LaserDisc Database
https://forum.lddb.com/

Manufacturing Dates in Mint Marks
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9059
Page 2 of 4

Author:  admin [ 16 May 2020, 06:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

blam1 wrote:
I've come across a variant where the DADC USA mint markings are carried over to Austria:
Stripes - Widescreen
USA: LDVS-002137-A-A2
Austria: A3DEELDVS2137 62


Exact!

I suppose sometimes DADC Austria would use as a 2nd source for NTSC titles.

One good example is Philadelphia (1993) [52616] carrying LDVS-002160/LDVS002160 for both masters.

Julien

Author:  admin [ 16 May 2020, 09:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

And for Pioneer Japan... we won't get to know what happens when you go beyond side #26 (== Z):

Armored Trooper VOTOMS: Perfect Collection (1983) [ATX-1]

ATX-1-A01-P   27H91320
ATX-1-B02-P   27H91397
(...)
ATX-1-Y02-P   27H91170
ATX-1-Z01-P   27H91180


Julien

Author:  confederate [ 16 May 2020, 10:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

Technidisc was the company that pressed laserdiscs for Indonesian company Soraya Intercine Films ( which is kind of an odd choice because it would make more sense to have them produced in Japan
due to its geographical proximity ).

One of the discs I have has the following mintmarks:

1119-054-008A 06/09/94E
1119-054-007A 06/07/94L

Which clearly show that the disc was mastered in 1994.

I never understood those DADC Austria mintmarks but now they make more sense thanks to this thread.

Author:  cplusplus [ 17 May 2020, 16:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

Mitsubishi:

SYMM01234

A90A00704 = Side 1, January 1999
B70E08890 = Side 2, May 1997

After October (J), it rolls over to 1A and 1B for November and December?

Author:  admin [ 20 May 2020, 06:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

admin wrote:
The Pioneer improved list found a few typos and mistakes that I fixed along the way.


I was a little too strict on the Pioneer marking filter.

Relaxed some conditions for partial mint marks and the total jumped from 3,304 to 5,096.

Julien

Author:  admin [ 25 May 2020, 04:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

admin wrote:
Relaxed some conditions for partial mint marks and the total jumped from 3,304 to 5,096.


Made another round of improvements to cope with variations in the Pioneer USA mint markings.
And while I was having fun coding array parsing, I added BOLD for continuous master serials and BOLD RED when I detect the longest continuous sequence.

https://www.lddb.com/mint/pioneer-usa

As of today:

Total = 5891
The longest continuous sequence is 21 starting from 58-330.


Improved again:

Total = 6382
The longest continuous sequence is 28 starting from 59-243.


Made the same modifications to SONY DADC:

https://www.lddb.com/mint/dadc-usa

Total = 1246
The longest continuous sequence is 10 starting from 001198.

Help us fill the gaps :-)

Julien

Author:  kid_dynamo [ 25 May 2020, 18:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

Decided to check my Technidiscs:
Canyon Dreams: Tangerine Dream (1987) [ID5171]:024-052-413F 5K21Z# also lacking the technidisc name and logo as well as A/B side indication, instead saying WRONG SIDE

Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, The (1981) [5799-80]: 433-013-234P 01/13/94K 11/16/93P

King Tut: The Face of Tutankhamun (1992) [LVD9401]: #1028-034-042A 03/21/94K

Nadia #1: Secret of the Blue Water (1989) [LVD9350]: #1028-034-054A 04/10/94L

Glenco Science & Technology: #3 - Earth & Space [G82617.02]: #802-032-005B 04/15/94E

Glenco Science & Technology: #4 - Plants & Simple Organisms [G82618.02]: #802-032-007B 04/09/94D

Glenco Science & Technology: #5 - Animals [G82619.02]: #802-032-009B 04/09/94G

Glenco Science & Technology: #6 - Ecology [G82614.02]: 802-032-012A 03192H different style of markings on this one.

