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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2021, 16:15 
Jedi Knight
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It’s pretty amazing how badly DBZ is handled. It’s one of the biggest shows ever.

Same thing with Loony Tunes and The Muppet Show. The home video era is over and they never delivered a real box set in any format.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2021, 16:56 
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DBZ's handling is indeed dogshit, but to me it's never been too surprising. For people my age and a bit older, DBZ is simply mainstream. It's a lot easier to sell cropped DVDs with blown-out colors when the number of anime nerds pales in comparison to that of the average joes who simply don't want "the black bars" on their widescreen TVs.

As for Looney Tunes, I think that has more to do with that there were just so damn many of them. My impression is that while a good number of them are indispensable classics (Baseball Bugs, What's Opera Doc, Duck Amuck, Fast and Furry-ous...), a lot more of them are just "...eh." Not to mention the ones that Warner Bros. doesn't want to touch with a ten-foot pole anymore. We had the first two Golden Collection sets when I was a kid, and that was more than enough for me.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2021, 17:15 
Jedi Master
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I think you hit most of it on the head regarding looney tunes.
For me the only good ones are the characters like Bugs, Roadrunner etc. While I do love some of the old Merry Melodies most if not about 99% are just whatever
and just copies or cheaper versions of what Disney was doing at the same time.

Then you just didn't have many of the main character cartoons.

Another issue are the collections that have been released, most of the single LDs have all those cartoons on the box set of 6 volumes of DVDs.
There are Blurays and those are another mixed bag of part of them without a collection of them all.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2021, 18:41 
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rcarlson wrote:
DBZ's handling is indeed dogshit, but to me it's never been too surprising. For people my age and a bit older, DBZ is simply mainstream. It's a lot easier to sell cropped DVDs with blown-out colors when the number of anime nerds pales in comparison to that of the average joes who simply don't want "the black bars" on their widescreen TVs.

As for Looney Tunes, I think that has more to do with that there were just so damn many of them. My impression is that while a good number of them are indispensable classics (Baseball Bugs, What's Opera Doc, Duck Amuck, Fast and Furry-ous...), a lot more of them are just "...eh." Not to mention the ones that Warner Bros. doesn't want to touch with a ten-foot pole anymore. We had the first two Golden Collection sets when I was a kid, and that was more than enough for me.


Completely agree with this, they don't need to put out a good product to sell DBZ.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2021, 22:09 
Jedi Knight
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They do if they want to sell it to me!
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2021, 00:18 
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I have tons of anime and I don't have DBZ so take from that what you will.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2021, 22:12 
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gypsy wrote:
Completely agree with this, they don't need to put out a good product to sell DBZ.

That's the sad part isn't it? There's too many people willing to settle for a substandard product simply because it's "better than nothing".

Imagine if everyone who complained about Star Wars tinkering actually voted with their wallets. I wonder how long Fox/Lucasfilm/whoever would stick to their guns then.

I want to say that I don't think something like that would work with someone like Harmony Gold who makes so much money in their other business ventures that they literally don't have to care if you buy their crap or not, but considering the Sony buyout is complete news to me, I'm clearly way out of the loop.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 04:57 
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Some of it's people settling for a substandard product, but I think it mostly comes down to people who can't tell a good product from a kick in the teeth. Most people (as horrifying as it is to think of) don't realize when a TV has frame interpolation turned on, will automatically think that any picture that doesn't completely fill the screen is missing parts, and wouldn't notice if you re-orchestrated a film's soundtrack with a middle-school band. (Okay, that last one's an exaggeration... I think.)

The situation with anime's usually better because it's a niche product; a bad release cuts proportionally deeper into sales. That's why the worst releases are often the ones with the broadest appeal.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 13:47 
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rein-o wrote:
I think you hit most of it on the head regarding looney tunes.
For me the only good ones are the characters like Bugs, Roadrunner etc. While I do love some of the old Merry Melodies most if not about 99% are just whatever
and just copies or cheaper versions of what Disney was doing at the same time.

Then you just didn't have many of the main character cartoons.

Another issue are the collections that have been released, most of the single LDs have all those cartoons on the box set of 6 volumes of DVDs.
There are Blurays and those are another mixed bag of part of them without a collection of them all.


For starters, you guys sound like punters. There are loads of great LT shorts that don’t involve the mains. That kid Ralph who daydreams he’s rescuing is parents from a stewpot or aliens? The dog and wolf that clock in when they get to the sheep meadow? One Froggy Evening, Nelly’s Folly? Loony Tunes is one thing I will non-sarcastically thrown the term “genius” around to describe because it really is. Mel Blanc and Chuck Jones in particular. You guys should probably devote real time to these things. They are as classic and classic can be, the animation embarrasses anything made today and the humor is very insightful.


The issue with Loony Tunes on video is that most people, including me, massively prefer the later stuff but they gave up on Golden Age of... so there are no box sets with the most popular shorts. Furthermore none of this was attempted in DVD or BR which are just random shorts thrown together in themed compilations. After the VHS/LD era they have produced fewer of these. No matter what you buy though you are missing shorts and if you buy more than two or three Bugs collections you end up with duplicates. Meanwhile since the DVD era they have been messing up the aspect ratios left and right, usually getting it right but also cropping things to wide that were 4:3 and cropping things to 4:3 that are supposed to be 16:9.

At one point there was a market for an all inclusive box set for $300 or so but not anymore. It’s over, they blew it, and now piracy makes more sense than buying any new release. They INSIST on doing it this way. Not even in Japan is there a box set so you know they prefer it like this...it’s like being sold Greatest Hits collections over and over but never an actual “Complete Singles” release.

The Muppet Show is even worse. They still haven’t put out anything but Seasons 1 and 2. Since then they have bought Star Wars and made...however movies they have made, at least three, but haven’t managed to do seasons 3 and 4. Disney + has them but they are missing things.

