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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2019, 17:25 
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kt7000 wrote:
kt7000 wrote:
I was reading here that the only to watch an original cut of the MD Geist OVA https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=791&page=22 is to get the 1992 VHS release.

What I've always wanted to know is, are there any anime laserdisc's that contain exclusive features/content of any kind not available on DVD?


Does the exclusive content from the VHS version of MD Geist also exist on the LD release? M.D. Geist (1986) [78C59-6145]


It is the same for the original LD releases. The US LD is far inferior to the Jp disc by the way. Same goes for Roots Search. The master US Manga Corps had is awful compared to the Jp LDs. Columbia either screwed them over with inferior masters, or they were screwed up after the fact. I would think inferior masters.

The colours are way off, and the sound is muffled and unclear. Jp discs are crystal clear. You can search out digital copies of both from a guy called Macross2012. He hand typed the subs for both to create soft sub AVIs. These were incredibly high quality LD transfers. Damn shame it all went downhill 2 or 3 years later.

As for LD extras, the Sailor Moon seiyu extras are always touted by collectors. They were not on the DVDs. The TOEI "Memorial" discs also have exclusive content I think. The Sailor Moon, 999 and Devil Man ones do as far as I know.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2019, 18:32 
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I wonder if that's due to adding burned in subtitles??
It wouldn't surprise me too much if that was the case where they used sub par equipment to overlay the subs.

Thank you for posting macross 2012, I've been thinking about trying my hand at overlaying subs on some discs, but right now just don't have the time or money
for the extra on the hobby.
Too many house repairs :(
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2019, 16:49 
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I would honestly give CPM the benefit of the doubt here. I have US and JP copies of Crystal Triangle, and the quality is pretty much equal as far as I can tell. The CPM disc did have an even more messed up 3:2 pulldown than the JP disc though. I think that Columbia shafted them on masters because it is not just s**t picture but muffled sound too. I do not have a lot of CPM discs, but they seemed to be pretty good quality. I would still like Area 88 1-3 and Iczer 3 1-3 to go with my Jp discs. Oh, and Ultimate Teacher!
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2019, 17:40 
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But where would all these publishers get new bad masters of OVAs just to give CPM? Like four years after the only JP release. Where does bad sound come from?

It seems much more likely to me that CPM just had crap decks, overlay machines, techs, etc. While not as bad as Manga, almost everything CPM release was muddy. The sleeves and the discs. It’s all another generation removed from the JP original which doesn’t help but it also doesn’t have to look worse than a fan sub.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2019, 18:24 
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Do you forget all of the horrible DVD masters US companies were given in comparison to Jp releases? I sure as hell do. I just don't see how it could not be master related, the colour is completely off, there is different damage between the two versions and they both happen to be from the same company as well.

As I said, I only own a couple of CPM LDs, so I could be wrong. But I am also coming to this conclusion when comparing US/JP copies of a SONY property and the quality is pretty much the same. I have seen DVD recordings of the CPM Rumik World discs as well, and they look pretty much the same as the PIONEER disvs I have.

The worst CPM disc I have is Explorer Woman Ray, but TOSHIBA EMI never released a LD version so it was most likely made from a VHS master. There was a VHD version scheduled for release but I have no idea if it ever saw the light of day. I only have footage on one of the "anime magazine" VHD volumes. Every VHD I have on both formats looks rubbish compared the LD version so a VHD master would not have helped seeing as how the resolution was barely higher than VHS.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2019, 18:37 
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segasonic91 wrote:
The worst CPM disc I have is Explorer Woman Ray, but TOSHIBA EMI never released a LD version so it was most likely made from a VHS master.


This was my thought as well when watching it. ESPECIALLY the 2nd episode.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2019, 19:29 
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Depending on when it was released there may be no difference at all between a master for VHS/B/LD/VHD. I’d say most things were this way. Only in the 90s did you see companies making HD digital component masters for LD and that’s usually because they were thinking of DVD or some other higher than NTSC quality release (WVHS, DVD, HiVision, whatever). You do your telecine and you have a “master” video copy, be it Umatic, D1, D2, etc and you use that for everything. You don’t go and develop a new crappy master just because it’s being realized on a crappy format. When it comes to something like Bubblegum Crisis where the US release were sometimes less than a year from the JP one they basically just loan Animeigo a copy of the master. They aren’t going to go and rescan JACK, trust me. If you see scratches or real change marks they will be on every single version. The one they played on SciFi, the one they sold on VHS, the pirate version.

