It is currently 20 Jul 2019, 04:11




 Page 1 of 1 [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 05:51 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 01:43
Posts: 480
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 31 times
I can't find any trace of the cover with the obi. LDDB movie's sheet mention it.
Anyone know if there is obi or not for this version ? (CAV, jp)
_________________
LD-X1 (NTSC)
LD-V4300D (PAL/NTSC)
CLD-959 (NTSC)
CXUHD (DVD/BD/UHD/SACD)
Lumagen 2144 (scaler)
Collection
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 11:13 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 2384
Location: France
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 137 times
Mine has the side obi for Hotaru no Haka (Grave of the Fireflies) (1988) [SF098-1540]

Google (images) with "SF098-1540" to find it.

Both CLV and CAV have a side obi.

Hotaru no Haka (Grave of the Fireflies) (1988) [SF050-1508]
Hotaru no Haka (Grave of the Fireflies) (1988) [SF098-1540]

Julien
_________________
LDDb on Facebook!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 11:16 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 01:43
Posts: 480
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 31 times
Thank you Julien !
_________________
LD-X1 (NTSC)
LD-V4300D (PAL/NTSC)
CLD-959 (NTSC)
CXUHD (DVD/BD/UHD/SACD)
Lumagen 2144 (scaler)
Collection
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 17:33 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 3512
Location: United States
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 136 times
I never knew this was CAV. (I only have the box set version since it’s too depressing to watch). It played with Totoro which is from all the same people and Totoro’s LD is CLV. I wonder why that is...
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 01:22 
Hardcore fan
Hardcore fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2016, 06:38
Posts: 1330
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 43 times
signofzeta wrote:
I never knew this was CAV. (I only have the box set version since it’s too depressing to watch). It played with Totoro which is from all the same people and Totoro’s LD is CLV. I wonder why that is...


The boxset version of Grave is CLV

I might play frisbee golf with it. I saw it once mid 90s at my anime club. What a piece of garbage, I learned later it's one of the cornerstones of the Japanese post world war 2, revisionist history, "we were actually the biggest victims of the Asian war" industry. Yep, according to that department of Japan, Japan was just sitting there, minding their own business, lots of cute, noble and innocent women and children, and then America firebombed Tokyo, nuked two cities and occupied for NO REASON. Poor Japan. :roll:
_________________
Sony MDP-650, Sony MDP-355GX, Sony KVHR M36, DVDO VP-50
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 02:32 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 3512
Location: United States
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 136 times
I know the box set version is CLV. Almost every Ghibli LD is CLV. I find it odd that they spent the extra bread to make this movie CAV and not Totoro or any other Ghibli thing I can think of except On Your Mark since it’s less than 30 min.

It may have been a Takahata thing since he does off beat things like using brown lines but I don’t know.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 06:55 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 01:43
Posts: 480
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 31 times
forper wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
I never knew this was CAV. (I only have the box set version since it’s too depressing to watch). It played with Totoro which is from all the same people and Totoro’s LD is CLV. I wonder why that is...


The boxset version of Grave is CLV

I might play frisbee golf with it. I saw it once mid 90s at my anime club. What a piece of garbage, I learned later it's one of the cornerstones of the Japanese post world war 2, revisionist history, "we were actually the biggest victims of the Asian war" industry. Yep, according to that department of Japan, Japan was just sitting there, minding their own business, lots of cute, noble and innocent women and children, and then America firebombed Tokyo, nuked two cities and occupied for NO REASON. Poor Japan. :roll:


I don't know if the movie has bad english translation or not, but in Japanese, and French translation too, we cannot feel at all this "victimization" of Japan. When I speak with japanese people about the movie, they says usually that "war is leading to a very bad condition, not only for soldier, but also for citizen". You should know also that wars engaged by Japan during first part of XX siecle, is mainly due to the army who took power over the government, forcing citizen to go to war, even very young persons. Japan was not like Germany, where people choosed nazism through normal elections.
Grave of fireflies is also a criticism of the family relation, in Japan, forcing people to follow the "right" way, by working for the country. You can see that all the bad things happening to the children was due mainly to their family (the aunt), who refuses to help them, because they couldn't work properly.
_________________
LD-X1 (NTSC)
LD-V4300D (PAL/NTSC)
CLD-959 (NTSC)
CXUHD (DVD/BD/UHD/SACD)
Lumagen 2144 (scaler)
Collection
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 08:19 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41
Posts: 759
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 29 times
mimylovesjapan wrote:
I don't know if the movie has bad english translation or not, but in Japanese, and French translation too, we cannot feel at all this "victimization" of Japan. When I speak with japanese people about the movie, they says usually that "war is leading to a very bad condition, not only for soldier, but also for citizen". You should know also that wars engaged by Japan during first part of XX siecle, is mainly due to the army who took power over the government, forcing citizen to go to war, even very young persons. Japan was not like Germany, where people choosed nazism through normal elections.
Grave of fireflies is also a criticism of the family relation, in Japan, forcing people to follow the "right" way, by working for the country. You can see that all the bad things happening to the children was due mainly to their family (the aunt), who refuses to help them, because they couldn't work properly.

