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 Post subject: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 17:07 
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Hi!

I've come across several US tapes over the years with anime, but all of them are dubbed into English. Have I just been unlucky, or do you guys actually dub everything? There are a few older anime I'd like to watch, and easiest to get on US tapes. Don't like the fact they're dubbed, though. Have at least avoided buying, in fear of dubs.

I'm talking about official releases. I know bootleg VHS tapes often have superimposed fan-made subtitles.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 17:08 
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No, there are many subtitled tapes as well.
Pioneer did dual releases, and there are some titles only available dubbed, but in the VHS era most operations were on a small enough budget that dubbing was impracticable, so there are plenty of sub-only VHS.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 18:36 
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there are other factors since Sol Bianca volume 2 was never dubbed by ADV but only volume 1 was.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 19:17 
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Subtitled Anime in the U.S. was a Niche within a Niche, usually appealing exclusively to the hardcore purist.

the American Home Video market has always been notoriously intolerant
of any foreign material not dubbed in English, and Anime was no exception.
as such, a far smaller number of Subbed variants of any given U.S. Anime release were produced and marketed.

despite Dubbed Anime being far more expensive to produce, economies of scale had militated
that the Subbed editions of any given offering were priced around half again to 2x the price of their dubbed equivalents...
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 19:43 
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The "fan" oriented market didn't dub much of anything until the early 90s when things went big time. After Ranma and Ghost in the Shell quality dubs could actually pay for themselves...which was the logic of charging %50 *more* for subtitled VHS than the dub. That's almost as crazy as paying more to ruin/dub a show that it costs to license the show from the company that made it in the first place. When US anime fandom on college campuses was completely overwhelmed and crushed by mall otaku, this was the sort of nuttiness than passed for logic. ADV turned into a company that would usually release both a sub and a dub VHS, but actually finding anything but the dub in a store was rare. The "dubs pay the bills" mentality lasted for what seemed like forever, but now it, and several companies that represented it, like ADV, are long gone.

The exception was Streamline who always dubbed everything and rare released anything subtitled. Only when they started releasing LDs did we get a JP track, and even then they refused to subtitle it.

All this BS was the reason why DVD was such a nice thing. Much wider support in the US than LD and you don't have to worry (much) about getting stuck with a mono language dubbed anime DVD.

Now we are back to 1992 again in some ways. The US market has evaporated mostly and we're back to subtitled only releases.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 20:19 
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Okay, I see. I'm used to having material subtitled. The only stuff that is dubbed here in Norway are media intended for children who can't read. Heck, I even remember growing up watching some cartoons in English or Spanish. Didn't understand a thing, but that's what were available. Guess the US marked is spoiled with having things in English. Just puzzled by that anime intended for adults is also dubbed.

I might just have to look harder for those releases that are subtitled. At least stay clear of Streamline releases.

Are the old bootleg subtitled tapes easy to obtain? Might be an alternative.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 20:40 
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I'm pretty sure there is a subtitled VHS of Akira, but most Streamline are dubbed only. It's a bummer because they picked such great properties and charged so little, but they never did anything that would devalue the JP LD, you'd still want that every time.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 22:15 
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I've not seen a subtitle version of Akira unless Pioneer/Genenon did in the later years. I am pretty sure all streamline is dubbed only for American audiences who know knowing about the title or anime.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2015, 22:29 
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I think it's fair to say that there were a lot of sub-only titles, but the volume of each individual dubbed tape was larger. In any case, they are pretty much all clearly labelled, so if you must buy VHS, you don't have to buy a pig in a poke.

samaron wrote:
Okay, I see. I'm used to having material subtitled. The only stuff that is dubbed here in Norway are media intended for children who can't read. Heck, I even remember growing up watching some cartoons in English or Spanish. Didn't understand a thing, but that's what were available. Guess the US marked is spoiled with having things in English. Just puzzled by that anime intended for adults is also dubbed.

So much of the world's media content is produced in America, & Americans are so unaccustomed to encountering any language other than English in daily life, that subtitled foreign-language media is considered jarring, & generally unbroadcastable or plain unmarketable. Also there is a strong anti-intellectual current in American society, and people who are "ostentatiously" literate are considered "snobs".
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 00:05 
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xtempo wrote:
I've not seen a subtitle version of Akira unless Pioneer/Genenon did in the later years. I am pretty sure all streamline is dubbed only for American audiences who know knowing about the title or anime.

No, Streamline/Orion did release a subtitled version of Akira . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 01:12 
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Yeah, when you could get the dub in EP for $7.99 they released a subbed tape for $35.

Streamline no longer exists either, btw.

In the defense of America: it's only anime we dub. Well, Das Boot and Mad Max, sure, but the only people who actually expect brand new stuff to be dubbed into English for them are anime fans. They are there b**ching on the Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans Youtube channel right now about how they want a dub. Of a free show. This is the natural consequence of dumping 30 years of backdated anime during the DVD generation for $0.15 an episode. They've become so used to getting so much stuff for almost nothing that you're never going to get any real money out of them now. Too late.