Now it’s normal to make a new scan because we’re still replacing those crappy transfers from the 80s. :)

And no I don’t remember how many bad anime DVDs there are. I know there were a ton. I have very few anime DVDs. I sorta skipped from LD to BR.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2019, 19:39 
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I am not saying Columbia rescanned the things and made them crappy, that's insane. I just think that whatever master they gave CPM was different to the original master from 1986. Could the subtitles really change the way the colour looks? Make red orange, orange yellow etc?

I have no clue how they did things in the 80's. I sure would love to know why quality of transfers jumped around so much though. Most early titles you can see used a proper LD master but there are plenty that like VHS as well. The biggest offender to me is ghosting. It ruined so many good looking LD transfers. Worst of all, they have no better version than the LD (Hi-Speed Jecy, Hikaruon, Mellowlink among others).

I also hate the change in the 90's where anime LDs became "digital" looking where the colour looked weird and nothing like the cel shots on the jacket. PIONEER had that look to just about everything they ever released. BV also did this with a lot of OVAs. 8 Man After is a good example, it looks awful compared to the shots on the cover. PIONEER also had excessive EE on top of that horrible colour. Yuck.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2019, 20:03 
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signofzeta wrote:

Macross: DYRL is censored (violence) on BR, possibly for all future releases.


Only the original "hybrid" BD/PS3 version is censored. The individual BD is the original version. The censorship was supposedly so the CERO rating stayed at 15 and was not given an 18. It was a stupid, idiotic thing to do as far as I am concerned. I could never bring myself to watch it. Between that stupid "new" opening and the censoring..... as a MASSIVE Macross fan it made my blood boil. I of course have the box set, but had it preordered from the begining before the stupid changes were made. So I was happy for the second PROPPER release. Shame about the "art" on the cover. Mikimoto and digital crap just do not go together. I miss his gorgeous watercolour paintings.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2019, 20:29 
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what exactly do you mean hybrid? those BDs with PS3 themes?
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2019, 20:30 
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You never watched it, yet it makes your blood boil. You’ve got a lot of passion. And I say this as a person who wrote hate mail to Carl Macek in Animerica.

What’s wrong with the (optional, AFAIK) beginning?
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2019, 20:31 
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xtempo wrote:
what exactly do you mean hybrid? those BDs with PS3 themes?


There is a very big minigame on the BR. Basically the PSP series of Macross games retooled for PS3 (but not by much).
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2019, 00:45 
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signofzeta wrote:
You never watched it, yet it makes your blood boil. You’ve got a lot of passion. And I say this as a person who wrote hate mail to Carl Macek in Animerica.

What’s wrong with the (optional, AFAIK) beginning?


Haha, I guess you could say that. I started watching it but turned it off halfway through or less. I never even played the PS3 game. I sealed the box back up and it has sat that way ever since. I have thought about buying a second copy now just so I can look at the extras that came with though.

The optional begining just felt so damn tacky and un-needed. Also, Kawamori has no right to mess with a masterpiece he didn't create in my opinion. The great man that directed the movie is no longer with us and to me it felt like it was insulting his work. I know he alone was not responsible, but I am sure you know what I mean.

It was a nice transfer, less DNR than the 2nd release too so it is even more of a shame it was messed up first time around. DNR'ing every scrap of grain out of BDs these days is another thing that pisses me off. Japanese studios just suck these days. The early BDs I have with full grain look so beautiful, I wish everything had stayed that way. It is film damn it, it needs grain! Even fox learnt from their mistake with Predator. The 4K BD looks gorgeous, and it has GRAIN! Unlike the smeared, DNR'ed mess on the BD included with it. I only owned the first BD release. No way was I ever buying that trash. It is a damned shame that TOEI did something similar to the 999 movies because if history is any indication, it will be the one and only release on BD. Maybe a 4K? But I doubt it. They couldn't even be arsed to give Sailor Moon a proper HD scan. TOEI sure as hell are not leading the BD anime revolution.