Author:  blam1 [ 25 May 2020, 22:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

admin wrote:
And for Pioneer Japan... we won't get to know what happens when you go beyond side #26 (== Z):

Armored Trooper VOTOMS: Perfect Collection (1983) [ATX-1]

ATX-1-A01-P   27H91320
ATX-1-B02-P   27H91397
(...)
ATX-1-Y02-P   27H91170
ATX-1-Z01-P   27H91180


Julien


Pioneer USA never went above Side "F". Titles which required more than 6 sides would have the internal reference number advance. For example, "Gone with the Wind (CAV)" is:
51-989A1-07
51-989B1-01
51-989C1-06
51-989D1-05
51-989E1-01
51-989F1-02
51-990A1-04
51-990B1-01
51-990C1-02

Author:  admin [ 28 May 2020, 08:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

We could maybe extend the same reverse engineering to PRINCO:

Few examples:

KA7984P/KB7984P
A36955D/B36955D
A368657/B368658
A2637-0Q
A305848/B3058B5
A292836/B292836
A31286P/B31286Q
KA4067F/KB406HG
A29864F/B29864F
KA22132/KB22131


Except for KB406HG (typo in Amelia, Volume 1 (1993) [AMI-001]?), it looks like was have a master serial ID embedded:

KA22132
A2637-0Q
A36955D
A29864F
KA7984P
A379888
KA1661Q
KA1040NO
A38098P
A2723-NF
A3967BP
A2704-NL
KA0079-D6
A292936

Would that make sense?

Julien

Author:  nems [ 28 May 2020, 15:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

blam1 wrote:
Pioneer USA never went above Side "F". Titles which required more than 6 sides would have the internal reference number advance. For example, "Gone with the Wind (CAV)" is:
51-989A1-07
51-989B1-01
51-989C1-06
51-989D1-05
51-989E1-01
51-989F1-02
51-990A1-04
51-990B1-01
51-990C1-02

Hexadecimal uses digits 0–9 and characters ‘A’ through ‘F’. Although it does not look like Pioneer USA were using hexadecimal logic, perhaps they were limited to the hexadecimal character set in order to comply with some internal database.

Author:  admin [ 29 May 2020, 18:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

To help locate titles that still lack the Mint Markings information, I slightly modified the Collection list colors for LDs (that are not graded 9 or 10 -- don't want you to open a sealed disc just to check the mint marks!):

=> https://www.lddb.com/collection.php?action=list&format=ld

If you see some red-ish lines... there's some updates needed :-)

Julien

Author:  admin [ 31 May 2020, 19:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

admin wrote:
We could maybe extend the same reverse engineering to PRINCO.
Would that make sense?


Well, you can take a look and see what you think!

PRINCO => https://www.lddb.com/mint/princo

And while I was working on this:

3M/IMATION => https://www.lddb.com/mint/imation

Julien

Author:  admin [ 17 Jun 2020, 09:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

admin wrote:
As of today:
https://www.lddb.com/mint/pioneer-usa
Total = 6382
The longest continuous sequence is 28 starting from 59-243.

https://www.lddb.com/mint/dadc-usa
Total = 1246
The longest continuous sequence is 10 starting from 001198.


After a few more weeks of tweaking (and also getting more mint marks updates, maybe thanks to the LDs missing this information showing with a RED background in your collection display):

https://www.lddb.com/mint/pioneer-usa
Total = 6487
The longest continuous sequence is still 28 starting from 59-243.
The last (known) master manufactured by Pioneer USA was Babylon 5 #2.4: A Race Through Dark Places/Soul Mates [17631].

https://www.lddb.com/mint/dadc-usa
Total = 1257
The longest continuous sequence is still 10 starting from 001198.
The last (known) master manufactured by SONY DADC USA was Homegrown (1998) [25326].

Julien

Author:  ratkins [ 03 Aug 2020, 01:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

Great thread!

