in tha series and it also featured new actors who were completely unknown at that point so likely very cheap to hire!


Last edited by laserdisc_fan on 08 Oct 2016, 13:53, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Why did some of the last Japanese LDs come in flimsy sle
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2016, 09:47 
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rein-o wrote:
While i don't have any of these titles either one comes to mind that is the total opposite.
Incident at Blood Pass (1970) [AD098-039]This title came out at the tail end in the USA but had the Japanese thicker sleeve which was really strange.


Yes a few more late USA examples which came in really thick sleeves are these:
TRO-7000 Toxic Avenger, The: Unrated Director's Cut (1985)
TRO-7100 Tromeo & Juliet: Special Edition (1996)
TRO-7110 Chosen One, The: Legend of the Raven (1998)
TRO-7300 Mother's Day (1980)
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 Post subject: Re: Why did some of the last Japanese LDs come in flimsy sle
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2016, 10:09 
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Comparing a typical US 2LD sleeve and one of these Japanese flimsy 2LD sleeves there is really no difference.
The only clue is that the mouth and corners of nearly all US 2LD sleeves are somewhat squashed because they were shipped in tight shrinkwraps which flattened the corners usually on the opening. Their Japanese counterparts were nearly always sold in loose wraps so the mouth tends to have no damage and has perfect square corners all the way round the jacket.

So in the end Japanese sleeves were no better than US sleeves for some of the later releases other than they may have arrived less damaged due to the loose wraps and might have had nicer artwork!

In fact I would almost go as far as to say US sleeves might have been a little better quality at this late stage.
Whilst all the flimsy Japanese 2LD sleeves tend to have a more shiny sleeve surface compared with the traditional matt finish used on other Japanese 2LDs, they still don't seem as resistant to fingerprints as say any USA sleeves from this same period. Most USA sleeves are remarkably resistant to foxing from handling because the sleeves are much more glossy in nature. In fact with care they can be cleaned up like new even when seemingly quite dirty. In the case of Japanese sleeves you shouldn't touch the sleeves with your hands as they tend to develop brown marks (foxing over time). It is also very difficult to clean matt Japanese sleeves without damaging the surface because there is no protective glossy finish to rub.
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