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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2020, 18:01 
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On those outer bags - worst of all are the PVC ones. When I first got into LD, I had a bunch bought cheap at an auction and stored my first new LDs in them. After researching how nasty PVC is - as if the pungent smell wasn't enough - I tossed the sleeves. Years later, those titles still have a PVC smell, stored open to the air. You really don't want anything of value in that stuff - put a photocopied sheet of paper in PVC and watch what happens as the ink transfers and fuses with the plastic. I hope the mention of "vinyl" in this thread is not this stuff - it's easy to tell as polyvinyl chloride is thick, stiff smelly stuff compared to the good pliable types that are safe.

On the inner sleeves, I bought into the paper upgrade meme also when I was starting out with LD. Did a few upgrades of domestic titles until I ran out and my large numbers of elephant type JP imports made it look too expensive to replace them all. Also had some JP titles with the sticky glue edges that didn't get along with paper so that was the end of it. Paper really dosen't make sense for JP imports. Nice to know this was the best outcome.

Paper had some pros. For the thin paper stock, designed for vinyl, sleeves we got in the west, paper inners can provide an extra buffer against bottom/spine punch through under certain circumstances because the stiff paper structure distributes the weight more evenly versus the single point force concentration of the elephant. At least, until the paper splits, but that's a good sacrifice versus punch through. The substantial feel and lack of wrinkle was nice too.
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2020, 19:23 
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takeshi666 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
Nah, you don’t want to “roll” the disc out.

Who does that?


Someone who’s afraid to register for the forum because YOU are picking on them. :)

And almost certainly someone reading this. Many people want to extract just the disc and nothing else so all the openings are lined up on the side except for maybe the outer bag. This person knows it’s rude to open the jacket so wide he can grab the inner hole of the disc so...rolling it out is the least brutal way to do it.
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2020, 19:59 
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ryosaeba84 wrote:
I really think US' sleeves must be different from the ones we got here then, because none of the paper sleeves I have are torn or whatever. Also the sticking out problem isn't really present, most of the time it's because the outer cardboard sleeve itself is shorter than the others so the paper stick out a little but not much.


...the issue with them being too big isn’t that they stick out, it’s that they are also usually too big vertically too so they usually require force to insert and that force eventually breaks the glue on the outer sleeve.

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Although I got used to the EC sleeves I got now and know how to handle them somewhat properly, I still thinks the paper+plastic most my discs came with are way superior, either for handling, built quality or looks, because let's be honest, they aren't called elephant condoms for nothing.


The paper has one significant drawback be it a MGM disc, an aftermarket one, or a bag from a $60 200g 45RPM audiophile LP and that is that they are much less resistant to breaking through. Anyone with a big collection of discs (LD or LP, as long as they have actually been watched/heard) has paper/poly bags with a rips on them. The plastic doesn’t go to the edges. When it comes to bursting the poly lining does nothing because it isn’t at the edges. If I’ve ever had an round bottom poly break there it’s been literally once. I can’t recall it ever happening to me.

Clearly the paper stuff is nicer and easier to handle, this is not in question. The issue is that that’s not what bags are for. %99.9 of a discs life they aren’t being handled, or visible, they’re just sitting there. The liners are to protect the disc during the %99.9 and do no damage in the meanwhile so given that most JP jackets can’t contain most paper bags without stressing the rest of the package ECs are here to stay in most of our collections.

Don’t get me wrong. I too once thought the plastic needed to go, I replaced my entire (then, much smaller) collection with paper, then I slowly realized how stupid I was. Rein-O did the same thing. I’m not reading from a Wiki here, this is something everyone collecting LD will eventually agree on but it takes years and $ spent and then the maturity to realize you’d screwed up. That’s like 10 years at least. :)

Btw, your last line makes no sense. They are called Elephant Condoms because the internet came about and invented a gross name for everything. If I call your mom a dumpster but that doesn’t make it true, it would just be me speaking hyperbolically about things I don’t understand.

One thing I’d love to know; are all the pro-paper people late period (1998 or later) collectors/gamers? That is to say, are any pro paper people guys who were into the format before it was a eBay Retro collectable YouTube Facebook darling?
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2020, 00:34 
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^ I don't believe paper is at all beloved by game collectors.

Back to LD sleeves: how about reinforcing all three sides with more paper glued on? Wouldn't be too bad if you're handy with a craft knife or have a paper guillotine.
Those plastic sleeves are a headache.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2020, 00:52 
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I'm another one who's been replacing plastic with poly lined paper. Started collecting before Youtube, and can't say I've had any burst although I admit stuffing two papered LDs in one sleeve is worrisome.

A recently purchased live concert LD came in something called V.R.P. - Valuable Record Protector (non scratching, plasticizer, protective, anti-static). All plastic, but rectangular and easy to handle - the best of both worlds? :wtf:
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2020, 01:35 
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spudeus wrote:
I'm another one who's been replacing plastic with poly lined paper. Started collecting before Youtube, and can't say I've had any burst although I admit stuffing two papered LDs in one sleeve is worrisome.

A recently purchased live concert LD came in something called V.R.P. - Valuable Record Protector (non scratching, plasticizer, protective, anti-static). All plastic, but rectangular and easy to handle - the best of both worlds? :wtf:


I used to replace all my Japanese ECs with VRPs but before my last move I discovered that those are worth a bunch to LP collectors
so I bought 100 ECs from Japan for 25 bucks including shipping and sold off the 100 VRPs I had for around 2 bucks each in lots.

While they are great they just aren't worth replacing inner sleeves unless the original is trashed.
As zeta says you can handle the ECs correctly without being analretintive and get them right without wrinkling them.
Once they are wrinkled its a pain to get them in easily.

