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 Post subject: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD capture
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 09:43 
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Discotek is using the Domesday board to do a laserdisc rip as the master for their forthcoming bluray, wow. Given the lost original materials, LD is the best they can find apparently.

https://twitter.com/discotekmedia/statu ... 1272842240


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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 11:10 
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I wish wish WISH that the Domesday team could do some sort of crowd funding project to get complete kits (all the boards, RF cable etc) in to more hands.

On the other hand it is great to see the Domesday Duplicator being used in a commercial project such as this so that we can all benefit from it. Especially as Project A-Ko is great too!

I'll be following this one with interest for sure. What a great moment for the future of Laserdisc (and VHS?) preservation. The geniuses behind the Domesday Duplicator and of course Dr. Happycube M.D should be very proud of what they have achieved. Bravo! :thumbup: :clap:

N.B It also states they are preserving and restoring the sequels too. Great news!
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 12:52 
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Would love to see the complete A-ko but as of now I'm happy with my LDs. Its sad with things getting lost like that or damaged beyond repair.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 13:59 
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Those responsible for the Domesday Duplicator and associated decoding software Discotek are using should be seeing royalties off this.......
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 14:51 
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So you're just buying a fan made bluray copy of an LD.

On another note, it just shows how great LD really was and is, they can admit it already.......

And if its anything like the DVD they released ripped from an LD you will be able to tell right away
that it was a rip from LD.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 15:33 
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Both full frame and letterbox versions?

Which LDs are those?
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 15:36 
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rein-o wrote:
So you're just buying a fan made bluray copy of an LD.

On another note, it just shows how great LD really was and is, they can admit it already.......

And if its anything like the DVD they released ripped from an LD you will be able to tell right away
that it was a rip from LD.


This is a copy of an LD but to “copy” something isn’t what it once was. If they are using Domesday Duplicator, mutiple copies, etc the amount of signal processing that will be used in the end takes it way beyond “Laserdisc”. Laserdisc is simply the thing their super powerful AI traced in order to make what is effectively an all new image.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 15:38 
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xtempo wrote:
Would love to see the complete A-ko but as of now I'm happy with my LDs. Its sad with things getting lost like that or damaged beyond repair.


There is no lost footage, just lost quality in there being no negative to scan. They are copying these from LD...therefore it already exists on LD.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 18:15 
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Question: has anyone brought up scanning a French theatrical print?
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 19:04 
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signofzeta wrote:
xtempo wrote:
Would love to see the complete A-ko but as of now I'm happy with my LDs. Its sad with things getting lost like that or damaged beyond repair.


There is no lost footage, just lost quality in there being no negative to scan. They are copying these from LD...therefore it already exists on LD.


I know that I was talking in general on these things. It sounds like they won't tough VS. so to be completionist I am keeping my LDs anyway. Also have the VHS. I hate VS. but its still A-ko and I keep it for that.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 20:10 
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signofzeta wrote:
rein-o wrote:
So you're just buying a fan made bluray copy of an LD.

On another note, it just shows how great LD really was and is, they can admit it already.......

And if its anything like the DVD they released ripped from an LD you will be able to tell right away
that it was a rip from LD.


This is a copy of an LD but to “copy” something isn’t what it once was. If they are using Domesday Duplicator, mutiple copies, etc the amount of signal processing that will be used in the end takes it way beyond “Laserdisc”. Laserdisc is simply the thing their super powerful AI traced in order to make what is effectively an all new image.

Due to what an LD is you can't really make it better than what the best image you can get.

It will always be a copy of an LD on bluray and will always look like an LD period.

As for prints, why can't one copy the print from another country and then transfer the soundtrack?

This also reminds me of the DVD 2 disc Rock & Rule, the original release of the film had a different soundtrack and they only
had a horrible VHS copy, why couldn't they use the better print and just transfer the few minutes in poor quality and or
audio so we didn't have to watch the horrible PQ.

To me this is just another money grab for them to make another copy of the film which I doubt you will be able to notice any PQ
from the older DVD to the BR which is still from the LD.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 20:33 
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You don’t seem to understand how much AI goes into these things. It’s like if I paused the LD and had someone draw the frame themselves again. There is little trace of the original if they don’t want there to be. In the end %80 of the color resolution will have been fabricated by software. It’s like motion smoothing but within a single frame. When essentially oversampling (using more than one LD) and performing post processing that takes a day to render you absolutely can make a better image than you will get with an actual LD player. This is mostly because of the AI but also because
you’re “playing” the LD in a way that gives a better image than any player ever built by Pioneer alone you have way more information and likely zero noise.

Would scanning the print look better. ABSOLUTELY. A high quality HD version of a high quality anime is a rare and special thing though. Not everything can be the Unico double feature BR. Most of the time the feature isn’t worth the treatment and if it is often the masters are lost. This is as good as current knowledge allows for this particular work.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 20:53 
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xtempo wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
xtempo wrote:
Would love to see the complete A-ko but as of now I'm happy with my LDs. Its sad with things getting lost like that or damaged beyond repair.


There is no lost footage, just lost quality in there being no negative to scan. They are copying these from LD...therefore it already exists on LD.


I know that I was talking in general on these things. It sounds like they won't tough VS. so to be completionist I am keeping my LDs anyway. Also have the VHS. I hate VS. but its still A-ko and I keep it for that.


You don’t have to acknowledge it as A-ko if you don’t want to. That’s the Star Wars fan in you talking. If it’s crap, it’s crap. Dump it. Spend the money on a really cool A-ko book or record that doesn’t suck at all.

I watched that garbage VS series 1/2 of a time and never looked back. It sucks.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 21:02 
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They had the technology years ago when they released the first DVD rip they could have done a better job then.