But back to the subject of LD on features, I know that IDEON on LD is the only way to see the original broadcast version. I remember reading a Japanese article about the BD release, they mentioned that some scenes were altered on BD, just as they had been on DVD. They changed scenes with a strobe light affect. The article showed a comparison from LD to DVD/BR. Small change I know, but hey, still a change.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2019, 01:30 
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Birth (1984) [SBLL-25] has a very good short Making Of segment that covers everything from music recording to cel painting. Going by running times it doesn’t seem like the original Birth (1984) [W68L-1006] had it. I don’t know if it’s on any of the DVDs since those are %#* to find now. I rented the US one from Netflix ages ago but I can’t remember if it had the short. It’s really good anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2019, 02:57 
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segasonic91 wrote:

The optional begining just felt so damn tacky and un-needed. Also, Kawamori has no right to mess with a masterpiece he didn't create in my opinion. The great man that directed the movie is no longer with us and to me it felt like it was insulting his work. I know he alone was not responsible, but I am sure you know what I mean.


Agree! I got banned from Macrossworld for my hate for Kawamori and what he has done to the Franchise. They're all like "oooh, he's the hoary froating head (they still think that joke is funny over there), you can't insult him!"To me the only true canon is the Big West Macross II/PC Engine one. Until there's a sequel to those I'm done with Macross. I was done with Kawamori when I first started seeing Macross 7 fansubs in '95. Macross was NEVER Kawamori, it was a unique team of ridiculously talented, creative and hardworking maniacs, of which Kawamori was one.

Quote:
It was a nice transfer, less DNR than the 2nd release too so it is even more of a shame it was messed up first time around. DNR'ing every scrap of grain out of BDs these days is another thing that pisses me off.


Did you get the HD Remaster DVD set of DYRL? that came out in like '07? I pre-ordered that on my meagre English teacher salary. The remaster has waaaay too much grain imo, it looks like snow. I still use the Perfect Collection CAV LD set (my first ever LD) as a reference.

Anyway what's your opinion on the DVD HD Remaster if you've seen it? Too much grain for you?

Quote:
But back to the subject of LD on features, I know that IDEON on LD is the only way to see the original broadcast version. I remember reading a Japanese article about the BD release, they mentioned that some scenes were altered on BD, just as they had been on DVD. They changed scenes with a strobe light affect. The article showed a comparison from LD to DVD/BR. Small change I know, but hey, still a change.


Good info. Yeah after seeing the highly satisfying Zambot 3 on LD I'll be choosing LD for Ideon as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2019, 19:42 
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forper wrote:

Agree! I got banned from Macrossworld for my hate for Kawamori and what he has done to the Franchise. They're all like "oooh, he's the hoary froating head (they still think that joke is funny over there), you can't insult him!"To me the only true canon is the Big West Macross II/PC Engine one. Until there's a sequel to those I'm done with Macross. I was done with Kawamori when I first started seeing Macross 7 fansubs in '95. Macross was NEVER Kawamori, it was a unique team of ridiculously talented, creative and hardworking maniacs, of which Kawamori was one.


Haha! Yes! I am so glad I am not the only one that thinks this way! Although, I have to admit to liking 7, I love the soundtrack CDs especially. It was nonesense and nothing of the original series was there but it was fun. Oh nothing of the original except turning DYRL? into being a MOVIE made about the events of the war! That was so dumb to me. This is now cannon!

Quote:
Did you get the HD Remaster DVD set of DYRL? that came out in like '07? I pre-ordered that on my meagre English teacher salary. The remaster has waaaay too much grain imo, it looks like snow. I still use the Perfect Collection CAV LD set (my first ever LD) as a reference.

Anyway what's your opinion on the DVD HD Remaster if you've seen it? Too much grain for you?


Of course! This my favourite series and movie ever. I have the original and HD version on DVD. I didn't mind the grain actually. The movie despite being a big budget blockbuster was apparently made with some pretty low grade film, so I guess it can't be helped. I prefer a proper HD scan of 35mm or 16mm film, grain and all over the horrible practise of DNR'ing everything these days. It has made me avoid many BDs already. Wicked City is one of tye newest victims. The DVD remaster had the grain intact, the BD is almost bare. They keep doing this because of modern digital crap and I am really getting sick of it.

Oh by the way, the CAV box was one of my first LDs too! I ordered the first volume of Macross, Macross 7 vol.3 and what was supposed to be MK Rayearth Vol.1 (they sent the first volume of series 2, I had played the game on my Saturn so many times since 1995 and was looking forward to seeing it too, so I was bummed) from the US which I probably got before DYRL? I ordered that from a store in Sydney city that I used to buy all my anime from. Cost me $295 o_O That was a hell of a lot of money for my barely 20 year old self in 1998. I paid $495 for the Evangelion movie box not long after, too. That shop was a huge rip off....



Quote:
Good info. Yeah after seeing the highly satisfying Zambot 3 on LD I'll be choosing LD for Ideon as well.


The good thing about classic mech anime on LD is that it is dirt cheap for the most part. It's that damn shipping that kills it for us >_< Plus you get gorgeous painted illustrations on most of them. Votoms is a big one for this, as is IDEON actually. I bought a bunch of box sets last year and they were stupidly cheap. Gundam/Z/ZZ, Dunbine, Dougram, Votoms, Vifam, Dancougar, Layzner, Sailor Moon/R/S/SS/Stars, Boku no Mama wa 4nensei, Gamba no Bouken, Queen Millennia (much easier to understand than the ultra muffled DVDs, still has that trade mark TOEI sound "quality" but they went overboard with the noise reduction on tye DVDs and made it worse), Harlock, Creamy Mami, Magical Emi, God Mars.... I love LDs. I just bought the LUPIN tv boxes too. I guess I can look forward to them in 3 months!

Yes I would rather the beautiful component DVD masters, but they are too goddamned expensive even 10-15 years after release. The Emotion the Best range was a god send! I wish more releases had followed or has just stayed on the market.

Another somewhat "extra on LD" I would consider would be the 999 movies. Especially the Galaxy box distributed by BV with both movies. The open matte versions are so superior to the chopped off too and bottom 16:9 versions. I still remember the comparison pictures when the DVDs originally came out. I owned the subtitled VIZ VHS releases, so I had them in 4:3 mode, the DVDs just never looked right. I won't even mention the disgusting BDs. Those movies were not made for 16:9 like most TOEI movies. I am not sure if the loss of information is as bad on say, the Sailor Moon LDs. I have the Jp box set and the Pioneer DVDs released in the US but never cared enough to check.

Also, speaking of Macross, I found the HD remaster DVDs to be zoomed in to hide the rough cuts between shots. The LDs are not like that. I have the BD box as well but never opened it.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2019, 01:50 
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segasonic91 wrote:
Haha! Yes! I am so glad I am not the only one that thinks this way! Although, I have to admit to liking 7, I love the soundtrack CDs especially. It was nonesense and nothing of the original series was there but it was fun. Oh nothing of the original except turning DYRL? into being a MOVIE made about the events of the war! That was so dumb to me. This is now cannon!


Yep, the music and the design for Mylene is all I took away. The last couple of eps actually touch on the true epic Macross story, but too little too late, waaay too many annoying characters and bad mecha designs, and waaaaay too little (absolutely no) well animated dogfights. I disregard it.

Quote:
That shop was a huge rip off....


Cartoon Gallery in QVB?

Quote:
Vifam,


Did you find this in an actual box or individual discs, I can't seem to find a box.

But yeah I have about half the key gritty real robot shows from the '80s that I want, more will come. The key is finding a small proxy that does sea mail AND doesn't charge GST.

Quote:
Yes I would rather the beautiful component DVD masters


What are these?

