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 Post subject: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 01:40 
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Just bought my first player and a few LDs to get a collection going. I looked for a bit but haven't found the exact info I need, so excuse the age-old questions.

1) I see SRD and ANA next to some releases. As far as I can tell, the ones with just ANA have stereo analog tracks. SRD seems to stand for Spectral Recording Digital and I take it that it's just some kind of stereo PCM track that can fit on one mono side (left) where the original stereo analog track was stored. Looking into that further, it seems like when digital audio entered the picture, the left analog channel was sacrificed for the stereo digital track and the right analog track became a plain mono backup of sorts. Is all of that information correct?

2) I'm located in the USA but will be moving to Europe someday. I know that there are PAL/NTSC laserdisc players in Europe, but I wanted to check on compatibility. There is a framerate, resolution, refresh rate etc difference between the two, and I believe I remember something about a change in audio pitch (due to the telecining) when playing NTSC discs in Europe. Is that true? I'm hoping that when I'm over there I could just bring my collection with me and have a good PAL/NTSC player work its magic and pretty much flawlessly do a conversion with no discernable difference.

3) Going along with the 2nd question, when playing an NTSC disc in Europe, I'm going to guess that there's at least some difference in quality due to the conversion. What would that be, and how bad is it?
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 02:33 
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I don't have answers to any of the PAL stuff, but here's the deal with ANA and SRD:

ANA just means there are no digital tracks; it doesn't imply stereo or mono. And SRD refers to Dolby Surround, which on the disc is just a normal stereo track, analog or digital or both. What makes it SRD is that in production they took surround tracks (left, center, right, rear) and downmixed them to stereo in such a way that Dolby Surround-capable receivers could extrapolate what sounds were supposed to be rerouted to the center and rear speakers. If you have a modern receiver, you can just let it do its thing in any surround mode and it'll work fine. NTSC discs can have both digital and analog tracks on the same disc. The stuff you're thinking of about things replacing one channel of the analog tracks is Dolby Digital, or AC3, which is a compressed 5.1 discrete surround soundtrack that (when present) replaces the right analog track. The vast majority of discs don't have AC3, so you probably don't need to worry about this.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 03:52 
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themagichoof wrote:
1) I see SRD and ANA next to some releases. As far as I can tell, the ones with just ANA have stereo analog tracks. SRD seems to stand for Spectral Recording Digital and I take it that it's just some kind of stereo PCM track that can fit on one mono side (left) where the original stereo analog track was stored. Looking into that further, it seems like when digital audio entered the picture, the left analog channel was sacrificed for the stereo digital track and the right analog track became a plain mono backup of sorts. Is all of that information correct?


There is a help section for that :-)

https://www.lddb.com/help/sound/

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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 06:27 
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Dual format players output the format of the disc. No laserdisc players do framerate conversion. You will have to have a dual standard display (which most newer ones are i think, here in the USA, my newer TV will recognize and play PAL just fine). You may also need a voltage converter. There were way less PAL discs made, so you may want to see if there is anything you really want on PAL before taking the plunge (NOTE: this is coming from a USA person who imported and owns several PAL players and a collection of PAL discs. Was it worth it? jury is still out...).

As for "speed up". That was done for film content, stuff filmed at ~24fps. For NTSC, 3:2 pulldown is implement expanding ~24fps to 30fps. For PAL, they just take the 24fps, and play it 4% faster. But this is / was done not just for laserdiscs, but for OTA broadcasts, and DVDs too. I am not sure if they still do it for bluray. Sometimes the audio was pitch corrected, and sometimes not.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 07:16 
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Just read Julien's page on audio. Good news because I was thinking that each of the two tracks were mono only, but it appears each track can have stereo audio embedded in it. My choice of stereo analog or stereo digital sounds great.

By the way, as a connoisseur of vinyl records and analog audio in general, I have no idea what it sounds like coming from a laserdisc. I imagine most prefer digital for various reasons, but is there a consensus on what the quality of analog tracks are like on laserdiscs?
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 07:21 
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And going back to the PAL/NTSC thing, if a PAL/NTSC player in Europe simply outputs the standard NTSC signal, it would be my European TV that would need to be able to handle it. I'm positive most newer TVs can handle both, but when I'm in Europe I'd like to get a big bulky CRT TV for nostalgic reasons.