This is all stuff that used to play on TV all day every day but now it’s too valuable to release period. It makes zero sense to me.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 14:55 
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signofzeta wrote:

For starters, you guys sound like punters. There are loads of great LT shorts that don’t involve the mains. That kid Ralph who daydreams he’s rescuing is parents from a stewpot or aliens? The dog and wolf that clock in when they get to the sheep meadow? One Froggy Evening, Nelly’s Folly? Loony Tunes is one thing I will non-sarcastically thrown the term “genius” around to describe because it really is. Mel Blanc and Chuck Jones in particular. You guys should probably devote real time to these things. They are as classic and classic can be, the animation embarrasses anything made today and the humor is very insightful.


Yes those are classics, I'm talking about the older ones with the guy at the hotel who daydreams about
seeing the young girl star. Or any of those bug nightlife ones, they are great when you watch it the first time but after
they keep remaking them its just boring.

I wanna singa with the german owl father/music teacher and the son who wants to be a Jazz singer is a classic.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 16:01 
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If having watched enough dispensable Looney Tunes shorts (which includes examples a-plenty from both the main cast and the one-offs/also-rans) to decide that I respect my time too much to watch even half of them makes me a "punter," I guess I'm a punter. Sure, I think it'd be great if there was a comprehensive set, but only as a matter of principle (distributed preservation of media). I probably wouldn't buy it myself. And to be clear: I'm not saying that there isn't loads of genius that went into Looney Tunes, or that there isn't animation history value even in the clunkers, just that they had more of a batting average than a field goal percentage if you get my drift. It's like Peanuts; the valleys are justified by the peaks, and the sheer volume of it is an impressive achievement even if there's little reason to experience every last one. (And Peanuts is my second-favorite comic strip behind only Calvin & Hobbes, but again, batting average.)
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 16:14 
Jedi Knight
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I disagree completely. “Disposable” is not a term I would use to describe Loony Tunes.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 16:22 
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...Good thing I didn't?

"Looney Tunes" is indispensable. "Every last Looney Tunes short" contains plenty that given perfect foresight I would have skipped.

To bring this back to Macross, this is like if I said, "I watched a few episodes of Macross Frontier and decided it wasn't for me," and someone lectured me that Macross (not Frontier, just Macross without any qualifiers) is actually brilliant and I just don't know.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 21:58 
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There's like a thousand or something Looney Tunes shorts and only about half of them have been released on DVD or blu-ray. And that's across all the releases, not accounting the massive quantities of duplicated content! Which honestly is just the kind of thing that'll make an average collector lose interest fast, when you can't get everything and you have to pay to get a lot of the same stuff multiple times.

I think it's pretty wild that Taz was in just four shorts despite now being considered one of the biggest characters.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 22:15 
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rcarlson wrote:
...Good thing I didn't?

"Looney Tunes" is indispensable. "Every last Looney Tunes short" contains plenty that given perfect foresight I would have skipped.

To bring this back to Macross, this is like if I said, "I watched a few episodes of Macross Frontier and decided it wasn't for me," and someone lectured me that Macross (not Frontier, just Macross without any qualifiers) is actually brilliant and I just don't know.


I misread that, sorry.

I see your point, I just don’t acknowledge it because there aren’t a large number of bad Looney Tunes that need to be culled or forgotten. In fact there are many LTs that are genuinely hard to find/see. They aren’t on YouTube, or TV now so honestly most people’s entire concept of LT is formed by two dozen shorts.

Also your comparison to Macross is very bad. Loony Tunes was extremely creator driven by a small list of directors and, for the most part, two voice actors, across a continuous period of output. Therefore even the “bad” ones (what are these, btw) are still %100 totally legit Loony Tunes. Macross is multiple completely different projects connected only by whoever has the rights at the moment, therefore any of the bad stuff is just worthless having little to nothing connecting it to the good stuff. Loony Tunes was never as desperate as Macross II, as padded as Macross 7, or as off target as Macross Zero. I love Macross and have no use for owning all of it but I would love a LT box set.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 14:45 
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Quote:
Macross is multiple completely different projects connected only by whoever has the rights at the moment, therefore any of the bad stuff is just worthless having little to nothing connecting it to the good stuff.

Except Shoji Kawamori, of course? Like yeah, obviously Macross is marked by massive qualitative differences over the years, but if the original creator was just rubber-stamping all of it he's hugely over-represented in the credits. I'm not going to say my analogy wasn't exaggerated, but let's not pretend that nobody who worked on the best of Macross has any responsibility for whatever the hell it is now.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 19:21 
Jedi Knight
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Macross is as subject to merciless market forces, compromises have to be made. LTs were regular work and very high budget. If it weren’t for $$$ there wouldn’t be any Gundam models, but that’s where we are.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2021, 22:18 
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signofzeta wrote:
The Muppet Show is even worse. They still haven’t put out anything but Seasons 1 and 2. Since then they have bought Star Wars and made...however movies they have made, at least three, but haven’t managed to do seasons 3 and 4. Disney + has them but they are missing things.

I think they did release the entire series in Germany on DVD, original music and all. The only downside is that the episode title cards are in German.
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 13:34 
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takeshi666 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
The Muppet Show is even worse. They still haven’t put out anything but Seasons 1 and 2. Since then they have bought Star Wars and made...however movies they have made, at least three, but haven’t managed to do seasons 3 and 4. Disney + has them but they are missing things.

I think they did release the entire series in Germany on DVD, original music and all. The only downside is that the episode title cards are in German.


Is there no translation and complete localization or at least subtitles?
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 Post subject: Re: Macross News
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 14:00 
Jedi Knight
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Why would you want subtitles on something in English?
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