Only inner paper sleeves I use are the ones with the same material as the ECs that anti static stuff.
I remember I bought some paper ones that had regular plastic from the bags inside, they were garbage and tossed them.

And remember that Japanese sleeves are smaller than US sleeves by a small fraction, or MM and you can't really fit any of the paper ones
inside your sleeves.
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2020, 02:06 
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UMD is so pointless. The PSP battery runs out before the movie is over?? Huh??

Having a UMD is like throwing a pebble into the grand canyon.
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2020, 10:29 
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signofzeta wrote:
takeshi666 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
Nah, you don’t want to “roll” the disc out.

Who does that?


Someone who’s afraid to register for the forum because YOU are picking on them. :)

And almost certainly someone reading this. Many people want to extract just the disc and nothing else so all the openings are lined up on the side except for maybe the outer bag. This person knows it’s rude to open the jacket so wide he can grab the inner hole of the disc so...rolling it out is the least brutal way to do it.

I don't get it.

And yet I still put the ECs in the jacket sideways like you've told me to because I had no reason to question it. If nothing else, they at least look tidier that way.
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2020, 23:44 
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I'm looking for the paper sleeves.
Good ones. Need about 50. For my laserdisc. :angel:
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2020, 18:45 
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Don't know if this helps but I was given around 100 of the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab MoFi Original Master Record Inner Sleeves which I used on my F1 LDs with the ones that were left used on a few of my favourite discs.

Not sure of the cost but they are really good for laserdiscs as they fit perfectly in the slightly snugger Japanese covers.

Again not sure of the cost but the ones I was given came on bags containing 50 per bag.

The chap who gave them to me was big into vinyl & swore by them, he did have the funds to spare though.

Might be worth a look unless you are looking to replace a ton of discs but if not required in huge numbers they really are very good, they may not be that costly though.

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2020, 21:45 
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For the past week or so I’ve been double checking all my records and LDs as I play them to verify that none of them have full width poly and...I found an exception. The ones Radio Shack used to sell that say Realistic at the bottom left. Not a very respectable name, but so far those are the only paper bags I’ve noticed that don’t have %100 paper edges. In fact the poly seems to be doubled at the edges. It does make it seem likely that there are many more out there though.

EDIT: On eBay currently I see only the 7” ones and some 12” ones that don’t look like mine so I can’t say they have full width poly.
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2020, 23:16 
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Just done a quick check & the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab MoFi inner sleeves look to be on sale here in the UK for £22 to £25 for a bag of 50, they appear to be a little cheaper in the US though some sellers are asking quite a bit more.

So they around about the 50 pence each mark so not that cheap but they really are very good.

A bit from one of the sales sites & most mention laserdiscs in the blurb.

These are the same high-quality inner sleeves used by Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for their vinyl releases. They are imported, three-ply, anti-static, premium sleeves (similar to rice paper) and work with both LPs and laser discs. Back construction consists of a paper layer sandwiched between two sheets of high-density polyethylene (HDPE) with a translucent HDPE front.

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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2020, 23:19 
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je280 wrote:
Don't know if this helps but I was given around 100 of the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab MoFi Original Master Record Inner Sleeves which I used on my F1 LDs with the ones that were left used on a few of my favourite discs.

Not sure of the cost but they are really good for laserdiscs as they fit perfectly in the slightly snugger Japanese covers.

Again not sure of the cost but the ones I was given came on bags containing 50 per bag.

The chap who gave them to me was big into vinyl & swore by them, he did have the funds to spare though.

Might be worth a look unless you are looking to replace a ton of discs but if not required in huge numbers they really are very good, they may not be that costly though.

Cheers

Thanks for the info...
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2020, 06:16 
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I thought about buying more of these things you guys keep calling "elephant condoms" (really? :| ) since I have a few discs without any inner protection, but the only thing I could find were "Invest in Vinyl" versions for records. Close enough I would think?
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2020, 15:09 
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I'm going the BCW poly lined paper route; works out to about $.46 cents a sleeve, well worth it IMO. I will use these for both records and LD's.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pack-of-50-BCW ... 5478!US!-1

The cheapest i could find
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2020, 15:02 
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Had to report back....

The Poly lined paper sleeves from BCW are perrrrrfect. I've been replacing all my elephant condoms and i'm never going back to using them.

The sleeves fit great in every outer sleeve so far and are just much quicker/better for storage. I feel like they are also easier on the outer jackets (don't damage them when putting in like the super thin plastic sleeves) and fill in and support the outer dust covers better.
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2020, 08:32 
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forper wrote:
UMD is so pointless. The PSP battery runs out before the movie is over?? Huh??

Having a UMD is like throwing a pebble into the grand canyon.


I really have to stop posting when I'm drunk :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2020, 08:38 
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Anyone ever gotten a new (old) disc and found the warning labels from the EC has sort of printed itself onto the disc surface?
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2020, 10:12 
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takeshi666 wrote:
Anyone ever gotten a new (old) disc and found the warning labels from the EC has sort of printed itself onto the disc surface?

Yeah, it happened to me once, but it was easily removed with just a good wipe from a cloth.

I now understand why some of you guys hate paper sleeves, some of the US discs I just received have them, and, well, the US paper sleeve feels so cheap and flimsy compared to the ones I'm used too, a normal white paper sheet feels more resistant.
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 Post subject: Re: Paper Sleeves VS Plastic Sleeves
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2020, 10:20 
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takeshi666 wrote:
Anyone ever gotten a new (old) disc and found the warning labels from the EC has sort of printed itself onto the disc surface?


Yes, had a few like that & quite a few with a rippled look on the disc where the bag has been in contact with the disc - easy to remove though so no issues.

Cheers :thumbup:
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