This is where I miss the DIY hardcore OG fans from back in the day. Kids from my generation would rarely argue for taking money from a show's budget to re-record brand new dialogue, but the overly consumptive 21st century fan has rarely created anything in his life and lacks this perspective. We were trying like hell to ESCAPE dubs after having nothing but them during the TV generation, unless you lived in Hawaii, but that was a different time.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 03:19 
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A funny thing about anime dubbing is the fact that the English voice actors make up many of the featured guests at anime conventions now. Back in the day cons got more creators as guests of honor and directors and the like. Cool stuff. For some reason, the younger generation likes voice actors...not to slam what a VA does, but who really cares to see these people who had nothing to do with the original production? This same audience also demands dubs; I personally prefer the original language and Japanese VAs like madman Shigeru Chiba (Oshii's man from UY, Patlabor, Red Spectacles) really put everything into their work. I do enjoy some guilty pleasure dubs like the Streamline Akira ("men, we're going to the Olympics!" :lol:).

Cons sounded a lot more interesting in the 90's (never had to chance to go to one, as I live in the middle of nowhere)
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 07:18 
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I remember the first time I saw someone I knew getting an autograph from an American anime voice actor. It totally perplexed me, but it was obviously a major crossroads in US fandom. Part of what makes anime special is the way they record the voices, usually as many cast as possible in the same room, following an animatic or maybe just a line on a screen. Here in the US you can buy a show on DVD where the English language voice actor has never met a single person involved with the original production, maybe not even a member of the US cast, and maybe wasn't even born yet when it was originally released. Also, speaking in a language that doesn't match the signs on the shops...but still with the vocals mixed way the hell up front like they do in Japan, which just makes the English thing even more annoying.

Maybe in the next decade or two dubbing will finally be in the crap can of tacky ideas like colorizing Betty Boop cartoons and those stupid motorized seatbelts on 90s Ford Escorts.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 11:03 
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signofzeta wrote:
...Maybe in the next decade or two dubbing will finally be in the crap can of tacky ideas like colorizing Betty Boop cartoons and those stupid motorized seatbelts on 90s Ford Escorts.


I don't know the market difference with these cars, but that sounds just too luxurious for an Escort. The ones we got were really on the bottom when it came to quality. No rust protection, seriously low quality in every aspect, broke down every second week. Certainly no extra equipment like power windows, power steering etc. Ford is synonymous with something that needs constant repair here in Norway (and the rest of Europe). A motorized seatbelt were something our Escorts never got. If we had, it would be a cherry on a turd. :shock:

But back to the topic... Since dubbing is quite dominant in the US marked, especially in the VHS era. How easy are those bootleg fan-subtitled tapes to come by?
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 14:39 
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elahrairrah wrote:
xtempo wrote:
I've not seen a subtitle version of Akira unless Pioneer/Genenon did in the later years. I am pretty sure all streamline is dubbed only for American audiences who know knowing about the title or anime.

No, Streamline/Orion did release a subtitled version of Akira . . .

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I'll have get that.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 18:30 
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samaron wrote:
But back to the topic... Since dubbing is quite dominant in the US marked, especially in the VHS era. How easy are those bootleg fan-subtitled tapes to come by?

It would be easier to buy the Japanese LDs, get hold of the old subtitle scripts & appropriate equipment, & make your own.

In any case, there were a lot more subtitled than dubbed releases, even though the number of copies produced was typically quite a bit smaller for subbed tapes. And you certainly can identify which is which from photos of the cases.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 19:59 
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I do use genlock and Japanese LDs. Works really well, and dirt cheap LDs. There have been some cases where there aren't any subtitle files available in the archive you have. Unfortunately I can't read or speak Japanese well enough to translate and make my own files. If I were, I wouldn't need to translate it in the first place. Especially the older obscure stuff isn't available on torrent sites either, or missing subtitles. Have in those cases seen that it did exist VHS tapes released in the US, which is a good number two. Can't remember what it was, but not the biggest loss in the world I guess.

Got into watching anime in an effort to try and learn some language. It is very abundant, a vast number of titles produced over the years. Found out it is also very entertaining to watch. Maybe I just have to get the LDs and watch them once my vocabulary and grammar is good enough.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2015, 23:24 
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samaron wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
...Maybe in the next decade or two dubbing will finally be in the crap can of tacky ideas like colorizing Betty Boop cartoons and those stupid motorized seatbelts on 90s Ford Escorts.