Were NTSC-compatible PAL CRT TVs very common back then? I hope I can find one when I'm over there.

Thanks everyone for the answers.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 09:14 
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Hi there; speaking from the European side I can assure you that there shouldn’t be any problems with Europe spec TVs handling an NTSC signal, at least not decent quality CRT stuff manufactured since the mid 90s from the likes of Sony, Panasonic etc. I had a Panasonic TX-28A2 from new in 1992 and from memory I’m sure that was compatible.

Regarding the audio quality of LD analog audio - its rather similar to though perhaps a tad better than the hi-fi stereo tracks on a VHS/SVHS cassette tape, can be very good when done well but far from what can be achieved by a high-end turntable - PCM digital and 5.1 DTS audio on LD everytime for me!

If I were you starting afresh nowadays then I think I would simply buy the nicest I could afford US or Japanese NTSC only LD player and forget all about PAL disc’s, I still have a fair size collection of these some of which look & sound terrific but I don’t think I’d go out of my way now when 99.9% of the material is available in NTSC format - just my views and others could well disagree.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 11:19 
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Why did you buy a Laserdisc player?
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 04:07 
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signofzeta wrote:
Why did you buy a Laserdisc player?


It just so happens that mostly all of my favorite movies are on LD, and I come from the old school so I'm partial to the era. I've been meaning to get one for years. There are also some Japanese releases that were never released anywhere else so it was just time :)
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 04:31 
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I bought a PAL/NTSC compatible player like 10 years ago. I have bought a handful PAL titles since and played nearly none. There is really nothing exclusive to PAL. In the year 2021, the same argument can be made for NTSC LDs. There is nearly nothing worthwhile exclusive to LD anymore.

People who have been following these forums knows I have invested significant amount of my time, space and money to LD. Still own 3 or 4 top dog players and nearly a thousand titles but this doesn’t drift me from reality. I don’t see a big point in going into LD other than nostalia anymore.

Your biggest problem will be moving all those LDs and players to another continent before strugging to get a picture from a EU spec TV.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 07:15 
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substance wrote:
There is nearly nothing worthwhile exclusive to LD anymore.



Yes, that might be true for Hollywood films but I still believe there are many very interesting music releases on LD
exclusive to that format and VHS. There are also other niche genre titles I find interesting plus many lesser known
Hong Kong films that were only released on VCD/VHS. Plus there are also many US films that have not been released
on Blu-Ray yet so I don't think the LD is a worse choice here ( better picture quality vs significantly better sound quality ).

Yes but if you are into Hollywood films solely then it does not make any sense buying films on LD any longer. That is true.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 12:35 
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themagichoof wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
Why did you buy a Laserdisc player?


It just so happens that mostly all of my favorite movies are on LD, and I come from the old school so I'm partial to the era. I've been meaning to get one for years. There are also some Japanese releases that were never released anywhere else so it was just time :)


If you come from the old school then why haven’t you already had a collection? The very last players were made 12+ years ago, the last retail discs almost a decade earlier with the real peak of the format being a decade before that and it’s actual invention a decade before that. That statement doesn’t really make any sense. You’re *super* tardy for old school! :)

While I do occasionally buy classic b/w movies or certain very specific LDs of other kinds my main field of interest in LD these days is anime that debuted on the format and anime exclusive to the format. There is less and less of that every day and that’s probably the largest area of exclusives on LD other than scenery discs and music nobody listens to anymore. Movies, actual normal well regarded Hollywood movies people still like are better and cheaper on Blu-ray and there is a much larger selection. Getting an LD player to watch Back to the Future or Raiders is a massive waste of money.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 12:56 
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Give me an example. Tell me a movie, Hollywood or otherwise that I can’t find on Blu-ray or DVD. People often make that remark but rarely mentions those movies or if they do, those movies are utmost rubbish that no one cares to watch.