The early discs are numbered as well but by job number not by date. Discovision/Pioneer used a 95-xxx number for titles, continuing into 96 and 97. Digital Sound titles used a 50 prefix and then 51. The earliest 95 I have found is 95-003 "Liza Mannelli In Concert" PA-81-002. From what I can tell, Pinoeer USA would number the titles and then send to Japan for pressing. Early Japan discs would only put the catalog number for the title on the inner circle of the disc and USA pressings would put the 95 number on the outer ring. I have a list that goes up to the 96 numbers but there are a lot of gaps since titles only made in Japan for US do not have the 95 job number. I am certain quite a few titles were given a number but never released since many of the early publisher catalogs listed titles that never made it to market.

Author:  cplusplus [ 11 Sep 2020, 03:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

If not already so, would it be worth a try to match DADC USA just on "LDVS"? I noticed that the early mint marks might be quite different. Attached is a photo of Warrant: Dirty Rotten Filthy Stinking Rich: Live (1990) [ID6971CB]

DADC USA replication began in March 1990 and the oldest DADC USA mint mark currently in the list is Kickboxer (1989) [ID7320HB] which lines up quite nicely with its September 1989 theatrical release.

Attachments:
LDVS034.jpg
LDVS034.jpg [ 128.64 KiB | Viewed 563 times ]

Author:  admin [ 11 Sep 2020, 09:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

cplusplus wrote:
If not already so, would it be worth a try to match DADC USA just on "LDVS"?


I never noticed these different LDVS mint marks before.
Not sure why DADC USA had 2 different master naming schemes...

Slightly modified the parsing and now we have a few more!

Now the trick is to NOT match DADC Austria for multiple sources of the same title.
I'm padding the different ones with 0 to merge with DADC Austria when a title was manufactured at both sites.

Julien

Author:  cplusplus [ 11 Sep 2020, 20:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

admin wrote:
Slightly modified the parsing and now we have a few more!

Excellent!

admin wrote:
Not sure why DADC USA had 2 different master naming schemes...

Yes this is puzzling to me as well. I noticed how Technidisc changed theirs in a much more subtle manner three or so times.

Right after the Terre Haute plant started LD replication, they declared they were scaling up from 100k to 300k monthly within a year (source: a Telecommunications Update article from 1990). My guess is they underestimated demand and then threw a massive amount of money at the factory, casually scrapping the new "old" equipment. Warrant: Dirty Rotten Filthy Stinking Rich: Live (1990) [ID6971CB] has sharp edges that are uncharacteristic of all the other DADC USA discs I've handled. Even though it does show LDVS034 in the mint marks, LDVS 000034 is on the label.

Author:  cplusplus [ 04 Feb 2021, 02:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

Pioneer "batch" numbering:

Is the additional identifier LMDD1234 or DDML1234? It doesn't match every one but enough line up within a month of the release date to make me think this is more than coincidence. L is a placeholder for a letter that I'm unsure of the purpose. (Maybe stamper?)

Examples:
June 1st : Flashfire (1993) [LDCVM6107]
September 22nd and 24th: Smokey and the Bandit (1977) [42938]
April 4th and 6th: Extreme Prejudice (1987) [LD 62178-WS]
September 21st and 22nd: Flipper (1996) [42983]
February 2nd, 5th, and 6th: Cool Hand Luke (1967) [14300]
August 26th and 29th: Asteroid (1997) [LD 60512]

Author:  admin [ 04 Feb 2021, 07:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

cplusplus wrote:
Is the additional identifier LMDD1234 or DDML1234?


There is a clear pattern that could look like YMDDNNNN indeed, but it's not the only one.

Took all the mint marks associated with Pioneer USA that are in the form of 5x-xxxxx-xx(x) zzzzzzzz where the z's are the 8 stamped characters.

That's 2,943 sides but... oh my, so many typos that I deleted the ones submitted obviously after too many vodka shots and trimmed down to 2,930.

