It is currently 29 Jan 2022, 12:05




 Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 17:28 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 532
Location: United States
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times
Here is a new one, we talk so much about comb filters, upscaling, and processing in general when trying to improve the PQ of LD but we never really talk about the quality of the displays themselves.

I have a JVC-DLA RS2000 4k projector and I just added a Panamorph DCR anamorphic lens which makes a huge difference for 2.35 LD's.

This new generation of anamorphic lenses works by having the picture upscaled to 4096x2160p (17:9 native resolution of the projector) by either projector or external processor (I am using MadVR HTPC) then having the lens squeeze the picture back down to proper 2.35:1.

While not adding any actual additional resolution it does add a lot of pixel density because you are now using 2,000,000 or so pixels that would normally be completely wasted with black bars around the picture (all of the pixels are now used and concentrated into the 2.35:1 frame).

I think I have basically topped out the real time processing of LD with my Eval board / MadVR setup but this was a huge step up on the display end of things. Phone camera can not really show but it really is an amazing picture, even by my somewhat high standards -

Image

Image

Image
_________________
Sony HIL-C2EX w/ AC3
Sony HIL-C1 w/ AC3
Kenwood LVD-Z1
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 15:31 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 7559
Location: Dullaware
Has thanked: 932 times
Been thanked: 628 times
This has an MSRP of $5995.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 15:56 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2019, 18:26
Posts: 398
Location: UK
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 147 times
rein-o wrote:
This has an MSRP of $5995.


Brilliant piece of kit without a doubt, but as you say the price…. :wtf:
_________________
Pioneer HLD-X9/CLD-925/CLD-2950
Sony MSC4000
Sony VPL VW500ES
Lumagen Radiance 2144
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 16:17 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3387
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 221 times
Peter will tell you too I am sure but that’s reasonable for a quality lens. Not the cheapest by a long shot but not the most expensive either.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 20:48 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 532
Location: United States
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times
rein-o wrote:
This has an MSRP of $5995.


It does actually cost a fair bit less than that but yeah it's definitely an investment.
_________________
Sony HIL-C2EX w/ AC3
Sony HIL-C1 w/ AC3
Kenwood LVD-Z1
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 11:48 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 532
Location: United States
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times
Picture one is as it comes off the disc on my screen, no zooming.

Picture two is Crystalio II "4:3 Letterbox" which is meant to fill a 16:9 screen.

Picture three is "4:3 Letterbox" with anamorphic lens engaged.

As you probably realize some amount of zooming is necessary for all widescreen LDs (if you want to fill your screen), the quality of the equipment doing this zooming can make or break the picture. Blowing up a low resolution source to fit a 100" screen is no easy task.

What's happening here is part of the zoom is being done digitally by the Crystalio II with the remainder being done optically with the anamorphic lens (proper optical zoom is much better than a digital zoom).

I should clarify there is still a digital upscale happening between picture 2 and 3 it's just not a "zoom" per se. Instead of zooming unused pixels out of the frame you are zooming them into the frame.

Image
_________________
Sony HIL-C2EX w/ AC3
Sony HIL-C1 w/ AC3
Kenwood LVD-Z1
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 15:02 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 7559
Location: Dullaware
Has thanked: 932 times
Been thanked: 628 times
All 3 pictures have horizontal lines, why is that???

Also I do hope all who are into LD know that when you use any device whether or not its an expensive device, you will always lose detail.
I'm not talking about lens, I'm talking about internal digital chip inside machine device zooming.

For example if I use my low budget priced projector, when compared to biancardi's setup looks like its from CVS.
I have a zoom feature on the projector, if I use that the picture gets slightly blown out and less detail.
If I can move the projector to a better position and just use the native resolution its miles better but the throw needs to be different.

In all honestly your LD image should look the same like it did back in the day when you had a mid to high end 27" or larger CRT as it would
on your new LED, LCD, projector or whatever modern device you are using, if it looks worse you either have a bad setup or
you need to adjust your settings.

So those horizontal lines are still a wonder why you get them on all 3 images when you really shouldn't be.
Is this due to the 4K? I don't have 4K my eyes are bad enough at my age that it doesn't get better.

bian-disclamer, I'm not trying to bash, I'm trying to ask questions and learn or I'm trying to post stuff I remember reading or have had
experience with on what equipment I could afford rather than 25-40K worth of equipment.
I think at tops my gear was in the 2000.00 range for all, TV, player, amp etc. I've changed gear over the years, not as much as bian but
also have read stuff and actually grew up with my father buying the LD player and few years later owning a superlflat Panasonic TV around 1992 or around there.
And that TV was the highest end from the actual time and ran LD through that and it was fookingamazing for the gear at the time.
GAOO Superflat System Panasonic TV (1993) [PA93-33P]
I'm not trying to win any competition on who had the best gear, I didn't my father did but we didn't have much so it all went into that TV if I remember right.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 15:30 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 532
Location: United States
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times
rein-o wrote:
All 3 pictures have horizontal lines, why is that???

Also I do hope all who are into LD know that when you use any device whether or not its an expensive device, you will always lose detail.
I'm not talking about lens, I'm talking about internal digital chip inside machine device zooming.

