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 Post subject: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2021, 01:39 
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So, I've been trying to get hold of a Lumagen 2144, or 2124... but nothing is around.

As an alternative, what do you think about an HDQ deinterlacing and outputting 480p followed by a 2123 doing the upscale to 1080p?

I've read up about both... I can't really tell how much better the 2144 is at deinterlacing than the HDQ... and I know that the 2123 has the same scaling and CMS as the 2124/2144 (except for 4k, but we're talking LD here).

I also have a Faroudja NRS, and a DVDO Duo... but I think the Lumagen HDQ is probably the right choice...

Source is a CLD-97.

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts!
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2021, 03:13 
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What’s the LD equivalent to the Sega Genesis “tower of power”? (CD, system, Sega Channel/32X, Game Genie, Pro Action Replay, XBand, Sonic and Knuckles (as many as you have) and then the game itself that’s actually being played) I’ve seen stacks as high as 5 feet tall (someone has to stand up to hold it in place) that still run Sonic 3 (garbled, but running).

Who has the longest LD tool chain? What is your display and have you ever seen in person another system that you can compare it to? Does your AVR have enough audio buffer to compensate?
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2021, 04:11 
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I guess that's a thought... I'm only 2 deep...
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2021, 04:29 
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Do duo + any radiance series.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2021, 05:40 
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Can do... so Duo has better de-interlace than HDQ. Interesting!
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2021, 05:53 
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Oh, sorry... Display is either a Marquee 9500LC, or a JVC DLA-RS600. I'd feed the audio through the tool chain as well, so the DVDO Duo and 2123 would have configurable audio delay.

I'm fairly sure I need the 2123 at the end to modify the output timing for the 9500LC to prevent ringing on the retrace. The CMS will be for the 9500LC as well... mostly...
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2021, 16:49 
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Yes Duo has significantly better deinterlacing than HDQ. Set the output to 480p so scaling is in Radiance. Check with the manuals but any Radiance should be able to adjust its output timing. CMS is needed if you pro calibration meters and calibration software. It is partially science and partially an art. So if you aren’t familiar with the process, you should hire a proven professional which can cost $1000+ for a projector. I would probably stay away from the Marquee.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2021, 18:15 
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signofzeta wrote:

Who has the longest LD tool chain? What is your display and have you ever seen in person another system that you can compare it to? Does your AVR have enough audio buffer to compensate?


This may be a fun topic to start, would this be like the LD centipede rather than human centipede???
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2021, 06:35 
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rein-o wrote:
signofzeta wrote:

Who has the longest LD tool chain? What is your display and have you ever seen in person another system that you can compare it to? Does your AVR have enough audio buffer to compensate?


This may be a fun topic to start, would this be like the LD centipede rather than human centipede???



I have heard ld player -> eval board -> Algolith mosquito-> dvdo duo -> lumagen. Although this should not have a visible deterioration to the video, it will definitely hurt the audio. Each device will add jitter and electrical noise into the i2s audio stream.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2021, 07:01 
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Stay away from the Marquee? Hmmm... i've run CRT since 1998. Only recently (RS600) have I found a digital projector that came close. I've owned an RS10, RS20, RS35, RS40, RS45, and finally the RS600. Yup, I know I'm 3 generations behind,...

Digital is really nice, but CRT remains the most like film to me. Guess which still gets used the most?

I bet Lumagen CMS with the 9500LC at 1080P will look amazing... Nothing like a picture with TRUE blacks and no pixels. :)

I'm old school though... guess you kind of have to be to run LD now and then... Don't wish to start any wars... I own and run both digital and CRT.

I just want to watch my LDs in the best possible way within my budget.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2021, 08:09 
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CRT is not anymore analog than Lcos in the JVC. Lcos JVC is not more digital than the CRT. There is no such thing as digital display. All displays have to covert to analog rgb before the signal becomes light output aka screen. Older displays expect older signals and they are better tuned for it. All processing is done in the digital domain still unless you go way back.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2021, 13:49 
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No argument!

However, LCoS does have pixel structure. Granted, it's very dense (high fill factor).

CRT is all analog. Digital through the processing chain, then either DAC in the projector input module, or, if you're lucky enough to have a Lumagen 2124 or 2144, RGBHV analog to the VIM of the projector. It turns into a frequency response issue.