Yes they can go in a scan each frame but then why not just hire a company to redraw the entire film and shoot it again, would be quicker and I'm
sure more expensive but since they are going to all these lengths and even picking up 5 LD copies to make 1 good master from all the rotted LDs they have.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 21:37 
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On which LD edition they are using for full screen, it's likely the Japanese released "Perfect Disc" https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/46857/G138F0117/Project-A-Ko:-Perfect-Disc that contains the 4x3 original aspect ratio. I think that's the only fullscreen LD?

On the topic of using multiple copies, I think finding the least amount of non rot dropouts would also be part of that (but I imagine software can take care of the usual little blips that are normal for LD). The Perfect Disc of A-Ko is on Pony Canyon, who had their run ins with rot, so they may need a few - there's one rot report here (I hope my copy is good, I haven't watched it yet). There was a later re release as well, which might make the chances of finding clean copies better.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 22:19 
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rein-o wrote:
They had the technology years ago when they released the first DVD rip they could have done a better job then.


No, they didn’t have the technology and as a forum user here you should know that. Also, DVD is MPEG 2 and looks like it, artifacts are nearly invisible on BR. The format you’re actually watching it on matters too. Film grain plus LD noise plus DVD artifacts...less that ideal.

You completely missed my analogy about drawing the movie again. I wasn’t suggesting anyone do that and never would. In saying that very advanced video mastering software basically does that.

This is the same company that letterboxed Robot Carnival so they might f it up in a million ways just by having bad taste but there is no reason I can see for this BR to not look significantly better than the DVD on a technical level.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 22:38 
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I mean technology years ago to clean stuff up, I saw the remaster of TF the movie, they went in frame by frame and did an amazing job.
But then again they removed a black speck for the bluray that was on the original print used for the LD and for the DVD both full and widescreen versions.
TF the movie came out years ago.
I just feel this is another cash grab from this company.

BTW amazed how they got the rights to any tezuka stuff, they are such a b**ch to contact about anything, I even dealt with them at a licensing show
in the late 90s, what a pain, they are just a traveling museum to show off someone else's works.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 01:44 
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Every 7-12 years things need to be reprinted or else there wouldn’t be any new copies anymore. When this happens they usually present it as some sort of upgrade. If a new format has been invented then that will be the excuse and then that being an “early” release on the format will be the excuse to replace it later and so on. The main thing going on though...is that they are just reprinting it. If you want to buy it again because it’s better, then do it. If not, don’t. We all know “new” versions of things can suck (“Faces” Star Wars, virtually all early DVD, remastered Maiden, etc) so there is a risk.

In this case we are talking about not film restoration but SD video restoration which for sure is an emerging field. LD based DVDs usually look pretty lame so hopefully this will impress. I’m interested in seeing the demo clips. We all have the LDs to compare them too.

I think Unico is mostly owned by Sanrio so that’s probably a factor in that.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 04:06 
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signofzeta wrote:
You don’t seem to understand how much AI goes into these things. It’s like if I paused the LD and had someone draw the frame themselves again. There is little trace of the original if they don’t want there to be. In the end %80 of the color resolution will have been fabricated by software. It’s like motion smoothing but within a single frame. When essentially oversampling (using more than one LD) and performing post processing that takes a day to render you absolutely can make a better image than you will get with an actual LD player. This is mostly because of the AI but also because
you’re “playing” the LD in a way that gives a better image than any player ever built by Pioneer alone you have way more information and likely zero noise.

Would scanning the print look better. ABSOLUTELY. A high quality HD version of a high quality anime is a rare and special thing though. Not everything can be the Unico double feature BR. Most of the time the feature isn’t worth the treatment and if it is often the masters are lost. This is as good as current knowledge allows for this particular work.

If you've ever heard the sole sub-contractor who does all of this restoration work and disc authoring by himself for Discotek in a interview you'd know he doesn't really all spend that much time on any given project. Now granted, I think because of the nature of this current project he's likely to spend a ton of time just learning the process.

I use to own all the A-ko releases on VHS, then later upgraded from those to the DVDs. Personally, finding this project very interesting, but also no plans of buying it when it releases. Could the picture quality be better? Well certainly, and good luck to him in this seemingly time consuming process. But for me, I'll stick with the DVD box set that I'm very happy and content to own.

But like some of you, I'm more intrigued by the possibilities of what this project means for lost media restoration as a whole moving forward. Sentai Filmworks caught flack for their Maiden Japan label Blu-Ray release of "Xabungle" not even two years ago because that title, like A-ko, no longer has a master copy and so they ripped LDs for that release. Sadly, I missed out on buying that limited release before it sold out and the flippers began re-marketing it for $200. But just the fact it finally got licensed and released should have been enough to have made everyone who was fortunate enough to have scored a copy very happy.
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 Post subject: Re: Project A-Ko Blu ray remaster is using Domesday LD captu
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 14:06 
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tweeg wrote:
But like some of you, I'm more intrigued by the possibilities of what this project means for lost media restoration as a whole moving forward. Sentai Filmworks caught flack for their Maiden Japan label Blu-Ray release of "Xabungle" not even two years ago because that title, like A-ko, no longer has a master copy and so they ripped LDs for that release. Sadly, I missed out on buying that limited release before it sold out and the flippers began re-marketing it for $200. But just the fact it finally got licensed and released should have been enough to have made everyone who was fortunate enough to have scored a copy very happy.


Interesting, is there a forum or site that says which releases are direct rips from LDs and which are not?
I was trying to watch angel cop last night streaming and I swear it was a rip from an LD.

If this is the case then I now know why the anime LDs are still commanding high prices.
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