I assumed the post was just forper being forper, but anyway.

The thing I heard about the movie was that it was actually intended as an anti-delinquent movie, not an anti-war one, basically the whole message of the movie is "you think you've got it bad?" and that's the reason Seita's ghost looks directly at the viewer at the end of the movie. The reason the kids leave the aunt's place is because he refuses to swallow his pride, albeit the movie doesn't convey this in the most obvious manner, but there's a reason the author kills himself (remember, this is based on his own experiences) in his own story because he still blamed himself for his sister's death; if he'd swallowed his pride and stayed, she might've lived. I recall there was some criticism towards the portrayal of the aunt as such a horrible person in the movie, thus weakening the supposed message, and there's even been adaptation of the novel that's from her perspective. In fact, there's quite a few adaptations apparently, the Ghibli one just happens to be the most well known.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 09:10 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:57
Posts: 111
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
You would almost think forper himself was in the Bataan Death March, then shook his cane at "Grave" while having flashbacks of rising sun flags and whistling the theme to "Bridge on the River Kwai". Geez, he saw a different film from the consensus - Grave of the Fireflies was not Triumph of the Will, last I checked, and Takahata was hardly Leni Riefenstahl (in fact, like Miyazaki, he was a pretty hardcore activist/leftist with Communist sympathies and organized labor activities). No "rah rah Rising Sun banzai!" from Takahata, then. We're talking people who condemn even modern Japanese attempts at modifying their constitution to change the status of the military to that of a normal state (1). This background is useful in seeing where Grave is coming from.

If one wishes to equate the acknowledgement of noncombatant suffering in WWII Japan with the style of a North Korean propaganda film of evil baby killing Yankee GIs, it's a stretch. One could easily argue that the plight of the protagonists was the fault of the militarists in charge of Japan at the time, which is almost certainly the line Takahata and Miyazaki would take on the issue.

The Japanese did bad things in WWII, and I'm sure there are jingoist manga/anime that follow the ultranationalist line and ignore the bad stuff, but Grave is not in that genre. Roger Ebert included it on his short list of great films, including analogies with Schindler's List in terms of the film's import, and he was hardly a fascist either (2).

With this in mind, I'll give it 5 stars.

1. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/07/13/national/politics-diplomacy/famed-director-miyazaki-calls-abes-move-revise-constitution-despicable/
2. https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-grave-of-the-fireflies-1988
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 11:56 
Hardcore fan
Hardcore fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2016, 06:38
Posts: 1330
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 43 times
Takahata is not Miyazaki.

I saw it time and time again in Japan, it's force fed in the education system there. There are English text books (New Horizon) with the same story in it. If you go into city halls the comics for kids on the shelves have the same story again. It's all basically just a retelling of Barefoot Gen.

Yep, the story is basically the same every time. It's always completely out of context of the Japanese aggression that preceded it.

The story always STARTS with American bombers over Japan. Or, in the case of the New Horizon text book, "one day there was a bright light in the sky...' (A nuke going off).

Grave is exactly the same, it's part of the propaganda fed to Japanese youth to make them believe that Japan was an innocent victim.

My grandfather fought in Bogainville and my great uncle almost died in Changhi prison (part of the Australian force at Singapore), came back a walking skeleton. So yeah, I don't like it when none of this is told to Japanese youth. It's revisionist.
_________________
Sony MDP-650, Sony MDP-355GX, Sony KVHR M36, DVDO VP-50
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 12:28 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 01:43
Posts: 480
Location: Japan
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 31 times
Forper, you mix too much things in your post.
1. First, yes, this movie, and this story in general is part of education in Japan. But the objective of this was to turn completly Japan in a pacific country. It is clearly an american intrusive plan after the war to impose this way of thinking. And it worked great. You cannot find nowdays any legal fascist political party in Japan. (there are some nationalists claiming return of old Japan, but not any official party).
2. "Japanese agression" was a "military agression". You can't mix military decisions with what people wants. Especially in Japan, where people couldn't choose their governement before the war.
3. Anyone has bad story in their family, but you have to go far. My grand father fought the german during the WWII, but I don't have anything against german people, and I know that lot of them suffered also during the war.
You should try to read other books about the war that japanese reads during their education. Adolf, written by Tezuka for exemple. Lot of people in Japan read that book. And it is clearly not a good image of the Japan-German colaboration.
_________________
LD-X1 (NTSC)
LD-V4300D (PAL/NTSC)
CLD-959 (NTSC)
CXUHD (DVD/BD/UHD/SACD)
Lumagen 2144 (scaler)
Collection
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 19:46 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:57
Posts: 111
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
"Takahata is not Miyazaki" - I agree. If anything, Takahata was even more left wing and radical.
Quote:
Takahata Isao had expressed his hatred for the war during the interview with Asahi Shimbun. In fact, besides being an animation creator, Takahata Isao was also active on politics and social movements. He openly supported the “Japanese Communist Party” and promoted the concept of anti-war as well as the defense of Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution. (Peacekeeping force) In 2015, he delivered a speech to note his opposition against the amendment of Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution on the 70th anniversary Post-war Memorial Ceremony. (1)


