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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2020, 20:25 
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gypsy wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
I consider that sort of thing to be just part of the inscrutable mystique of the show.

But then, like I said, I never finished it. I’m not sure I’ve finished any anime with that many episodes. 100 is way too many, IMO. One year is a good max if there is a lot to say, honestly I prefer 26 or less. :)

I do love the movies quite a bit, the first one especially but the second one is pretty great too.


24-26 episodes is the sweet spot. Just a single season and it's a bit short, too much beyond that and you almost always have filler/episodic content.

I have finished Yu Yu Hakusho, Rurouni Kenshin and some other way too long series. I've finished a lot more in the 48-51 range though. It does start getting difficult to finish shows that go beyond that. I've actually never finished Lupin Part 2 and I love Lupin. I've seen literally everything else Lupin that's been put out for release in the US. I do enjoy nibbling at episodes of it here and there.


I have to say GE999 and Macross are 2 series that I have finished and will watch over again.
When I get time I'll setup the GE999 to start again, possibly flip between GE999 and start Macross 7 possibly after I finish Casshan the 70s anime.

What you are saying is pretty much spot on with Godmars, after the first half they re hash the same story with a different character
for another 30 episodes.

Never felt that for GE999 but I'm also a fan of that show/series more than others, I would say GE999 is first and Macross is 2nd.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 07:46 
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Maison Ikkoku is one of the most satisfying shows I've ever watched and the longest at 96 episodes.

I'm tempted to try to watch all of Urusei Yatsura TV based on that but I get the idea it's not going to be as compelling and probably a lot more repetitive? Ranma got repetitive
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 09:48 
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rein-o wrote:
What you are saying is pretty much spot on with Godmars, after the first half they re hash the same story with a different character for another 30 episodes.

What I do find kind of funny is the fact that the animation quality gets a noticeable bump for that second half. The titular robot no longer moves entirely in still frames.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 16:00 
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my dad gifted me the deluxe edition RANMA OVA and Movies blu-ray set a couple/three years back.

recently gave it a second viewing, and... NOPE.

Shampoo-chan is, IMO, the series' one and only saving grace.

i mean, i WANTED to like the characters and overall style and such, but... it was all just so profoundly STUPID.

to each their own...
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 16:10 
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Yeah, I've lost interest part way through Ranma. Urusei Yatsura is far better and I've rewatched the whole thing several times (which is saying a lot considering it's a few hundred episodes).
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 19:31 
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I finished watching this series yesterday and have had a day to mentally digest it.

Humanity Has Declined
The final three episodes were a bit more sane than the initial nine episodes. The entire series really is screwed up and out of chronological order, and it doesn't help that every episodes title screen claims it to be "Episode 1". There is only one other anime series I can kind of compare this series with, and that is Melody of Oblivion. And to be honest, that's not a very good comparison considering the aforementioned series at least had a plot to follow.

I'm still trying to work out what, if anything, the plot was in Humanity Has Declined. Presently, my thoughts are that it didn't have a central plot nor even a very well comprehensible theme. A couple of episodes had very vague human-to-human relationship as the sort of last minute surprise theme that really didn't logically present anything the viewer was likely to have guessed at as to what all the non-sense leading up to the episode reveal was going to be about. In this case, I don't think that even putting the episodes into chronological order and watching them that way would have made this series any better, though couldn't have made it any worse, as it still lacked any perceivable plot and gave us a cast of rather poorly developed characters to watch. Though to be fair to the series on this specific last point; Watashi, the pink-haired heroine, is the main character and only character who appears in all twelve episodes. There are interesting supporting role characters, but we only get to have development of one of them other than the Watashi. Also the question of "why has humanity declined?" is never actually addressed, and this comes across as incredibly odd considering how well populated the towns and villages in this very bizarre sci-fi future-set story are.