Quote:
Also, speaking of Macross, I found the HD remaster DVDs to be zoomed in to hide the rough cuts between shots. The LDs are not like that. I have the BD box as well but never opened it.


Oh that's bad, I didn't notice. Even more glad I have the LD set, as advertised it's "perfect" to me.

The DVD set is really nice I think for the extras disc with the Skylark TV ads and the really well done Skylark giveaway repros. I went to one a Saitama suburban Skylark after I got the box set, it was in original '80s decor and
I pretended it was the Summer of '84 haha
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2019, 18:22 
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forper wrote:

Quote:
Cartoon Gallery in QVB?.


That's the one! I used to go into Sydney at least 2 times a week, for anime and for Saturn games. As well as my latest Saturn Fan I bought once a fortnight from a Jp book store.

Quote:
Vifam,


Quote:
Did you find this in an actual box or individual discs, I can't seem to find a box.


Boxes. I do not think they were ever released individually. Only the OVAs which had 2 releases. Original was CAV, second was CLV. There are 2 boxes for the TV series and they are common

Quote:
But yeah I have about half the key gritty real robot shows from the '80s that I want, more will come. The key is finding a small proxy that does sea mail AND doesn't charge GST.


Ugh, don't get me started on that! If you know of a proxy that does that, please let me know! I buy most of my LD boxes and other LDs directly from a store and ship them to a proxy. They charge GST, but I am able to change the value to say 100yen. Still get charged on the postage though which is always high with LDs, SAL or not!

Quote:
Yes I would rather the beautiful component DVD masters


Quote:
What are these?


Most of these shows have a really nice new component master for DVD, sometimes HD master. They of course look much better than the LDs for this reason. I did manage to buy some of the "Emotion the BEST" releases from BV as well as the G-SELECTION Gundam re-releases. They also released cheap(er) boxes of Votoms and Dougram which I managed to buy as well. They both look GORGEOUS on DVD! Vifam is a composite master, most likely the LD masters used for the box sets. As is Dragonar which I also have on LD and DVD. But the LD masters were so good, the DVDs still look great. It is really only a very small amount of rainbowing and dot crawl on the edge of the screen which gives it away.

Problem with the cheap Vifam release on DVD is that it did not include the OVAs, only way to get them is the original DVD box which is stupidly expensive to this day. I have no idea if the original box was a component master or not, but I highly doubt. All the "the BEST" releases used existing DVD masters. Worst one I bought was Outlaw Star which was the s****y old LD masters rather than the HD master. They did that with a couple of those cheap releases, but most of them are good. All of the LDs I have mentioned that I own are exceptionally high quality, so it does not matter which you go for in the end. The BV boxes were always amazing as was TAKI, ToEMI and VAP.
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2019, 00:36 
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One title I thought about last night that greatly differs between LD and DVD is Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

I have the entire series on DVD and it has really ugly, modern cg anime spliced into the original animation. It is incredibly jarring and just looks so out of place. The beautiful, detailed drawings of the cel animation become flat, undetailed mess with horrible dull cg colouring. If ever there was something to show how superior cel animation was to the computer rubbish, it is this series.

The DVDs also have "frozen grain". What a stupid, horrible practise!
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 Post subject: Re: Do Certain Anime LD's contain exclusive Features & Conte
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2019, 06:55 
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Sorry I didn't see your replies nested inside mine.

segasonic91 wrote:

Boxes. I do not think they were ever released individually. Only the OVAs which had 2 releases. Original was CAV, second was CLV. There are 2 boxes for the TV series and they are common



Oh okay. So Vifam 13 has a box too? There's one I can't find.

Quote:
Ugh, don't get me started on that! If you know of a proxy that does that, please let me know! I buy most of my LD boxes and other LDs directly from a store and ship them to a proxy. They charge GST, but I am able to change the value to say 100yen. Still get charged on the postage though which is always high with LDs, SAL or not!


Japonica Market was the ultimate for this but they stopped doing SAL. I think I know the proxy you use. I stupidly used Buyee on a big order I recently did. Never again. They are the worst.
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