It is currently 18 Oct 2021, 11:30




 Page 3 of 4 [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 21:29 
Knows how to post
Knows how to post
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2021, 02:34
Posts: 8
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
$800 is too steep for me for a composite only device, I just got two Snell & Wilcox boxes from the 90's that do exactly the same thing and have Y-C (S-Video) input as a plus for 1/10th of that price. If they come up with a Y/C version for around $250 I may consider it. I've also been using the BrighEye 75 for over 5 years which is exactly the same thing. I look forward to their VCR RF module, This composite device is just an old technology revived.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 20:01 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
dellsam34 wrote:
$800 is too steep for me for a composite only device, I just got two Snell & Wilcox boxes from the 90's that do exactly the same thing and have Y-C (S-Video) input as a plus for 1/10th of that price. If they come up with a Y/C version for around $250 I may consider it. I've also been using the BrighEye 75 for over 5 years which is exactly the same thing. I look forward to their VCR RF module, This composite device is just an old technology revived.



the Snell & Wilcox does the same thing??

as I can remember, I was very disappointed when I was able to test it.

also their scaler back then , the Interpolator Gold , was not worth it's money.


we will see how this unit will perform.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 21:52 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3370
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 208 times
As far as I can tell, this device is tuned for security cameras which means it is only 2D 3-line or 4-line. I am curious to know if I am wrong in my assumption.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 06:28 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
substance wrote:
As far as I can tell, this device is tuned for security cameras which means it is only 2D 3-line or 4-line. I am curious to know if I am wrong in my assumption.


from their manual:

SM03 accepts analogue NTSC-M, PAL or SECAM encoded video which it decodes to a component
serial digital interface (SDI) output. Decoding is performed using a proprietary 3D comb filter to
maintain the best detail with the lowest artifacts.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 06:32 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
link to the manual:

https://www.singmai.com/Documents/SM03% ... %200.1.pdf
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 07:10 
Knows how to post
Knows how to post
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2021, 02:34
Posts: 8
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
nidi wrote:
the Snell & Wilcox does the same thing??

as I can remember, I was very disappointed when I was able to test it.

also their scaler back then , the Interpolator Gold , was not worth it's money.


we will see how this unit will perform.


I don't know how you used it but those are SDI devices, Analog in, SDI digital out, They don't work as analog in analog out. 3D comb filter is not a new technology, JVC had it on their VCR's back in the early 90's, Some PCI capture cards has good 3D comb filtering if we are talking about capturing. For me personally I don't capture LD's most of those movies are on Blu-ray already, VHS and home videos capturing is my main concern which a 3D comb filter is not needed because I use Y/C output which is already separated.

I hope they come up with an affordable Y/C device so I can compare it with my S&W and BrightEye devices, I'm already getting pretty good captures, customers are happy, I'm not too sure if a new device will make a difference since most of those ADC chips are designed in the 90's so there is nothing new here.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 07:18 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
nidi wrote:





Specs:

Motion adaptive, minimum delay 3D comb filter (frame, field, line, notch selected on a pixel by pixel basis).
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 07:21 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
dellsam34 wrote:
nidi wrote:
the Snell & Wilcox does the same thing??

as I can remember, I was very disappointed when I was able to test it.

also their scaler back then , the Interpolator Gold , was not worth it's money.


we will see how this unit will perform.


I don't know how you used it but those are SDI devices, Analog in, SDI digital out, They don't work as analog in analog out. 3D comb filter is not a new technology, JVC had it on their VCR's back in the early 90's, Some PCI capture cards has good 3D comb filtering if we are talking about capturing. For me personally I don't capture LD's most of those movies are on Blu-ray already, VHS and home videos capturing is my main concern which a 3D comb filter is not needed because I use Y/C output which is already separated.

I hope they come up with an affordable Y/C device so I can compare it with my S&W and BrightEye devices, I'm already getting pretty good captures, customers are happy, I'm not too sure if a new device will make a difference since most of those ADC chips are designed in the 90's so there is nothing new here.