Now, not to be entirely negative of the series it was something very different... very, very different. It had a very sugar coated and chipper atmosphere, until it sprang those shock moments on you that you really weren't expecting. Post episode 2 though you were just kind of anticipating the series to do more than it ended up doing as nothing really topped episode 2... which I believe was chronologically episode 12. But it's hard to talk about this series and not go back to the glaring problems, and deciding to mimic The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya by having the episodes out of order was a really bad decision here on the part of whomever was responsible, as the series would've been mediocre at best had it been in chronological order. As it stands though, what is arguably the most memorable episode of the series is episode 2, and again it is perceivably episode 12 if going chronologically. So I can't imagine that this series went over well when it aired in Japan with the best episode (imo) being only episode 2. I don't even know if there's a guide for the order in which to watch the episodes of this series lurking somewhere abouts on the internet, but I would strongly advise anyone who is planning to watch it, that hasn't watched it yet, to seek out such a guide and try to watch the episodes in that order instead of the on discs order, your brain will thank you.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 23:18 
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harlock wrote:
Yeah, I've lost interest part way through Ranma. Urusei Yatsura is far better and I've rewatched the whole thing several times (which is saying a lot considering it's a few hundred episodes).


IIRC there was an 18 episode Ranma 1/2 series and it was fine. Then there is the 23,456 episode series that I’m pretty sure is still playing and I can’t imagine how anyone could still be a fan for that long.

“Too much” isn’t a thing for a lot of people. There are shows like Steven Universe where the creator actively calls it quits when the story is told and then there are people who just don’t care at all what the show even is as long as the money faucet doesn’t stop. Nausicaa vs Naruto.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 00:13 
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The Ranma anime actually got cut off. It's definitely another too long anime, while also being more or less completely episodic. The "plot" is such that it can go on forever, but unlike Detective Conan the manga did end.

@Forper: I really need to watch Maison Ikkoku but it's pretty unobtainable. I'd love to get the LD set, maybe with some patience. Certainly not paying the current asking prices for the DVD sets.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 20:29 
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I cheated and watched it on download a few years ago before I dedicated myself to genlock4life. I'll get the LD set one day too..
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 23:09 
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gypsy wrote:
@Forper: I really need to watch Maison Ikkoku but it's pretty unobtainable. I'd love to get the LD set, maybe with some patience. Certainly not paying the current asking prices for the DVD sets.

If you feel like paying through the nose for the shipping...

https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/det ... 07&lang=en
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 23:27 
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takeshi666 wrote:
gypsy wrote:
@Forper: I really need to watch Maison Ikkoku but it's pretty unobtainable. I'd love to get the LD set, maybe with some patience. Certainly not paying the current asking prices for the DVD sets.

If you feel like paying through the nose for the shipping...

https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/det ... 07&lang=en


Appreciate it. The alternatives are a $50-150 bootleg BD (lolno though I have heard the quality on these does vary depending on the seller) and the legit DVDs curve sharply upwards after Vol 4. Though it appears some LDs are missing? Or maybe they mean those discs are opened/have no obi. I'll have to message them.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2020, 12:29 
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hey takeshi, try not to potentially blow up stuff for the person you're trying to help out, better by PM.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2020, 18:34 
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Just finished watching Mobile Suit Gundam, watched it on the mighty LaserDisc boxset I have.
Took me a while to finish it though as I stopped midway through the series because I was getting tired of it (more on that below).

The anime starts quite nicely and has a good rhythm in it's time allocation for action scenes and dialogues/expository scenes for the first few episodes, also the Mobile Suits looks great imo and the animation isn't bad (I know it's an old anime, so I kept that in mind to judge the animation).
Oh yeah, and the music was quite nice and catchy, especially the openings and some of the recurrent cues and themes.
But then, around let's say ep.15 (arbitrary number, don't remember exactly), the anime started to fall in some kind of episode scheme, for like 10 or more episodes in a row it was either "Oh look, Zeon has a new mobile suit, will it be able to defeat the Gundam" "Oh my god, Zeon has another Mobile suit, but this one goes underwaterrrr..." or it was "oh no, this guy is deserting, but then he came back", then "oh no, this one guy is also deserting, but he'll also come back, be sure to check out next episode which will be that other guy desertion episode where he'll also come back at the end".
I was just for Zeon at this point, I just wanted them to win so the white base soldiers would just stop their one at a time whining about being in a war. And that's where I gave up and stopped watching.

