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Post subject: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 16:51 |
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I am roughly familiar with the PAL analogue television color encoding system. Lived in the UK in the mid 1980's and owned a mufti-system TV ... capable of operation in numerous countries. However, I must confess that I know nothing of PAL Laserdisc(s) or the players. I assume that Pioneer (& others) made Laserdisc players for countries that used the PAL broadcast systems. Do these players play PAL discs only Laserdisc was a niche format in the US ... was the format even more niche in contries that used PAL Do PAL LD players require a PAL TV in order to view the discs
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publius
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Post subject: Re: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 16:58 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 18:14 Posts: 1391 Location: United States Has thanked: 39 times Been thanked: 21 times
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Even though one of the original partners in the Philips-MCA optical videodisc format was a European company, PAL LD was a small market, as shown by the much smaller number of releases catalogued on LDDb than for NTSC. There are PAL-only players, mostly earlier models with analog audio only, as well as dual-standard PAL/NTSC players. If you wish to play back a PAL LD, you will need a display device which accepts PAL input, or a standards-conversion kit. You can, of course, play back a NTSC LD on a dual-standard player into any display which accepts NTSC input, unless you have one of a few wretched players which output "NTSC 4.43" when playing back an NTSC disc.
_________________ MUSE decoder information and user guides LD player connexion guide
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elahrairrah
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Post subject: Re: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 15 Dec 2011, 19:41 |
Young Padawan |
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38 Posts: 3422 Location: New Jersey Has thanked: 79 times Been thanked: 150 times
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I am hoping to get a PAL LD player one of these days as there are a number of PAL releases I want to get. I'm hoping a device like this would take care of the incompatibility issue: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Composite-RCA-S ... 5196ea5cb0Hoping that it makes for a decent comb filter as well since it says: Quote: High precision Y/C separation to split composite color information into Y/C for S-Video output.
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Guest
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Post subject: Re: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 30 Dec 2011, 14:20 |
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disclord wrote: (why they didn't use 13/14 pull down I don't understand - it would have kept the speed correct!) "13/14" pulldown (if there were such a thing) would not be correct speed at all, it would be slow motion. (Do the maths, it works out at a framerate of about 3.7fps!) You're probably thinking of a pattern like 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown, which would give you 24fps on a 50Hz display. disclord wrote: Plus, the PAL LD doesn't really have room to hold the PAL signal so you can't have fully saturated chroma without interfering beats in the image, etc... I've never heard this before. Where did you see this?
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publius
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Post subject: Re: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 30 Dec 2011, 19:09 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 18:14 Posts: 1391 Location: United States Has thanked: 39 times Been thanked: 21 times
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miles wrote: disclord wrote: Plus, the PAL LD doesn't really have room to hold the PAL signal so you can't have fully saturated chroma without interfering beats in the image, etc... I've never heard this before. Where did you see this? It comes from the frequency diagrammes in some of the technical papers he & I found years back. Essentially, the carrier frequency for PAL discs is uncomfortably low, so the video sidebands have a tendency to interfere with each other. If Philips had been willing to accept 30 minutes per side CAV play time, they could have moved the inner recorded radius outward, & increased the carrier frequency (since it's the width of the shortest track which determines the highest frequency which can be recorded). See the lower right-hand corner of this figure, which compares the two standards. The PAL carrier frequency is substantially lower than for NTSC discs, whereas the subcarrier frequency is higher, so distortion & interference are much more of a problem.
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_________________ MUSE decoder information and user guides LD player connexion guide
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Guest
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Post subject: Re: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 31 Dec 2011, 20:50 |
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THis is all quite interesting stuff. I always expected the extra resolution made PAL discs superior to NTSC but if they were just butchered rehashes of the NTSC master it seems I was sadly mistaken. Quote: I can tell you that I use a DVDO "HD plus" upscaler to convert the LD signal to HD How do you like this over bog standard composite in? I thought my TV did a great job of scaling it, though I do get some white bleed (could be the laserdisc source but who knows).
