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 Post subject: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 20:34 
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Apocalypse Now (1979) [LV2306-3WS]

Apocalypse Now was the first Laserdisc ever to be THX certified and that edition was released on December 29th in 1991. However, it was an early THX prototype and it had no kind of THX log or intro.

In 1997, Paramount re-released the film on Laserdisc with a new THX remaster and a 5.1 soundtrack in Ac3. This is was the first edition of the film I ever bought and I've been interested to make a review of the edition itself. Now, I found it to be more interesting to make a comparison between the Laserdisc and the other editions of the movie that I own. Here they are.

Edition specifications:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Laserdisc: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] - US edition
THX Certified
Released on April 1st, 1997
Runtime: 153 mins (theatrical version)
Distributor: Paramount.
Aspect ratio: 1.9:1 (cover incorrectly says 2.35:1)
Soundtrack: Dolby surround on both Digital channels
Mono-track on left analog channel
Ac3-track on right analog channel
CC: English
Side 1, 2 and 3 in CLV. Side 4 in CAV.
Chapters: 20

DVDs: Apocalypse Now Redux [DVD 922854] - Scandinavian edition
Released on March 20th, 2002
Runtime: 194 mins (Redux)
Distributor: Sandrews metronome
Aspect ratio: 2:1 (anamorphic, cover incorrectly says 2.35:1)
Soundtrack: 5.1 Dolby Digital, English
Subtitles: English, Swedish, Danish, Finnish and Norwegian
Bitrate: 4.68 mbit/sec
Chapters: 36
Region 2
PAL

Apocalypse Now [P9157DVD] - UK edition
Released on October 18th, 2004
Runtime: 141 mins (Theatrical version, cover incorrectly says 147 mins)
Distributor: 20th Century Fox Home Ent.
Aspect ratio: 2:1 (anamorphic)
Soundtrack: 5.1 Dolby Digital, English
Subtitles: English
Bitrate: 6.18 mbit/sec
Chapters: 20
Region 2
PAL

Blu-Ray: Apocalypse Now [21330] - Canadian edition
Released on October 19th 2010
Runtime: 147 mins (theatrical version) + 196 mins (Redux)
Distributor: LionsGate
Aspect ratio: 2.35:1
Soundtrack: DTS-HD Master Audio English, 5.1
Subtitles: English, Spanish and French
Bitrate: 17.99 mbit/sec
Chapters: 20 (theatrical version) + 36 (Redux)
Region free
1080p/23.976 fps.


This review will cover up a comparison of all these four editions. However, I will only compare the theatrical version (no of the Redux-sequences in the Scandinavian edition will be discussed for instance). Let's just get started.

Packaging: Laserdisc comes in a very nice gatefold, filled with pictures and a production report. Both of the DVDs are in standard DVD-cases with nothing too special (the Scandinavian DVD have som ugly comments from critics on the cover). The Blu-Ray comes in a pretty pointless slimcase but uses the same kind of artwork as the Laserdisc.



Last edited by nissling on 10 Feb 2013, 20:37, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 20:35 
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The review continues...

Picture: All editions seems to have different composition of the picture, yet all of them are very watchable in terms of aspect ratios. This movie was shot in Technivision and its negative aspect ratio is 2.35:1 which the Blu-Ray is presented in.

Now, as this Laserdisc was released as late as in 1997, there are much hope for good picture quality. And the truth is that this is one of the best looking Laserdiscs I've seen. Sharpness is very fine, contrast is good and brightness is better than one would except from a Laserdisc. Colors are surprisingly good and gives an authentic feeling for the film and noise is rare. In terms of picture quality, this is, simply, Laserdisc at its best.

The Scandinavian edition does make a decent presentation in terms of picture quality. Brightness is certainly good and, while looking a little soft at times, it still has tolerable sharpness. Colors are a bit bold but this edition is after all over ten years old, so I won't judge Sandrews for this presentation.

Where the Scandinavian edition fails, the UK edition delivers. The picture is tighter, richer and some scenes have dramatically better textures. Contrast have been improved and even though it seems to be a bit too dark at times, it still looks deeper. Some good grain is presented as well. If you only have a DVD-player, this is the edition I recommend.

You think that the Blu-Ray would be the ultimate way to see this film with the best possible image. Well... The truth isn't that easy if you ask me. While the picture probably looks better than the other editions, I can't say I'm very impressed by it. Much like the Scandinavian DVD, the colors are bold and it lacks in textures. Just look at the third picture, to me, it doesn't look as sharp or rich as the UK DVD. It doesn't seem like it have been some excessive DNR on this edition, I can still remember seeing a 70mm-copy of this film in the theatre that didn't look more textured than the Blu-Ray. But no matter what, I seriously expect more than this weak, flat upgrade. On the other hand it is at least presented in 2.35:1 which some fans of the film seem to prefer rather than the cropped 2:1 versions.