Fast Forward to a few days ago, I was just so bored that I was like "hey why not try to continue watching this thing" so I started watching it again, and here I am, having just finished watching the last episode.
The episodes where way better than the ones that made me stop to be honest.
I also have to say that those last 3 episodes are really great and show us an engaging final battle.

As a conclusion I'd say that Mobile suit Gundam is kind of a mixed bag for me, because there is like :
-1/4 of really good episodes
-2/4 of ok/average episodes
-1/4 of really bad/boring episodes

So I'm questioning myself, what made this anime so famous, was it only for the robots design ? I'm know it's a '79 anime, as it's the oldest anime I have seen, I don't know much about this period or the period before it, and maybe this anime was groundbreaking in some way at the time, but know, it just feels dull most of the time.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2020, 19:55 
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Yep that's Gundam for you. Newtypes are stupid and a terrible crutch. Despite all that I enjoy Gundam.

I finished the first 13 episodes of Galaxy Express. Most were great. Some absolute classic sci-fi here, the Ryuzu and fossil cloud two episodes are fantastic.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020, 15:59 
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that's the GUNDAM franchise for you; GREAT model kits, so-so Anime.

even so, GUNDAM 0083; STARDUST MEMORY is a rather fantastic, well-above-par entry in the franchise,
and probably just about the best place to start for anyone looking for more out of the franchise
than series such as WING tend to offer...
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020, 16:04 
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The best series are probably War in the Pocket and 08 MS Team.

The best/most GUNDAM is Zeta with Origin and Unicorn also being excellent.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020, 21:54 
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Some comments on Gundam 0079 the original TV series:

The movie trilogy made from the series are the “Gundam” that most fans know, not the actual series. I’ll get into that in a minute. The series wasn’t even on video until 1998 and then only in two $400 box sets. The movies by then were being sold as three $40 VHS releases (very cheap for Japan).

As for what made Gundam special, you have to go back to 1980 or so. At the time giant robot anime had been a thing for some time. Tetsujin 28 was the first big one. Mazinger Z (1972) moved that to a new level by making the hero pilot the robot from inside instead of just screaming things at it from two miles away like Giant Robo (1967) but Gundam was more or less the first show to break from “super robot” tradition in the following ways:

The MS aren’t magic god machines, they run off science and are mass produced by the hundreds in some cases.

The hero pilot is gifted in the extreme but he’s not the “one true pilot”, anyone who can operate an MS can pilot the Gundam.


Beyond that it’s a very detailed war story with an extremely interesting character, Char. Char and the birth of the Real Robot genre (Macross, Dougram, VOTOMS, Dragonar, uncountable by now...) were of the three things that made Gundam great.

When the show was first being aired the creators had all sorts of visions of what they wanted to do. In the real world though your anime is on TV because some toy company is paying to have it made. In this case there was one Gundam toy (the DX set) and it didn’t sell well. The sponsor demanded that the “robot of the week” system he used in order to sell the toy. (Real mech fans know that the “loser” robots were the cool ones.) The G Parts docking sequences which are boring reused animation in several episodes were made to satisfy the sponsor. The existence of the G Parts in the first place was the satisfy the sponsor. The creators did everything to work around the dumb toy nobody wanted but in the end the show was cancelled early.

By the time the show was cancelled the staff and fans had worked themselves into a frenzy energizing fan circles. Ratings were actually going up, but with the show cancelled and the ending brought forward it was impossible to “un cancel” it.

However there was a plan. The show, now more popular in reruns than it was originally, would be edited into a film with some new footage. Of course, there was deception here too. The director knew that the market for three films existed so he deliberately made a movie that was only 1/3 of the story and told the fans it was a trilogy at an event so the sponsor/film distributor had no choice but to green light the sequels.

The premier of the first movie was so huge...there’s actually a Wiki that describes that day I think. Ten thousand fans and no crowd control, in a way a major point in otaku history. The fans and creators beat the money men!

The movies...well, with no toy sponsor to satisfy this time some things changed. The G Parts were removed completely. (Sayla saves the day in a Core Booster instead.). Each movie had more new animation than the last. The finale of the 3rd movie is completely redone at what looks like easily 10 times the budget. New, extremely good, music is added. Unlike the show, which wasn’t even popular with ota, these movies were a huge hit. They still play them on holidays. They are, frankly, way better than the show.

As for why it was so popular, I hope to have explained that but there is another aspect and that is the headspace that post-bubble Japanese youth found themselves in in 1980. This was a somewhat lost generation in many ways, knowing that their parents and grandparents helped destroy Japan by starting an doomed war they were looking for new things and this show looked like that kind of thing. Extremely international it was a sort of window into the world. Everyone feels like Amuro sometimes, forced to do things you don’t want to do, sometimes things you know are wrong. Gundam has had a greater than %50 female fanbase from the beginning, so it’s fans are as much into the characters as the machines. This is Japan of course. The rest of the world got the show much much later if ever so the plastic kits are more popular than the books in most parts of the world. Tragic characters, often popular with youth...Gundam has so many. Matilda, Ryo, Ral, even Garma in a way...

When the show was cancelled and the plot shortened it changed things quite a bit. Originally Amuro was supposed to die and then Char would join the White Base crew in a red Gundam! This made it into the novelizations. Later on in the sequel series Z Gundam Char does sorta do that but under an assumed name. These kinds of Elseworlds things energize the fandom as well. For example, the movie Char’s Counterattack has several versions...the original High Streamer light novel, the movie, the novel version, and the manga version of the novel. In the movie you don’t get to see Amuro’s unborn child save his dad’s life from within the womb...

So you have to have lived it, which none of us here did because none of us were ages 6-12 in 1980 Japan. The themes it deals with are classic though and are the same themes Buddha dealt with. If you can see the tears of time you’ll know...or maybe you’ll never know. It’s a magic thing, Gundam.


Shows like 0080 and 0083 are more popular with westerners. 0083 is basically just Top Gun with even worse romantic elements but it does have cool characters and easily some of the best animation in Gundam before or since. I like it a lot. 0080 is almost totally removed from the normal drama of the show and stars kids and a loser Zeon pilot. It’s probably the best Gundam thing that isn’t a real Tomino Newtype death fest but it’s as heavy as anything. Excellent.

Neither 0080 or 0083 are like “real” Gundam though which is about Newtypes. Gundam is about Newtypes. The robots are cool but they’re really only there to keep the anime going in a similar way that Ferrari road cars keep the Ferrari F1 team winning. It’s literally about the evolution of humanity. Even a six year old knows war is f***ed. Even a child knows right from wrong and acts totally on this instinct. Six year olds don’t sign contracts, take oaths, salute flags, all that stuff. Only when people are older can they be handed a gun and trusted to kill someone they don’t know. Gundam is a war story, and anti-war story, but it rarely preaches because most people watching it are themselves anti-war. It’s the next level of that discussion, the Newtype. It asks humans who have free will to make the future NOW instead of waiting for human DNA to collectively move beyond our animal past, deliberately, before our actual DNA evolves. Newtypes are not a crutch, they are the crux!
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020, 18:29 
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I did think calling newtypes a "crutch" was a bit baffling thing to say, in the same way forper calling Koyaanisqatsi communist propaganda is baffling.

Also I'm pretty sure ZZ or one of the other spinoffs/sequels made the whole "don't wait for some newtype to show up and save the human race, save it yourself" message particularly explicit.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020, 19:15 
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takeshi666 wrote:
I did think calling newtypes a "crutch" was a bit baffling thing to say, in the same way forper calling Koyaanisqatsi communist propaganda is baffling.

Also I'm pretty sure ZZ or one of the other spinoffs/sequels made the whole "don't wait for some newtype to show up and save the human race, save it yourself" message particularly explicit.


But how are they not? It's basically used as an explanation or replacement for magic. It's something they frequently fall back on and I know I'm not alone among the Gundam fandom thinking newtype is a stupid thing.