All of my Scalers have SDI Inputs.

you may remember a time when DVD Players were modified to SDI outputs.

this is the most pure output you can get for SD.

even Lumagen had optional SDI inputs on their older scalers.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 07:27 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
dellsam34 wrote:

I don't know how you used it but those are SDI devices, Analog in, SDI digital out, They don't work as analog in analog out. 3D comb filter is not a new technology, JVC had it on their VCR's back in the early 90's, Some PCI capture cards has good 3D comb filtering if we are talking about capturing. For me personally I don't capture LD's most of those movies are on Blu-ray already, VHS and home videos capturing is my main concern which a 3D comb filter is not needed because I use Y/C output which is already separated.

I hope they come up with an affordable Y/C device so I can compare it with my S&W and BrightEye devices, I'm already getting pretty good captures, customers are happy, I'm not too sure if a new device will make a difference since most of those ADC chips are designed in the 90's so there is nothing new here.




yes, the technology is old, but this device uses FPGA and software to make the 3D comb better and

make the decision what type of filtering to use even better than the old filters.

I urge you to read the manual (link above) , there is a very good explanation of how this device works.

just imagine what can be accomplished with this.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 16:00 
Knows how to post
Knows how to post
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2021, 02:34
Posts: 8
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Again I don't use composite, I capture only Y/C tape based formats, so I don't need comb filtering.
As of S&W you used the SDI input not the output, If you are scaling in the digital domain that's completely a different application and you are comparing apples to oranges as this SM03 does not have SDI input, only composite.


Last edited by dellsam34 on 17 Jul 2021, 20:00, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 19:27 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
dellsam34 wrote:
Again I don't use composite, I capture only Y/C tape based formats, so I don't need comb filtering.
As of S&W you used the SDI output not the input, If you are scaling in the digital domain that's completely a different application and you are comparing apples to oranges as this SM03 does not have SDI input, only composite.



for being able to use a comb filter , you need a Composite input.

your devices with Y/C output already went to a comb filter, with makes comparisons useless
to other comb filters.

every composite recording based format needs to have a composite output to test comb filters.

most older tape based systems are composite.

so I'm not comparing apples with oraanges.

you didn't mention what system your tape baased system uses, but I bet it records in composite
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 20:00 
Knows how to post
Knows how to post
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2021, 02:34
Posts: 8
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
I use S-VHS and Hi8 machines to capture regular VHS and 8mm format tapes, I'm only concerned about the capture quality of the Y/C part which as I said BE75 and S&W I use do great capturing using SDI output. I will test a Y/C version of the SM03 when it becomes available at a reasonable price and compare the quality of Y/C capturing with my existing gear. Ultimately I'm waiting for the RF version to modify one of my VCR's to capture directly from the video head.

You said you tried S&W but you only mentioned SDI input, I don't know how you compare it to the SM03 since it doesn't have SDI input.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 12:19 
Third post and above
Third post and above
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2021, 12:30
Posts: 3
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times
Quote:
I just got two Snell & Wilcox boxes from the 90's that do exactly the same thing and have Y-C (S-Video) input as a plus for 1/10th of that price. If they come up with a Y/C version for around $250 I may consider it. I've also been using the BrighEye 75 for over 5 years which is exactly the same thing. I look forward to their VCR RF module, This composite device is just an old technology revived.


The Snell and Wilcox CVR45 use a 5 line comb filter for PAL, they have no 3D comb filter from recollection (I used to work for Snell and Wilcox - designing video decoders).

It is true, if you have a YC output then a comb filter may not improve image quality. However, it depends on the original source. It is likely the original source has gone through many decode/encode paths and these are not likely to have been subcarrier locked, so a comb filter can remove these artifacts even from a YC source.

Our 3D comb filter offers advantages over 'conventional' 3D combs, particularly when the phase relationship required for the comb to work has been lost - for example in VHS recordings. Our comb has a way of restablishing that relationship allowing us to comb video that otherwise would only be low pass filtered.

Also, the SM03 is not just a decoder, but offers video noise reduction, a full frame synchroniser and adaptive contrast enhancement among its features.