If you're looking for the best picture-quality, which one would it be? The Laserdisc pushes the format to its limits and is strongly recommended for those with a Laserdisc-player, but the UK edition is still strong. I would only recommend the Blu-Ray for those who cannot stand to watch anything that is in lower resolution than 720p, it's not a reference quality title on that format.

About the screenshots of the Laserdisc, those are taken with a poor videocard and doesn't do justice for the picture-quality. The player is a Pioneer CLD-D505, connected with S-video.

Screenshots:
[Reveal] Spoiler: Screenshots
Laserdisc:
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 18s106.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 6m16s4.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 30s157.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m37s37.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 05s214.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 26s234.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 41s142.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 15s227.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m32s78.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m54s86.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 08s199.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 18s148.png

Scandinavian DVD:
Subtitle sample: http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 11s156.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 52s215.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 23s190.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m25s30.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 34s195.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 36s249.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 59s237.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 50s241.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m48s33.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 47s126.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m27s19.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 35s137.png

UK DVD:
Subtitle sample: http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m03s39.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 21s213.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m06s83.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 14s239.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m23s67.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 34s229.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m00s69.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 39s251.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m52s55.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m50s77.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 37s163.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 37s242.png

Blu-Ray:
Subtitle sample: http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m42s22.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 14s166.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m30s40.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 13s199.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m12s52.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m48s68.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 49s151.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m13s43.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 52s173.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m52s22.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... m47s59.png
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t41 ... 25s161.png


Audio: When it comes to audio, let's just get one thing clear... The Laserdisc is a killer. While I only have a 2.0 setup, I did understand already when watching it for the first time that it would be difficult for even a Blu-Ray to compete with it. It's a very strong, rich soundtrack that defines the word lossless audio. Bass have some very low frequences and is very well mixed. Overall, a flawless soundtrack for the Laserdisc.

Both of the DVDs are pretty much identical in terms of audio. The helicopter-attack sounds thin in comparison to the Laserdisc and neither has as well-mixed soundtracks. Still, it's quite good for DVD and is never bad in any way. Crisp and clear, just not as spectacular as the Laserdisc.

The Blu-Ray boosts with a heavy DTS-HD MA track that sounds almost as good as the Laserdisc. Depth exists and is good enough for being lossless but I do still find the Laserdisc being a bit more authentic. Still, it's very good.

Hearing is believing and the only way to hear what strenght the Laserdisc has in terms of audio is to actually watch it. Much like the picture-quality, this is some of the best presentations I've seen on the format but the Blu-Ray has also a very nice soundtrack.

Summary: Which one do I prefer in general? As I am a big fan of Laserdisc and this edition truly makes a remarkable presentation, that's the edition I would keep. Great picture, great audio and great package... Just great. The Blu-Ray is far from perfect in terms of picture-quality but I seem to be the only one thinking so while at least the UK DVD is better than average for the format.

Even though Apocalypse Now is an overrated movie in my opinion, I think most of you will find qualities in it, no matter if you watch it on Laserdisc, DVD or Blu-Ray. But if you have to choose one, choose the Laserdisc. And for gods sake, don't watch Redux.
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2013, 02:24 
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Fantastic review and thank you so much for those screenshots of all the versions on LD, DVD and Blu-Ray. Both DVDs and the Blu-Ray have much deeper richer colours with stronger black levels, but they almost looked filtered compared to the Laserdisc which looks more natural IMO. I've seen a HD TV version and I wasn't all that impressed to be honest. It was compressed to hell with sparks of print damage.

Very surprised that the Laserdisc has better audio quality then the Blu-Ray! Especially since Blu-Ray has a modern advanced DTS-HD tracks. I guess it goes to show how ahead of its time Laserdisc was when it can *sometimes* match it with more modern formats in picture or sound quality.
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2013, 10:01 
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alien wrote:
Very surprised that the Laserdisc has better audio quality then the Blu-Ray! Especially since Blu-Ray has a modern advanced DTS-HD tracks. I guess it goes to show how ahead of its time Laserdisc was when it can *sometimes* match it with more modern formats in picture or sound quality.


Maybe the fact that it was reviewed and compared on a 2.0 setup kinda killed the whole audio section of this review.
I always thought the old pseudo THX LD already was a killer, the subwoofer was going wild on many occasions.
And when the huge Napalm load is dropped ... omfg!
And yeah you should hear this movie in a properly setup multichannel environment.
Total new experience from 2.0, trust me!
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2013, 10:31 
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lons_vex wrote:
Maybe the fact that it was reviewed and compared on a 2.0 setup kinda killed the whole audio section of this review.


Heh, I am a mono-guy at heart and I've never been much for surround.
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2013, 03:35 
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lons_vex wrote:
alien wrote:
Very surprised that the Laserdisc has better audio quality then the Blu-Ray! Especially since Blu-Ray has a modern advanced DTS-HD tracks. I guess it goes to show how ahead of its time Laserdisc was when it can *sometimes* match it with more modern formats in picture or sound quality.