Then we have several schools of thoughts (L = Letter, N = Number):

2,468 as LNNNNNN where L is A to I
428 as NNNLNNN where L is A to D and the matrix runtime is 5x-NNN[AB]NN-NNN instead of 5x-NNN[AB]NN-NN ex: R.E.M.: Road Movie (1996) [ID4165WO]
18 as NNLNNNN where L is (A,C,F,G,H) ex: Jailhouse Rock (1957) [ML102564]
12 is NNNNNNNN but they all start with number 1, I suppose it's meant to be the letter I ex: Cows (Vacas) (1992) [SKL-1004]
3 as NLNNNNN, ex: Pin Ups: A Picture History of America's Dream Girls (1994) [LVD9532]

So, if we focus on LNNNNNN, it goes like this:

A1 to A3 (no example of A0)
B0 to B9
C0 to C2 (only 4 in C8 or C9)
D0 to D9
E0 to E9
F1 to F2 (only 2 in F8 or F9)
G0 to G9
H0 to H2
I0 to I9

0-9 is 10, not enough for 12 months but here are also 0-2 providing an additional 3.
13 months? :-)

Next digit is likely a day, because it mostly stays within 01 and 31.

Have examples of 31 for:
B0, B1, B5, B7, B8
D0, D1, D5
E0, E7, E8
G0, G5, G7, G8
I0, I1, I3, I7, I8

The only 2 consecutive months with 31 days are Dec-Jan and Jul-Aug.
Here we have examples of 0-1 and 7-8.

So we could think that:

December = 0
January = 1
July = 7
August = 8

If 2 is February, is Feb 29th common? No I only have 4:

C2
Duran Duran: Extraordinary World (1994) [PA-94-541]
Tom Petty: & The Heartbreakers: Playback (1995) [PA-96-569]
F2
Coeur en hiver, un (A Heart in Winter) (1992) [LV24339]
Trisha Yearwood: The Song Remembers When (1993) [PA-93-539]

3 release in 1994 (not a year with Feb 29) and 1996 (that one works).

Still no general rule... And Japanese companies are too bent on applying rules, we must be missing something.

The feeling is LN is a date encoded (year+month) or a date from the first use of the master with a backing database?
Or a twist because Japanese engineers would start counting from April (new year in Japan) instead of January?


Now looking at the next category NNNLNNNN, it breaks down to DDMLNNNN.
Days are quite obvious but the month on 10 values (0-9) and the Letter only A-D is still puzzling.

Julien

Author:  cplusplus [ 05 Feb 2021, 02:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Manufacturing Dates in Technidisc Mint Marks

Excellent, thank you for accumulating all that.

Very intuitive to check for leap day. I would really like to double check those discs, even though I would bet they are correct.

For more insight I checked some Pioneer discs I have near (D is DB, M is mine):
Drop Zone (1994) [LV 32734-WS]
D: 54-536A1-14 I7080578
M: 54-536A1-04 I5234210
Stargate (1994) [LD 60190]
D: 54-326-A22-P I1178665
M: 54-326-A18-P I1086791
Goldeneye: Special Edition (1995) [ML105544]
D: 59-212A2-55 B5150214
M: 59-212A1-28 B4190017
Body of Evidence (1993) (Uncut) [ML102987]
D: 58-413A1-07 E5180859
M: 58-413A1-04 E5161719

Letter changes:
Cool World (1992) [LV 32356-WS]
D: 53-123A1-17 E3010336
M: 53-123A1-29 F1150593
Clear and Present Danger (1994) [LV 32463-2WS]
D: LV32463-2WS-A07-P I4121761
M: LV32463-2WS-A06-P H2147942

In regards to my previous comment on 'L' being stamper related, I believe that information is in the other number: A1-04 might be Side A Mother 1, Stamper 4. It looks like as the mother/stamper numbers increase the date codes do as well. This is very tedious for me to check, but I'll continue to try to find an explicit contraindication.

Page 2 of 4 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/