Severin, Vinegar, Shout, Arrow, Code Red and many other labels produce many niche titles on Blu-ray that you can’t even find them on LD or VHS. Often times the LD versions are way more expensive and difficult to find. Especially those HK releases.

If you are a movie lover which means you watch your movies, there isn’t much business in LD. If you are a collectard then nevermind what I said.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 14:07 
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To be fair…forget DVD. Take it out of the equation. How many movies are on LD and don’t have a BR that is better?

True Lies and The Abyss still? I haven’t been keeping track. Some David Lynch stuff. There are a few things. Light of Day…? :)

If you include DVD and BR world-wide then it leaves out nearly zero Hollywood titles as LD exclusive. A lot of DVDs suck though so let’s not go there.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 17:39 
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Sorry. I was replying to confederate because I thought he was replying to me. I kept DVD in the equation because they are easily obtainable. LDs have become outrageously expensive for anything remotely outside Hollywood.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 18:48 
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confederate wrote:
substance wrote:
There is nearly nothing worthwhile exclusive to LD anymore.



Yes, that might be true for Hollywood films but I still believe there are many very interesting music releases on LD
exclusive to that format and VHS. There are also other niche genre titles I find interesting plus many lesser known
Hong Kong films that were only released on VCD/VHS. Plus there are also many US films that have not been released
on Blu-Ray yet so I don't think the LD is a worse choice here ( better picture quality vs significantly better sound quality ).

Yes but if you are into Hollywood films solely then it does not make any sense buying films on LD any longer. That is true.


Yeah, there is a lot of Hong Kong stuff, some of which has been released on dvd or bluray but not all.
Lots of anime and music, and some silent stuff, much more than lets say CED but due to years and all I can't see LD
being a good option for a collector of today unless you absolutely must have a silent film, anime or music
that has no other home format release.

But the longer we go the more will happen and the main reason to keep LD in the next 3-10 years will be due to the fact
that we can't justify to ourselves to get rid of the format as we have invested so much time and money over the years and
it does still bring us joy when we hold it.

I for one am sort of out of buying LDs, only stuff I will get are deals on ebay that I can filp or anime that I want to horde
unless I can get a crazy price for either.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 20:42 
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There's loads of fun stuff to still be discovered on Laserdisc. :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2021, 15:37 
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I got into it in the mid-2000's because it was still viable. Blu-ray swept me up for a bit but I got back into LD for some reason I'm not sure of. I just really enjoy the format. There could be a perfect 4K release, but if the same cut is on LD, that is what I'll be watching.

If playing back PAL in a NTSC region, you will need both a PAL/NTSC player and PAL capable TV. I use a Philips DVD recorder as pass through to handle the PAL signal for my NTSC TV. I have a CLD-2950 that I have serviced, but NTSC playback is still mediocre. It seems just a step under the CLD-D503. I have heard the CLD-D925 is possibly the best PAL/NTSC player, but the CLD-2950 is mentioned usually second and it and is much more likely to survive shipping.
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 Post subject: Re: New here with a couple of LD questions
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2021, 03:52 
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themagichoof wrote:
I come from the old school so I'm partial to the era. I've been meaning to get one for years. There are also some Japanese releases that were never released anywhere else so it was just time :)


The best reason to get a laserdisc player is because you want one. I've had one for thirty years and never regretted it. I've got a lot of discs over the years but who cares? It's my money. As long as you're not neglecting your family it's a great hobby. I also really enjoy searching through old collections at garage sales and second-hand stores (some countries like Japan are amazing for this), though that has become less frequent in recent years. I will probably never get a PAL player but I have found PAL discs in the past that were cool, like Charro!, a Star Trek tribbles box, or animated Lone Ranger discs.

I've had people tell me over the years that I should buy VHS or DVD or what-ever. I haven't seen any reason to do it. It's not like my eyesight is getting better with age anyways! :P

Having been stuck at home more for the past two years, I've still been finding new movies and shows to watch, plus I still enjoy re-watching my favorites all the time.
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