We will consider adding YC inputs to a future model, but the existing component cost is much more than $250.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2021, 09:27 
Knows how to post
Knows how to post
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2021, 02:34
Posts: 8
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Maybe a Y-C version for VHS and 8mm players with DIY assembly can bring the price down to $300 range? For me personally my VCR has line TBC and DNR, the BE75 or S&W TBS800 I have both have full frame TBC, So I'm all covered there, I was hoping you guys implement USB 3.0 in your device so I don't have to use an extra SDI to USB interface.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2021, 12:35 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
looking forward to the next FW version.

just compared the Kramer VP-773A with the good old trusted HLD-X0 NEC comb filter chip and Singmai's Composite to SDI box and have to say the Singmai box, even with not finished FW blows both away.

hope Daniel can find some time to get it even better!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 03:21 
Hardcore fan
Hardcore fan
User avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18
Posts: 1181
Has thanked: 305 times
Been thanked: 382 times
Glad to hear that. I'd rather buy from a company with an ear towards the LD community.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2021, 10:52 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2015, 15:40
Posts: 800
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 80 times
nidi wrote:
looking forward to the next FW version.

just compared the Kramer VP-773A with the good old trusted HLD-X0 NEC comb filter chip and Singmai's Composite to SDI box and have to say the Singmai box, even with not finished FW blows both away.

hope Daniel can find some time to get it even better!

nidi wrote:
BTW, I also have the Singmai FPGA solution with SDI output, but it's far from finished yet (FW still in development).

just looked at it again with the SingMai unit.

comb modes:

- Auto
- Notch Filter
- Line Comb
- Field comb
- Frame comb

best results with:

field and frame comb.

picture is the sharpest I've ever seen
400 line pattern is super sharp and has almost NO line movement

Thanks for the feedback nidi. I wonder; is it possible you could post any captures demonstrating the difference? Real world material and/or the good old Video Essentials Snell & Wilcox?
_________________
Looking for Hi-Vision Discs (MUSE or HDVS).......
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2021, 13:52 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
audioboyz1973 wrote:
nidi wrote:
looking forward to the next FW version.

just compared the Kramer VP-773A with the good old trusted HLD-X0 NEC comb filter chip and Singmai's Composite to SDI box and have to say the Singmai box, even with not finished FW blows both away.

hope Daniel can find some time to get it even better!

nidi wrote:
BTW, I also have the Singmai FPGA solution with SDI output, but it's far from finished yet (FW still in development).

just looked at it again with the SingMai unit.

comb modes:

- Auto
- Notch Filter
- Line Comb
- Field comb
- Frame comb

best results with:

field and frame comb.

picture is the sharpest I've ever seen
400 line pattern is super sharp and has almost NO line movement

Thanks for the feedback nidi. I wonder; is it possible you could post any captures demonstrating the difference? Real world material and/or the good old Video Essentials Snell & Wilcox?



well, as the box outputs SDI, I have no way of recording SDI.

anyone can recommend something that can do that perfectly?
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2021, 14:11 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2015, 15:40
Posts: 800
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 80 times
Do you have a display with SDI input?

I currently have no device with SDI input.

Thinking that we'd all need some kind of SDI-HDMI convertor at some point to be able to implement this.

If you are set up for capture I'd think most devices can capture from a non-hdcp hdmi source (though honestly with no capture experience just winging it there). Perhaps just disclosure about what was used to convert to HDMI? The recommended Blackmagic might be ideal as it could be the most common option of any adopters, however just a good representation with disclosure regarding the SDI-HDMI conversion should be very adequate and obviously far better than nothing.

The truth is nothing does anything perfectly.
_________________
Looking for Hi-Vision Discs (MUSE or HDVS).......
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SingMai FPGA external 3D comb filter
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2021, 17:18 
Genuinely interested
Genuinely interested
User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 12:40
Posts: 42
Location: Switzerland
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
audioboyz1973 wrote:
Do you have a display with SDI input?

I currently have no device with SDI input.

Thinking that we'd all need some kind of SDI-HDMI convertor at some point to be able to implement this.

If you are set up for capture I'd think most devices can capture from a non-hdcp hdmi source (though honestly with no capture experience just winging it there). Perhaps just disclosure about what was used to convert to HDMI? The recommended Blackmagic might be ideal as it could be the most common option of any adopters, however just a good representation with disclosure regarding the SDI-HDMI conversion should be very adequate and obviously far better than nothing.

The truth is nothing does anything perfectly.


from the early DVD days, I used SDI as an output, was/is so much better than what component was/is capable of.

started with the Crystalio 1 , went up to the Chtystaio II then the Radiance XS+

bought a Blackmagic Terranex SDI to HDMI converter, which I haven't used yet.

was hoping to use an external capture device , like the Blackmagic Design Video Assist 3G.

am hoping to find someone who could tell if it's worth it.
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 3 of 4 [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: