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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 00:01 
Jedi Knight
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Btw, I don't know about that tape of Melos. The auction is crooked as hell, repeatedly using words like "original" to describe something that is %100 bootleg.

The LD is less than $10. If you have the means (genloc, language skills, whatever) you could just go that route. I feel that even missing a lot of the dialogue the power of the story comes through.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 04:00 
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signofzeta wrote:
I remember the first time I saw someone I knew getting an autograph from an American anime voice actor. It totally perplexed me, but it was obviously a major crossroads in US fandom. Part of what makes anime special is the way they record the voices, usually as many cast as possible in the same room, following an animatic or maybe just a line on a screen. Here in the US you can buy a show on DVD where the English language voice actor has never met a single person involved with the original production, maybe not even a member of the US cast, and maybe wasn't even born yet when it was originally released. Also, speaking in a language that doesn't match the signs on the shops...but still with the vocals mixed way the hell up front like they do in Japan, which just makes the English thing even more annoying.

Maybe in the next decade or two dubbing will finally be in the crap can of tacky ideas like colorizing Betty Boop cartoons and those stupid motorized seatbelts on 90s Ford Escorts.


Pretty old article but the point are still relevant today.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/dub-track/2003-04-29

You seem to think Japanese actors are superior no matter what, that's a pretty bold and naive statement.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 05:27 
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torrin wrote:
You seem to think Japanese actors are superior no matter what, that's a pretty bold and naive statement.

Rather than something angry or dismissive, I'm just going to say this :

The Japanese voice track is an integral part of the original production.

For virtually any anime released during the LaserDisc era, an English-language voice track was not part of the original production, and in most cases was not even contemplated by the original producers, or by anyone until years after the original release.

If you don't understand why that ends the discussion so far as I am concerned, that's not my problem anymore.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 08:01 
Jedi Knight
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Yeah, that.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 09:41 
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signofzeta wrote:
Btw, I don't know about that tape of Melos. The auction is crooked as hell, repeatedly using words like "original" to describe something that is %100 bootleg.

The LD is less than $10. If you have the means (genloc, language skills, whatever) you could just go that route. I feel that even missing a lot of the dialogue the power of the story comes through.


Well, it is an original bootleg, lol. I remember some popular western books here in Norway (Morgan Kane series) had some special merchandise sold at some point. Cufflinks to be exact. They actually said "authentic copies". :lol:

I'll look up that laserdisc and skip the VHS. Was a bit pricey too, considering it is a bootleg. I bought the Oh My Goddess OVA VHS tapes from Japan in mint condition and each tape included extras. The price? 500 yen, which is like 3-4 USD or something. No subtitles, though. I'd say that Run Melos tape shouldn't be worth more than home recorded movies from TV broadcasts onto tapes. It is bootleg, after all.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 15:10 
Jedi Knight
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Maybe there is a collectors scene for distributor copies of 90s VHS fansubs. I've never heard of such a thing though.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 22:10 
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Here's a seller with some collectible fansubs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201459772160 Way too optimistic about that price. It's interesting to see how some fansubers, like the one that made these tapes, went all out with custom tapes with their name and unique color. I've seen big fansub collections given away for the price of shipping, so assembling a collection would not be that hard. I think it would be interesting to collect some because the phenomena intersects with my interest in what the anime scene was like back in the 90's (and earlier) when this stuff was still underground. All the quirky rules for tape trading and whatnot, and details like Amiga genlocks and the quirks of VHS production, are such ancient history and fascinating.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2015, 23:56 
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Indeed. I'm very interested in the demoscene (and computer scene stuff in general), and this fansub stuff is not that different it seems in many ways. Would be really cool to have a couple of tapes in my collection. Also take some notes to go with them how it was done, distributed and all that. This type of stuff becomes forgotten really quick. I certainly will not pay 100 bucks for some bootleg tapes, lol. Got like 5 bootleg VHS tapes for free, and they have decent copied covers, labels and good picture quality in general. Those anime tapes doesn't even have a proper hard plastic cover that genuine pre-recorded VHS tapes came with. Just cheap slipcases like the blank tapes had that you bought.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 02:11 
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Fansub tapes were just that, fan-made. There was no attempt to make them "commercial" ; if anything, the opposite. Some were recorded on tapes mailed to the distributor, some were sold for the cost of materials, but quite generally they came with a little note saying "this is a free fan-made product & if you paid for it you have been ripped off".
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 02:32 
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publius wrote:
torrin wrote:
You seem to think Japanese actors are superior no matter what, that's a pretty bold and naive statement.

Rather than something angry or dismissive, I'm just going to say this :

The Japanese voice track is an integral part of the original production.

For virtually any anime released during the LaserDisc era, an English-language voice track was not part of the original production, and in most cases was not even contemplated by the original producers, or by anyone until years after the original release.

If you don't understand why that ends the discussion so far as I am concerned, that's not my problem anymore.


That's quite true but not always the case. Anyway I was taking aim at the poster's original hope that dubbing would cease to exist 'in a decade or two'. It's quite a ludicrous statement. Dub acting has come a very far way and most agree there are times when English performance sometimes eclipses the Japanese. But it really comes down to preference and opinion of the watcher, which is better which is the point I am trying to make. After all anime is for entertainment so why not watch it whichever way gives you the most. Now if you don't understand that it's not my problem.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 02:54 
Jedi Knight
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Dubbing anime only happens in the US, to some extent the UK, and it's boom years are clearly over with many shows not even addressing the issue in 2015. I do think it will be dead in 20 years, probably six. Probably anime will be unrecognizable by then so I doubt it matters, but I see it being a fad, like $40 LDs. Nothing lasts forever.

Some people like dubs. Some people like watching the home shopping channel in 4:3 stretched across a 16:9 display. Some people like Buffalo Wings and Dodge Ram pickups. That's all true, but it's also true that all that stuff strait up sucks.

"Original" is that, and there is no substitute. Quality, or which is "better"...those aren't the argument. There are loads of English dubs that are much better than the JP original, many use 5.1 when the originals were mono or stereo. It doesn't matter. There are literally MILLIONS of people who can play drums way better than Ringo Star, but nobody want's Questlove inserted into The White Album. It would stuck out like a sore thumb, or worse, like someone saying "Ranma, dude, come on."
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 05:12 
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I too am skeptical of the future for dubbing. Dubbing probably reached it's peak with efforts like Cowboy Bebop, which had a rather western sci-fi setting in the first place along with great English dub actors. Bebop was in the right place and time too, with it's neverending broadcast on Cartoon Network. That kind of a market for dubs has become a thing of the past as ancient as Voltron or Robotech though, and savy kids on the net will go someplace like Crunchyroll and watch subs.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 17:30 
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harlock wrote:
Here's a seller with some collectible fansubs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201459772160 Way too optimistic about that price. It's interesting to see how some fansubers, like the one that made these tapes, went all out with custom tapes with their name and unique color. I've seen big fansub collections given away for the price of shipping, so assembling a collection would not be that hard. I think it would be interesting to collect some because the phenomena intersects with my interest in what the anime scene was like back in the 90's (and earlier) when this stuff was still underground. All the quirky rules for tape trading and whatnot, and details like Amiga genlocks and the quirks of VHS production, are such ancient history and fascinating.



i wonder how many of them could afford high-end VCRs and LDPs to produce their product with?

harlock wrote:
Cowboy Bebop was in the right place and time too, with it's neverending broadcast on Cartoon Network.
That kind of a market for dubs has become a thing of the past as ancient as Voltron or Robotech though,
and savvy kids on the net will go someplace like Crunchyroll and watch subs.


indeed, just as surely as Video Killed the Radio Star, Crunchyroll and it's like have killed the Western Anime home video market.

but, then again, the kind of material that evidently sells Anime Blu-rays in Japan these days
seems specifically tailored to a fairly narrow audience,
- one that Japan itself seems rather abundant in, whilst the balance of the world's nations are rather deficient of -
a very specific sort of audience that the likes of which seem especially uncommon in the western hemisphere,
where the majority of the male human populace near uniformly seem somehow singularly insecure about public perceptions of their "Manhood" in any degree...
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 21:51 
Jedi Knight
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The US anime home video market was already in seriously bad shape by the time Crunchyroll came about. It didn't kill anything.

What really killed off the anime scene was the outright DUMPING of product on the market in the 2000s. If you aren't paying, as an anime fan, less than %1 in some cases what the Japan side is paying, you are actually a contributing member of the fandom. You're just leaching. You're leaching it %100 legally, but you're still leaching. More money is spend on a high quality US dub than is sent back to Japan for the next show. When anime got really really big companies like ADV essentially strip mined as much of the back catalog as they possibly could. Margins were laser thin. Then everyone figured out how to copy stuff and the resulting loss of sales reduced the tiny margins even more, and it all melted away. They bet their entire strategy on the most fleeting superficial aspects of fandom, and while it paid off big time, it also died in the process.

Giant Robo is one of my favorite series. It cost $35 for the whole thing on US DVD. The JP version cost about $250 on DVD, about $550 on LD. Why even have a US domestic market?

Animeigo and I are still here. Bandai is selling BRs directly to Americans. Discotek is AWESOME. So I don't actually feel that bad about it. I would if the anime being made in Japan was more interesting to me, but most of went away is really well dubbed bad anime for super low prices, and I was never into that at any point.
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 Post subject: Re: Are all US anime VHS tapes dubbed?
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 21:53 
Jedi Knight
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Btw, I have some stuff to say about "pro" fansubbers and such. I'll comment later when I have time.
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