I don't know the market difference with these cars, but that sounds just too luxurious for an Escort. The ones we got were really on the bottom when it came to quality. No rust protection, seriously low quality in every aspect, broke down every second week. Certainly no extra equipment like power windows, power steering etc. Ford is synonymous with something that needs constant repair here in Norway (and the rest of Europe). A motorized seatbelt were something our Escorts never got. If we had, it would be a cherry on a turd. :shock:

But back to the topic... Since dubbing is quite dominant in the US marked, especially in the VHS era. How easy are those bootleg fan-subtitled tapes to come by?


Most stuff that was fan subbed eventually got licensed for US DVD during the US anime bubble. The stuff that didn't was often eventually redone by digital/internet fan subbers. The stuff that didn't get that treatment was still often at least digitized from the VHS fansub. The only subtitled version of Run Melos I know of is this way. Rather blurry since it was sourced from a mediocre LD, subbed onto SVHS, then (assuming the SVHS master was used and not a further degraded mass produced copy) it was captured via a mediocre device, it's a shame since this is one of the best anime of all time, IMO. Extremely moving.

Regarding Escorts: whole Europe had Escorts from the late 60s, the US didn't get one until the 80s. It was suposed to be a "world car" but too much politicking between Ford and Ford of Europe eventually resulted in to completely different and totally new front wheel drive four cylinder cars price slightly above the Fiesta and named the Ford Escort. Car companies are DUMB.

Anyway, around 1990 or so the US government started to mandate a "supplemental restraint system". This was a designation meant to include air bags but, since the car companies have powerful lobbies, somehow got twisted into including a really really REALLY stupid innovation; the motorized seat belt. The exact logic of these seems to have been lost to the mists of time.

Cars such as the 2nd generation US Escort (which is really a Mazda 323 with a lame engine in it because the Big 3 mentality towards practical cars back then was one of pure contempt and disgust) and the Honda Civic had motorized shoulder belts. I guess "suplimental" included anything that was out of the drivers hands. Actual airbags were probably really expensive back then and in short supply given the recent total adoption of the technology, so the cheap cars didn't get them and got away with it legally with this dumb seatbelt thing.

What they are: when the key is in Run and the door is shut, front occupants have the shoulder belt automatically move into place. When you get into the car the top mount of the belt is near the dash, it then moves along a track in the roof towards the back and eventually stops somewhere near where the top mounting point for a shoulder belt should be. Apparently this helps...something?

The flaws were many and obvious. First off, you still have to attach the lower belt using the exact same amount of effort as you'd use to do the entire thing if it were just a normal car. If you don't attach the lower belt and run just with the upper you're going to be in a really bad way in any accident, submarine city.

Secondly, the things aren't reliable. For a Ford part they are actually pretty sturdy since they take probably a decade to fail on average, but when they fail you now have to fix this dumb expensive motored thing that does you zero good because if it gets stuck forward you now have no shoulder belt at all. Also, it's really easy to hit your head on the upper attaching point since its in a stupid spot. I've bonked my head on a couple of them as they were moving. It kills!

None of these stupid things are being made today, nobody would buy them even if they were legal because safety is now a top three concern for car buyers. Airbags sell.

One nice thing about this stupid time was that this was also the year the Mazda MX-5 "Miata" came out. Because it had no roof the dumb automated seatbelt thing was impossible. Mazda had no choice to install an actual airbag in their first "SRS" roadster. As a huge fan of the early Miata I feel I dodged a bullet. There was an excellent opportunity to ruin that car too but since it was a roadster, a cheap car but still a luxury, the budget was there for the real airbag.

All over early Miatas lack the airbag and have a standard looking Momo thing with a plastic born button cover to protect your skull in an accident.

The extra stupid thing about the motorized belts was that they didn't save you any effort since you still needed to attach the belt manually...just like in a car with an air bag. You get a dumb legally mandated gadget that is far worse in every single way than the standard seatbelt it replaced, and what you don't get is an airbag. Total horse hockey.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2015, 08:32 
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Yeah, I've seen there are a lot of DVDs too, but they demand in many cases just ridiculous prices. Especially the titles that probably never will get a re-release. Which is why I got the Urusei Yatsura LD box set... With shipping from Japan, it was still cheaper than the US DVDs. At least I get to own it on a physical format.

Did a quick search on eBay and a Run Melos VHS from Odyssey Anime popped up. Worth getting, then? Could probably do a better job of digitizing of it, I do use a high-end player, expensive capturing equipment and avisynth. Found that it gives the best results. :)

Really interesting with the Escorts... Seems the US have a different set of rules when it comes to safety in cars. Did some searching now, and it seems especially emissions is different. I my self drive daily an old Volvo 740 Turbo Intercooler. No airbags, but it comes with power steering as standard. The best thing is that since it is an 86-model, I don't need to worry about emissions. No catalytic converter, EGR or any of the expensive and restrictive systems. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2015, 23:57 
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Things are pretty much the same now but that's a new thing. An 80s car with no catylist for example, completely unheard of in the US. We started getting them in the early 70s.
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