Maybe the fact that it was reviewed and compared on a 2.0 setup kinda killed the whole audio section of this review.
I always thought the old pseudo THX LD already was a killer, the subwoofer was going wild on many occasions.
And when the huge Napalm load is dropped ... omfg!
And yeah you should hear this movie in a properly setup multichannel environment.
Total new experience from 2.0, trust me!

Heh, I wish I had any kind of surround system. Unfortunately I don't because its just too expensive to buy an amp and then speakers. I just don't have the funds to do so. My maximized custom made sound settings is how I get the best audio I can via the HDTV speakers. Its the only option I got and while some tracks can sound awesome with rich detail (like the DTS-HD track on the Jurassic Park Blu-Ray I saw a couple of nights ago) I'm under no illusions of what I am missing out on and its unfortunate.
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2013, 21:41 
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Thanks for digging into this. Since I came across both the 91 and 97 remastered LDs in a sale, and first saw the film on the 91 VHS I was very interested in comparing them. I've seen every LD and DVD version of the film save for the BD. Here are my opinions:

The 1991 master was color timed in a very specific way and thus it and all versions derived from it have a specific look which is not found on any later release. This is used for the 91 LD, VHS, 97 LD remaster and initial 1999 DVD release.
The Redux version was first used for the 2001 DVD version.
The 2006 Complete Dossier edition utilized a new master struck off of the Redux version, and merely edited out the added parts to re-create the 1979 theatrical film. This is the same way they made the BD version, so essentially neither is truly the original 1979 film.

I prefer the 91 Laser on all accounts for color. It seems to have the perfect balance of saturation and contrast. The remastered LD version seems to have some slight usage of edge enhancement and other filtering to improve the image. The 1999 DVD is this same version in 480p. The Complete Dossier looks like a modern film approach and is to my eyes crap. The BD goes a long way to correcting this.
The usage of the Redux as the base for the theatrical film is unforgivable. They are different films that were made and processed in different ways. At least we have finally been given back the 2.35 original ratio.

Onto sound. The '91 LD was made by original designer and overall guru Walter Murch, who essentially took the original split surround Dolby stereo audio master and processed it with little to no manipulation into Dolby ProLogic. This is without a doubt, one of the single best audio tracks ever released for the home. Brilliant dynamic range and truly immerses you in the experience of the film despite not being discrete audio. It even sounds phenominal in stereo or on headphones.
Murch also made the ac3 remastered track which was re-used for the 1999 DVD. I have listened to both and find it nearly equal to the PCM matrixed version. The discrete effects go a long way towards the immediacy of the experience, but I do prefer the matrixed version. I did notice that the PCM track on the remastered LD did not have the same punch or impact which I think is due to it being EQ'd and perhaps lowered in volume.

The less said about Redux the better. Not only do I loathe the piece of crap for ruining one of the greatest films ever made, but I did not care one bit for the more modern surround usage.

The Complete Dossier mix is unimpressive and has none of the range of the previous versions.

From what I have heard of the BD mix it is far more accurate and faithful to the original mix, and will sound quite stellar. But I don't think it will top the original 1991 transfer.

In other words, when you watch the 91 or 97 Laser, you pee yourself during the jungle scene. ;)

Note: The '91 Laser has one downside. At the end of each side, the scene slowly fades out instead of running to black.
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2013, 01:55 
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It wasn't until 1991 that any 35mm Dolby Stereo print or home video version of Apocalypse Now had a Dolby Surround Soundtack. As stated in Mix Magazine:

Quote:
Although the 6-track mix was noted for its creative use of surrounds, the 1979 Lt-Rt of Apocalypse contained no (intentional) surround information, so great was Murch's fear of the downside of badly aligned surrounds

At the time, most Dolby Stereo decoders in theaters used the vastly inferior Sansui Vario-Matrix logic system for surround steering, although the Tate DES-based decoders were slowly becoming available. So Walter Murch made it a standard stereo mix and any surround was "magic", created by the natural leakage of the phase-matrix based Dolby MP encoding and this was the mix used for all VHS/Beta and LaserDisc releases until 1991 when he finally went back and remixed the sound with the 70mm surrounds specifically encoded into Dolby Surround.

The funny thing is, the LaserDisc had always been use as a demo for Dolby Surround, yet it contained no encoded surrounds.
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013, 19:59 
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Wow, that's interesting. So the original 35mm release and everything pre-1991 was merely stereo.
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 Post subject: Re: Apocalypse Now [LV2306-3WS] (1997) vs. various editions
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013, 22:06 
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sdraper wrote:
Wow, that's interesting. So the original 35mm release and everything pre-1991 was merely stereo.


Yep, the 35mm prints and home video versions of Apocalypse Now were stereo only until 1991 when Walter Murch finally remixed the soundtrack with matrixed surrounds added.
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