At 1080p, you're at the limit of the 9500LC, for the most part, so it softens the image... no pixels... but it's subjectively different from de-focusing the JVC lens or something.

Anyways, like I said. It's subjective... and the difference is so small now, between LCoS and CRT, that I'm on the fence... LCoS is brighter now, but still somehow not "warm"... don't know how to describe it...
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2021, 22:04 
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substance wrote:
Yes Duo has significantly better deinterlacing than HDQ. Set the output to 480p so scaling is in Radiance. Check with the manuals but any Radiance should be able to adjust its output timing. CMS is needed if you pro calibration meters and calibration software. It is partially science and partially an art. So if you aren’t familiar with the process, you should hire a proven professional which can cost $1000+ for a projector. I would probably stay away from the Marquee.

Duo also has same ADV comb filter as the 2144.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2021, 00:54 
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Awesome!

And it accepts audio in as well!

Thanks everyone! I basically have a 2124 now.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2021, 21:37 
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audioboyz1973 wrote:
substance wrote:
Yes Duo has significantly better deinterlacing than HDQ...

Duo also has same ADV comb filter as the 2144.


Apologies for resurrecting this old thread. I didn't want to start a new one with basically the same context.

I just had a nOOb question, as I was also looking to snag a 2124/2144 and have been reading all manner of forum posts about comb filters and processing chips. I think it was at the AVS forum that some else also brought up the fact that the Duo (and I think they also said the Edge) has the same comb filter as the 2144. However, the implication that one would get similar performance from the Duo as they would from the 2144 was quickly squashed on the next post, saying that (I'm trying to remember accurately, as I can't find the post) the Duo lacks "sufficient RAM" (?) to allow the ADV74xx chip to work it's magic (or something to that effect).

Does anyone have a comment as to the validity of that statement? Or am I misunderstanding what was stated??? It would certainly be easier and cheaper to find a Duo for my LD set up, as I already have a Lumagne XE for CMS and upscaling (unless that's not a good fit).

Thanx
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 19:20 
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technomancer wrote:
audioboyz1973 wrote:
substance wrote:
Yes Duo has significantly better deinterlacing than HDQ...

Duo also has same ADV comb filter as the 2144.


Apologies for resurrecting this old thread. I didn't want to start a new one with basically the same context.

I just had a nOOb question, as I was also looking to snag a 2124/2144 and have been reading all manner of forum posts about comb filters and processing chips. I think it was at the AVS forum that some else also brought up the fact that the Duo (and I think they also said the Edge) has the same comb filter as the 2144. However, the implication that one would get similar performance from the Duo as they would from the 2144 was quickly squashed on the next post, saying that (I'm trying to remember accurately, as I can't find the post) the Duo lacks "sufficient RAM" (?) to allow the ADV74xx chip to work it's magic (or something to that effect).

Does anyone have a comment as to the validity of that statement? Or am I misunderstanding what was stated??? It would certainly be easier and cheaper to find a Duo for my LD set up, as I already have a Lumagne XE for CMS and upscaling (unless that's not a good fit).

Thanx


I can't explain the technical reasons but Duo (and Edge) cannot come anywhere near the performance of Lumagen 2144, not even the same ballpark.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen HDQ -> 2123?
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 22:49 
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pbiancardi wrote:
I can't explain the technical reasons but Duo (and Edge) cannot come anywhere near the performance of Lumagen 2144, not even the same ballpark.


Thanx for the response.

I did not mean to imply the a Duo would go toe-to-toe as a stand-alone unit with the Lumagen. The inference was that, since it's not only difficult but expensive to find a 2124/2144, one could use the Duo just for deinterlacing (since it uses the same ADV chip as the 2124) and passing that along to a better processor for scaling and color management.

I already have a Radiance XE and the deinterlacing is good, but not great. substance suggested to use a "Duo to any Radiance". I'm not knowledgeable enough to be questioning any suggestions from the members here. I was just commenting on another post I read over at AVS that said that even though the Duo has the same comb filter as the 2124, the Duo lacks the RAM (I think it's what was said; I can't find the post) to be able to let the ADV chip do the work properly (whatever that means). Since two knowledgeable members have made contradictory statements, I was wondering what cold be the reason for the discrepancy in opinions, or am I just not understanding what each is trying to say.

Thanx again for your help...I need it. :P
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