I was basically saying what Zeta was saying earlier. Stuff like War in the Pocket isn't true Gundam.

In any case interesting post from Zeta about the history and different versions of things. Agree that Gundam is anti-war. I like Gundam a lot and I feel I should reiterate that. Having some minor gripes doesn't change that.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020, 21:59 
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Newtypes aren’t a crunch, they are the point of the whole story. The robots are the crutch, frankly, a financial one. They don’t “fall back on” Newtypes, they build the entire story around it. The story is there to be about Newtypes. When they were planning the end of Z Gundam they didn’t say “How are we going to bring all these people together and kill the bad guy? We need some magic kinda thing...”, they knew from the beginning that there would be a huge NT resonance wave that would render the hero braindead.

There’s some history to this as well, but I’ve already dropped so much of my own weird perspectives on things I hesitate to mention it...not having good references on hand...

But here I go...in the 1970s, when Gundam was born, the American space efforts were still very much in the minds of many people. You don’t hear a lot from astronauts about how nuclear weapons are necessary. It seems like going up there...kinda makes you a hippie in a tiny way. Seeing all of human existence at the same time in a space walk or out the window of a capsule changes a person. There is writing on this, I don’t have it at my fingertips at the moment.

My opinion is that this real life “awakening” of sorts was the basis for NT theory. I think people like Tomino were of the mind that going to space opens ones 3rd eye like acid or shrooms. If this happens to a single man, astronauts even, some of the most grounded hardcore skilled mofos ever, what would happen when the majority of humans live in space and see this stuff every day? Maybe they’d even develop ESP? I’m pretty sure this is how it came about, NT theory. Also in the 1970s a lot of normal people still believed in ESP, both USA and USSR had some degree of research into it. Books on the subject were selling well and it’s potential was thought to be nearly limitless by some, asteroid steering potential at least maybe...

In the US kids my age lived through Reagan’s FCC legalizing toy anime. In these crass vapid POS series like GI Joe and He Man there was always some sort of lesson tacked onto the end like “Two wrongs don’t make a right.” or “don’t lie”. Sometimes these seemed to not have anything to do with the show, sometimes they did but nothing could be more obvious than the fact that this was a legal obligation. Nobody gave a crap about any of it. I think it’s because of this that western anime fans aren’t initially open to the idea that someone might actually want to put content like that in the story, content that isn’t action sequences or whatever, to make the show about some concept other than events taking place, but sometimes they do. How else can you explain Arjuna? Kawamori has a lot of this in him, Tomino did as well when he created Gundam. It was the point of making the show.

I’ve met a lot of US fans that never get Gundam even though they like it just fine. Many times they are in the service themselves and obviously aren’t in the same place to wonder about these philosophical issues. These people really like 0083, Sentinel, MS 08th, because they have no NTs. They also tend to mostly like Macross since it’s easy to ignore the singing lady beating the aliens, love over hate, etc. I think they see that in the same way we see One to Grow On, Learning Is Half the Battle, etc. A dumb preachy thing that’s easily ignored. Keep in mind that in Japan there were almost no restrictions on children’s programming. They put the singing lady in there because they wanted the singing lady in there. That’s something that took me forever to understand. Not everyone hates Minmei, and really she is the point of Macross just as NTs are the point of Gundam.

Gundam -> Z Gundam -> ZZ Gundam -> Char’s Counterattack -> Unicorn -> Narrative

Those are the shows that fit into “real Gundam”; watch those. Squeeze Origin in there someplace and watch the first few SD Gundam OVAs once in a while to let your brain heal, they are extremely funny and you’ll only really laugh at the jokes when you’ve really cried about what the jokes are based on. (Ghost of Lala floating around with a beam saber stuck in her head.)

The other shows, the gaidens like 0080/0083 are usually pretty solid as well. The only really boring one is MS Igloo. Some of the stupider offshoots like Build Fighters can even be surprisingly good once in a while, but they aren’t the real deal. G is a masterpiece but %100 unrelated to any other Gundam in any way. Wing is just total f***ing garbage.
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