With this background, any claim that Takahata had revisionist and right wing nationalist intent in making the film is right out the window. Anyone familiar with current Japanese politics knows the above stance of Takahata is as hard left as it gets. If he stated those beliefs at an Uyoku nationalist rally (same folks that support revisionist textbooks), he would be running for his life in short order from angry guys in black vans. If some Japanese ultranationalists choose to use Grave for propaganda purposes, it hence has nothing to do with what the film is trying to say. Such facile readings of the text fail to understand to source material as well, with the book being something of an autobiographical self guilt trip over the protagonist's responsibility for his sister's death (I attended an academic talk on this topic).


1. https://chinapost.nownews.com/20180409-280302
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 10:17 
Hardcore fan
Hardcore fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2016, 06:38
Posts: 1330
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 43 times
mimylovesjapan wrote:
3. Anyone has bad story in their family, but you have to go far. My grand father fought the german during the WWII, but I don't have anything against german people, and I know that lot of them suffered also during the war.


When did I say I have anything against today's Japanese people??

I think the educators and government shouldn't whitewash their history.
_________________
Sony MDP-650, Sony MDP-355GX, Sony KVHR M36, DVDO VP-50
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 10:19 
Hardcore fan
Hardcore fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2016, 06:38
Posts: 1330
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 43 times
harlock wrote:
"Takahata is not Miyazaki" - I agree. If anything, Takahata was even more left wing and radical.
Quote:
Takahata Isao had expressed his hatred for the war during the interview with Asahi Shimbun. In fact, besides being an animation creator, Takahata Isao was also active on politics and social movements. He openly supported the “Japanese Communist Party” and promoted the concept of anti-war as well as the defense of Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution. (Peacekeeping force) In 2015, he delivered a speech to note his opposition against the amendment of Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution on the 70th anniversary Post-war Memorial Ceremony. (1)


With this background, any claim that Takahata had revisionist and right wing nationalist intent in making the film is right out the window. Anyone familiar with current Japanese politics knows the above stance of Takahata is as hard left as it gets.


In what world is being a hard left communist a good thing? Communists are just as capable as fascists in indocrinating people to their view of the world and of history.
_________________
Sony MDP-650, Sony MDP-355GX, Sony KVHR M36, DVDO VP-50
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 14:55 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 5632
Location: United States
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 100 times
forper wrote:

In what world is being a hard left communist a good thing? Communists are just as capable as fascists in indocrinating people to their view of the world and of history.


In the Twilight Zone.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 17:31 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41
Posts: 759
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 29 times
I still fail to see what any of this has to do with the movie.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 17:36 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 5632
Location: United States
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 100 times
takeshi666 wrote:
I still fail to see what any of this has to do with the movie.

Well I've been re-watching the Twilight Zone series. Some great stories and sort of reminds me of this topic and many in this twilight zone
forum :wtf:
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 20:05 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:57
Posts: 111
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
"In what world is being a hard left communist a good thing?"
I never said it was. My point is that there is no way this film's creator supported stuff like textbook revisionism and "whitewashing" Japan's past, and his communist leanings tend to support this (along with his other politics above). This was not a "poor Japan, we did nothing wrong" kind of guy given those facts and any "indoctrination" Takahata would have intended would have been to show Imperial Japan in a bad light, as I've demonstrated.

Condemning a universally praised film like this is going to require some support other than kneejerk emotion, and just saying "sumguys use it to support a revisionist narrative" doesn't cut it.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grave of the Fireflies CAV obi
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 00:46 
Hardcore fan
Hardcore fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2016, 06:38
Posts: 1330
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 43 times
harlock wrote:
"In what world is being a hard left communist a good thing?"
I never said it was. My point is that there is no way this film's creator supported stuff like textbook revisionism and "whitewashing" Japan's past, and his communist leanings tend to support this (along with his other politics above). This was not a "poor Japan, we did nothing wrong" kind of guy given those facts and any "indoctrination" Takahata would have intended would have been to show Imperial Japan in a bad light, as I've demonstrated.


Okay, if the movie wasn't in the genre of "poor Japan, we did nothing wrong" (and yes even though that excuse is given to Japanese people to encourage pacifism, it's still a lie) point out one scene in the movie that shows Japanese forces outside of Japan. Not just doing bad stuff but doing ANYTHING.

Nope, you won't find one. Same as all Barefoot Gen style material.

That suits the Japanese just fine, their culture is very insular and self focused.

All I'm saying is all this stuff, all these movies and comics like Barefoot Gen, including Grave should have SOME CONTEXT, just one scene of Japanese troops moving into Asia. Maybe a battle with the US Navy. ANYTHING.

But they don't. That's propaganda.
_________________
Sony MDP-650, Sony MDP-355GX, Sony KVHR M36, DVDO VP-50
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 19 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: