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Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdiscs https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8889 |
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Author: | trixter [ 15 Feb 2020, 21:04 ] |
Post subject: | Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdiscs |
This thread was started to discuss general techniques for archiving and restoring failing laserdiscs, namely:
I'll start with my process:
The entire path, from capture(1) to edit to export to avisynth to ffmpeg to final output compressed files, is 10-bit. It took me a long time to get avisynth verified working with 10-bit colorspaces(2) but the end result is definitely better viewing on my OLED TV than when I was doing everything 8-bit. For especially noisy footage, or for being paranoid about the capture process introducing noise, I will sometimes capture the same footage 3 or more times, and combine them in Premiere using the Linear Dodge (add) compositing method, with the opacity % set to 100/N where N is the number of captures I'm combining. This only works if every capture is exactly frame-perfect, so inspection is necessary to ensure every frame is lining up. The end result effectively averages out all transient noise, leaving only the signal. One sample result of all these processes: https://youtu.be/1dtVWr19L8I?t=807 The use of NeatVideo's artifact removal and dust/scratches removal can be beneficial in cleaning up laser rot -- but only if you don't over-apply them, since over-application can remove fine detail in the picture you want to preserve. Here's a badly rotted disc (The Motels, 8"): ...and here's what (careful!) NeatVideo processing in Premiere can do to recover it: (1)The Pioneer uses an 8-bit digital TBC but I still capture in 10-bit for the headroom. (2)hint: Use ffmpegsource for import, as avisource converts everything to 8-bit... another hint, use avisynth+ which supports YUV422P10 colorspaces) |
Author: | rhoran [ 26 Feb 2020, 02:19 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
Moving this over from a previous thread. Here is a primer on how to use AVISynth to deinterlace and upscale video: http://macilatthefront.blogspot.com/201 ... sited.html |
Author: | trixter [ 26 Feb 2020, 04:38 ] |
Post subject: | Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdiscs |
Indeed, although I tend to use this for upscaling: Code: Select all nnedi3_rpow2(rfactor=2,cshift="spline36resize",fwidth=1440,fheight=1080,threads=1) To my eyes, this results in better near-horizontal lines than a straight spline36resize or spline64resize. |
Author: | trixter [ 02 Mar 2020, 00:04 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
I don't know what version of avisynth+ that is; I'm using 20190829 r29xx (you have to get it from github, https://github.com/pinterf/AviSynthPlus/tree/MT I think). As for ffaudiosource/ffvideosource, I'm using FFMS2_2.23.1_MSVC_FFMPEG_4.2.2, also from github: https://github.com/FFMS/ffms2/releases Here's what my scripts look like: # FFMS is the only loader guaranteed to pass through 10- to 16-bit footage: X = "computer dreams finished.avi" A = FFAudioSource(X) V = FFVideoSource(X) AudioDub(V, A) # produces YUV422P10 after loading v210 input To start troubleshooting, do only the above, then info(), and see what colorspace is reported. Keep in mind that avisynth troubleshooting is beyond the scope of this specific thread; there are years of threads about that over at doom9.org if you need targeted help. |
Author: | rhoran [ 10 Mar 2020, 05:56 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
So what do you do about blended fields? The animated one I have is atrocious, and the live action one is bad, but not the worst. Funnily enough, the live action one only does this in the last part of the video for this sketch with the actors. The whole rest of the presentation is at Sea World and has clean cuts. Nearly every frame is like this In this one, there are two overlapping frames during the cut |
Author: | trixter [ 10 Mar 2020, 18:34 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
Fixing blended fields is an advanced topic best handled by searching the doom9.org forum threads there. There is a script called srestore() that has had some success, but only if the entire field/frame is blended -- yours appear blended halfway through the frame (probably the result of a pal->ntsc conversion) and there's really no way to fix that. As for overlapping frames, it is atypical, but normal, for the video content to switch on the second field of a frame. It's annoying, but if you're handling interlacing properly throughout the pipeline, it looks fine in the end result. However, what you're seeing in the second set of images you posted is not a frame delay, but a chroma delay. This is either a mastering/production error, or the result of an early dumb noise reduction process. It's possible to fix in avisynth but I haven't looked into it recently; it involves converting to YUV and then delaying the chroma only by +1 or -1 field, then reassembling. |
Author: | mikechambers [ 10 Mar 2020, 19:18 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
I don't have anything to add to this conversation right now, but I just wanted to say it's funny/nice to see you here trixter. I wasn't expecting that! |
Author: | trixter [ 10 Mar 2020, 19:47 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
Well, that's what happens when people post truly horrible laserdisc transfers on youtube of things that deserve better Thankfully, my investment has only been about $200 thus far (all discs, I got the player for free in exchange for doing a professional transfer of a rare disc for a client). |
Author: | rein-o [ 11 Mar 2020, 14:30 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
Are both the discs doing this CAV? Then wouldn't it be due to the improper 3.2 pulldown? |
Author: | rhoran [ 11 Mar 2020, 17:30 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
The anime one is CLV. The live action one is CAV. |
Author: | trixter [ 11 Mar 2020, 18:16 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
CAV vs. CLV shouldn't affect the pulldown. There might be interference from neighboring tracks with CLV but that wouldn't be causing the issues he's seeing, both of which are mastering issues. In particular, if the chroma delay is exactly one frame (field, really), then that's not a CLV issue. |
Author: | rhoran [ 12 Mar 2020, 08:11 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
Well, in the Sea World part, the cuts are clean. In this sketch, all the cuts are in between fields. I think that is the problem. |
Author: | trixter [ 13 Mar 2020, 04:22 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
Chroma on the wrong field is a mastering error. It's perfectly possible to have the chroma cut on the field as well, but whatever system did the transfer screwed that up. That was common with time-domain denoising hardware in the 1980s, unfortunately. Since the viewer will see the wrong chroma for only 1/60th of a second, I wouldn't worry about it too much, personally. There is a point where you can spend too much time on something that has questionable benefit. |
Author: | rhoran [ 13 Mar 2020, 04:31 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
I like your answer! That solves one video then. |
Author: | brmanuk [ 25 Apr 2020, 12:09 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
trixter wrote: Pioneer CLD-D606 -> Y/C -> Blackmagic Intensity Pro -> 10-bit 4:2:2 .AVI. So you're using S-Video out? I'm curious as to why you have chosen to do this when the video is stored as composite? |
Author: | trixter [ 25 Apr 2020, 18:49 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
(It's actually stored as RF.) Because my player has some light post-processing that only has benefits on the s-video port. |
Author: | ccode91 [ 04 May 2020, 19:29 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
I use the s video out on my plyayer(it has a 3d comb filter so it beats the meh 3 line 2d filter on the input on well all my tvs and cap devices) then depending on if its an ac3 disc or a disc that just has pcm stereo(I dont own any dts discs) i ether use retro tink to convert the s video and rca to hdmi and cap it with my lpg lite at 60mpbs mp4 if its an ac3 disc i use my hd pvr since it can capture ac3 5.1 correctly at 384kbit then just record. Very easy not the best but its using stuff i already had lying around and produces output good enough for a 480i digitization for me |
Author: | trixter [ 04 May 2020, 22:36 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
What HD PVR do you have? |
Author: | ccode91 [ 07 May 2020, 19:59 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Techniques for digitalization and restoration of Laserdi |
hd pvr 1212. |
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