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yaffle2345
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Post subject: Re: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 28 Jul 2019, 13:56 |
Honest fan |
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Joined: 03 Mar 2019, 15:15 Posts: 96 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 9 times Been thanked: 19 times
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disclord wrote: The sad thing about PAL discs, besides the 4% audio speed up due to the 2/2 pull down to get to the 25fps rate (why they didn't use 13/14 pull down I don't understand - it would have kept the speed correct!) is the poor quality of so many of the transfers - many, many PAL LD's are simply bad conversions of NTSC masters. Plus, the PAL LD doesn't really have room to hold the PAL signal so you can't have fully saturated chroma without interfering beats in the image, etc... PAL LD's had too many compromises as compared to NTSC LD's. I feel (8 years after the event) I should stick up for PAL a little, after this scurrilous "too many compromises" attack Yes, our system played films a little fast, but at least we had smooth pictures, unlike the terrible juddering that the 3:2 pull down caused on any kind of NTSC pan - NTSC Compromise #1 I'm not sure NTSC (never twice the same colour?) had any colour advantage over PAL. In PAL land, we never needed a 'hue' control as the hue could simply not be wrong - NTSC Compromise #2 And of course the 100-odd fewer lines of NTSC resolution - NTSC Compromise #3 If you want to see the best that LD can offer (barring Hi-vision of course) get yourself a good PAL feature film transfer, or a high quality shot-on-video programme on LD...
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substance
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Post subject: Re: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 28 Jul 2019, 21:08 |
Confirmed Padawan |
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Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05 Posts: 3589 Location: California, USA Has thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 328 times
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yaffle2345 wrote: disclord wrote: The sad thing about PAL discs, besides the 4% audio speed up due to the 2/2 pull down to get to the 25fps rate (why they didn't use 13/14 pull down I don't understand - it would have kept the speed correct!) is the poor quality of so many of the transfers - many, many PAL LD's are simply bad conversions of NTSC masters. Plus, the PAL LD doesn't really have room to hold the PAL signal so you can't have fully saturated chroma without interfering beats in the image, etc... PAL LD's had too many compromises as compared to NTSC LD's. I feel (8 years after the event) I should stick up for PAL a little, after this scurrilous "too many compromises" attack Yes, our system played films a little fast, but at least we had smooth pictures, unlike the terrible juddering that the 3:2 pull down caused on any kind of NTSC pan - NTSC Compromise #1 I'm not sure NTSC (never twice the same colour?) had any colour advantage over PAL. In PAL land, we never needed a 'hue' control as the hue could simply not be wrong - NTSC Compromise #2 And of course the 100-odd fewer lines of NTSC resolution - NTSC Compromise #3 If you want to see the best that LD can offer (barring Hi-vision of course) get yourself a good PAL feature film transfer, or a high quality shot-on-video programme on LD... All valid points however the actual issue is the lack of high quality pal capable ld players. I have an HLD-X0 for NTSC and DVL-919E for PAL. The 919E is too noisy.
_________________ Coming Soon Derman Labs Anything Of Substance
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tarma_snk
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Post subject: Re: PAL Laserdiscs & Players Posted: 04 Aug 2019, 08:31 |
Shows curiousity |
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Joined: 02 May 2016, 09:19 Posts: 20 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 1 time
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substance wrote: All valid points however the actual issue is the lack of high quality pal capable ld players. I have an HLD-X0 for NTSC and DVL-919E for PAL. The 919E is too noisy.
True to the extent that for build there were no players to match the X0 or X9, but the D925, largely recognised as the best PAL player, put out a really good picture. When I compared it with an S9 I had, there was was certainly no vast chasm of difference. I will admit, tho, the 925 sounds very industrial when it first starts spinning up compared with my X9, but they're not really the same player, are they?! For those thinking of getting a PAL player, you want a D925. It is far better than any of the DVD-LD combos that play PAL discs for picture. As for releases on PAL - I think one of the issues that undermined the UK PAL catalogue was that around 1989 / 1990 Warner Bros stopped supporting releases in the UK (although not in France and Germany), which certainly means there's a big chunk of English language releases missing from the latter period of LD in the UK.
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