For example if I use my low budget priced projector, when compared to biancardi's setup looks like its from CVS.
I have a zoom feature on the projector, if I use that the picture gets slightly blown out and less detail.
If I can move the projector to a better position and just use the native resolution its miles better but the throw needs to be different.

In all honestly your LD image should look the same like it did back in the day when you had a mid to high end 27" or larger CRT as it would
on your new LED, LCD, projector or whatever modern device you are using, if it looks worse you either have a bad setup or
you need to adjust your settings.

So those horizontal lines are still a wonder why you get them on all 3 images when you really shouldn't be.
Is this due to the 4K? I don't have 4K my eyes are bad enough at my age that it doesn't get better.

bian-disclamer, I'm not trying to bash, I'm trying to ask questions and learn or I'm trying to post stuff I remember reading or have had
experience with on what equipment I could afford rather than 25-40K worth of equipment.
I think at tops my gear was in the 2000.00 range for all, TV, player, amp etc. I've changed gear over the years, not as much as bian but
also have read stuff and actually grew up with my father buying the LD player and few years later owning a superlflat Panasonic TV around 1992 or around there.
And that TV was the highest end from the actual time and ran LD through that and it was fookingamazing for the gear at the time.
GAOO Superflat System Panasonic TV (1993) [PA93-33P]
I'm not trying to win any competition on who had the best gear, I didn't my father did but we didn't have much so it all went into that TV if I remember right.


The frame is paused (actually still stepped) which is causing the lines. My Sony has a very clean direct out which doesn't get much if any digital manipulation so a paused frame looks like that. My intention is not to demonstrate the quality of the picture (I don't have a nice enough camera to do that). My intention is to show the different picture sizes from the same location and how my setup gets the picture from picture 1 to picture 3.

I can assure you I am not blind and do not have lines in my picture lol -

Image
_________________
Sony HIL-C2EX w/ AC3
Sony HIL-C1 w/ AC3
Kenwood LVD-Z1
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 17:35 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 7559
Location: Dullaware
Has thanked: 932 times
Been thanked: 628 times
Ah now I understand, yes pause does wonders for LDs now with newer TVs, projectors etc.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 18:20 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 3627
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 180 times
Been thanked: 708 times
I never truly understood how my anamorphic lens for NEC HT-1100 is supposed to get mounted...

The screw doesn't align and it feels it could fall anytime.

Attachment:
169LENS.jpg
169LENS.jpg [ 19 KiB | Viewed 589 times ]


I'll try again sometimes!

Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 DHS-8.8 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 LG-1 MSC-4000 Radiance2144 P7 MC257
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2021, 15:41 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 532
Location: United States
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times
I just upgraded my screen to 130", now this is Laserdisc the way it was meant to be -

Image

Image

Image
_________________
Sony HIL-C2EX w/ AC3
Sony HIL-C1 w/ AC3
Kenwood LVD-Z1
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2022, 21:12 
Serious fan
Serious fan
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2020, 22:36
Posts: 192
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 25 times
Any comparison or comment on improvements of the lens vs. power/memory zoom/shift on the JVC?

I do 2.35:1 via power/memory zoom/shift on my Epson 4000 and don't think I could go back to a 16:9 screen in a dedicated theater. I'm sure I could get better results from an outboard VP, but I currently let my AVR handle comb/A-D/deinterlacing to 640x480 and ship that via HDMI to the projector to scale and zoom for AR (fairly certain just to 1080p, with 4K Shift only being utilized for 4K sources). I just can't bring myself to invest any further in LD specific hardware given my collection size and how often I spin a disc (once a month at best).
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2022, 18:03 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 532
Location: United States
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times
shopkins82 wrote:
Any comparison or comment on improvements of the lens vs. power/memory zoom/shift on the JVC?

I do 2.35:1 via power/memory zoom/shift on my Epson 4000 and don't think I could go back to a 16:9 screen in a dedicated theater. I'm sure I could get better results from an outboard VP, but I currently let my AVR handle comb/A-D/deinterlacing to 640x480 and ship that via HDMI to the projector to scale and zoom for AR (fairly certain just to 1080p, with 4K Shift only being utilized for 4K sources). I just can't bring myself to invest any further in LD specific hardware given my collection size and how often I spin a disc (once a month at best).


With combination of lens and MadVR everything is automated, 2.35 content fills the screen and anything else is automatically shrunk to fit top to bottom leaving bars on the side.
_________________
Sony HIL-C2EX w/ AC3
Sony HIL-C1 w/ AC3
Kenwood LVD-Z1
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anamorphic Lens
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2022, 00:14 
Serious fan
Serious fan
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2020, 22:36
Posts: 192
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 25 times
Did you use power-memory zoom prior to getting the lens? If so, how does it compare in terms of clarity/resolution before/after?

So you're giving up a bit of horizontal resolution in exchange for simplicity (post setup)? I'd gladly make that compromise, especially with 1080p content that's already scaled up anyway. I'd love it if my Shield could even scale just its UI to fit the 16:9 portion of a 2.35:1 image, but it's not an option.
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: