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 Post subject: Re: Genesis: Invisible Touch Tour (1988) [42LS 2008]
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2021, 18:12 
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mikechambers wrote:
The DVD version looks a bit better than I remember. It's been many years since I had played it. It doesn't look too bad. I think my memory confused it having bad MPEG artifacts with The Way We Walk DVD.

I just chose the same one minute clip out of the concert for each sample.

DVD: http://dedi.rubbermallet.org/tonight-dvd.mkv (460 MB)

Laserdisc deinterlaced, no noise reduction: http://dedi.rubbermallet.org/tonight-ld-raw.mkv (638 MB)

Laserdisc deinterlaced, with noise reduction: http://dedi.rubbermallet.org/tonight-ld-filter.mkv (516 MB)

You can clearly see what I mean about the chroma noise in the LD clip without noise reduction.

I think the audio on the LD puts the DVD to shame. You're hearing the digital track, but through the analog audio outs on the LD player so that mean's the player's DAC is used. I have no way right now to rip the raw SPDIF bitstream.

Again, this is with a Denon LA-2300. (I believe it's a CLD-515 clone)


You won’t believe this but my brand new iPad 8th gen will not let me see this neither will iPhone 6s but I’ve just dug out the old iPad 4 and I think it’s slowly loading.....fingers crossed!
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 Post subject: Re: Genesis: Invisible Touch Tour (1988) [42LS 2008]
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2021, 18:21 
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Good luck! I guess you don't have a desktop or laptop? I'm thinking the media player on your devices don't support these obsure-ish lossless codecs. Though I used huffyuv this time, so it's really not that obscure.

You might want to see if VLC player is available for your devices in the app store. That should work. I have an Android, so I'm not sure about what's on Apple's store.
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 Post subject: Re: Genesis: Invisible Touch Tour (1988) [42LS 2008]
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2021, 18:31 
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First of all many thanks for going to all this trouble, its close to evening meal time here so I’m going to dig my MacBook Pro out later and hopefully I’ll hit lucky then report back! Cheers :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Genesis: Invisible Touch Tour (1988) [42LS 2008]
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2021, 19:15 
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Eureka!! Managed to play the LD Raw clip so far and yes I can what you mean about that noise, now I’m 99% sure that I’ve not seen anything close to that running the X9 via Lumagen 2144 then to Sony 4K PJ. I’m off to eat now Mike then I’ll view the other clips before I get back, great job you did there btw :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Genesis: Invisible Touch Tour (1988) [42LS 2008]
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2021, 23:03 
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Well I’ve viewed them all now and using NR on the clip from Invisible Touch certainly improves things quite dramatically I’d say; I’ll try to get in my home theatre tomorrow evening as I really need to refresh my memory regarding this disc after all this, there didn’t seem to be a great improvement on the DVD version to my eyes compared to the filtered LD clip but even just listening on apple EarPods there is a marked audio quality drop versus the LD....does the DVD have a PCM audio option or is it only horrible lack lustre DD2.0 for stereo? Don’t know about you but for me even LPCM on DVD doesn’t seem to carry the weight and authority that LD PCM audio manages to achieve tbh?

Finally I just can’t believe the PQ on The Way We Walk clip, you have to be correct when saying it was originated on native NSTC kit; the sharpness of that video makes for a night and day comparison with the Pioneer LDCE release that I own, I see one of the LDDB shops has a copy of the US LD for $16 and its only located next door to us in the Netherlands so shipping should be ok - thanks for advising on this one and I have a couple more related questions like this concerning other concert LDs which I’m hoping you may have in your collection Mike if you don’t mind me asking but I’ll leave that for another post :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Genesis: Invisible Touch Tour (1988) [42LS 2008]
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2021, 06:04 
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Yep, I agree 100% the DVD gives only a minimal video improvement, if anything. In fact, it might even be a hair more blurry... and yes, they used DD2.0 and it sounds so weak and muddy compared to the PCM on the LD! So, I'd say the LD is the clear winner here overall. When you're watching a concert video, the main concern is the sound! The PQ is close enough to not matter. :)

Definitely pick up the TWWW NTSC release if you can, it's a great disc and the situation is similar with the audio compared to the DVD. I just tested that now out of curiosity.

Which other discs did you have questions about? My concert LD collection isn't too huge, but maybe I have what you're wondering about!
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 Post subject: Re: Genesis: Invisible Touch Tour (1988) [42LS 2008]
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2021, 17:32 
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mikechambers wrote:
Yep, I agree 100% the DVD gives only a minimal video improvement, if anything. In fact, it might even be a hair more blurry... and yes, they used DD2.0 and it sounds so weak and muddy compared to the PCM on the LD! So, I'd say the LD is the clear winner here overall. When you're watching a concert video, the main concern is the sound! The PQ is close enough to not matter. :)

Definitely pick up the TWWW NTSC release if you can, it's a great disc and the situation is similar with the audio compared to the DVD. I just tested that now out of curiosity.

Which other discs did you have questions about? My concert LD collection isn't too huge, but maybe I have what you're wondering about!


I’ve just returned from reacquainting myself with ITT-HD - viewing 2-3 minutes of each chapter on both sides of the disc, oh that audio is just awesome! Moving on to PQ on side 1. All looked good with chroma noise while occasionally visible never became intrusive enough to trouble me, there was also no sign of the vertical wavy lines that were noticeable on the raw clip. Moving onto side 2. I forget which track it was but on a very intense blue background behind the stage I noticed wavy lines just briefly for the first time and they became apparent occasionally on further tracks when this deep blue backdrop re-occurred although if I’m honest considering this was using the 89” 4:3 screen they weren’t particularly troubling with the overall chroma noise still pretty much under control, I found other more positive aspects of PQ such as sharpness and good detail resolution in darker scenes held my interest - particularly the various crowd shots where it was possible to see individuals in good detail even when not in particular close-up.

Just to add - the X9s filter strength was set at 50% with both Chroma & Luma noise reduction controls set to min positions and no NR of any type engaged on the Lumagen. I’d love to see this LD run on an X0 or perhaps a CLD-97 which I believe are even lower noise than the X9, even better though would have been a Muse/Hi-Vision LD release of this - what a wasted opportunity by Sony back then! I’ll PM you regarding that other disc as I reckon I’ll be taking this thread too far OT.
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