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 Post subject: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2022, 14:32 
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So it turns out that a trillion years ago there was this yoke in (then) West Germany that was similar to CED/VHD and it was called TED.

In all fairness it looks crap. :thumbup:





Time to add TED to the LDDB Julien? :D
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2022, 15:04 
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Damn that looks like some nice stuff right there.
Love the first video how he's got it connected with a car battery charger and more.....

Looked very soviet to me at first before I started the pic, then I saw it was made in Germany, wonder if this was an GDR product?
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2022, 15:22 
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Yes, a most interesting TeD you’ve unearthed there ted :thumbup:

Somehow I don’t think I’ll be rushing to replace my 925 with one of these contraptions just yet though! :)
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2022, 11:20 
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So I had a dig around to see if I could find any more juicy goss with regards the TeD Videodisc while munching my Corn Flakes this morning. I came upon this whopper Web site called World Radio History (it's a proper vault of material you could easily lose yourself in for aeons if you like this sort of stuff).

Anyway, it turns out there's some articles available to view and after some.research I found this little beaut:

https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-E ... e-0468.pdf

It's from Les Brown's (yep, good aul Les-o, great lad) Encyclopedia of Television 1977, and mentions:

Quote:
"The discs of the TeD, Philips/MCA and Thomson-CSF systems revolve at 1,800 rpm for the American NTSC television system and 1,500 for the CCIR-PAL and SECAM systems."


Yeah, triffic.

Then the article goes on to talk about the evolution of video recording, specifically VTR's (aka what would become VCR's and then Laserdisc, TED, VHD, CED, AHD and on and on...).

I nearly choked on a stray Corn Flake when I read this:

Quote:
"The first VTR to be publicly demonstrated was built by Bing Crosby Laboratories in 1951. The tape ran at 100 inches per second, with a total of 16 minutes recording time per reel. The picture had. poor resolution, flickered and displayed a diagonal pattern."


BING. F'ING. CROSBY!!?? :crazy:

More research required!

So I dug further and it does indeed turn out that Bing Crosby basically invented video tape recording.

BING. FECKING. CROSBY.

UNREAL.

Turns out aul Bing, aka The Crosby Show, Der Binger, Crozza, Crozzola etc sank tens of thousands in to developing stuff like this. My mind is blown.

Also, I had a look at some mag from 1974 that discusses TED videodiscs and mentions that French electronics darlings Thompson had invented a Thompson-CSF disc that could play both TED discs and their own CSF discs but using lasers instead of the stylus that TED uses! And I quote:

Quote:
Now along comes a major French firm which claims it has a laser -beam opto -electronic videodisc system which can play back its own discs and the Telefunken discs, and poten- tially any other disc which spins at a rate synchronous with the TV frame rate (1,500 rpm in Europe, 1,800 for the American and Japanese TV systems). At the VIDCA videocas- sette -videodisc conference here, Thomson-CSF an- nounced (but didn't demon- strate) the development of this compatible system, designed to retail at a price rivalling the Telefunken system's $450, and claimed it would play back 20 - to 25 -minute LP discs as well as Telefunken's 10 -minute records. The Thomson-CSF disc, as already reported here, is transparent, rather than reflec- tive. A low -powered laser is beamed through the disc, and tiny "pits" in the flexible disc's surface refract the light. The refracted light is then trans- lated into video and audio signals. The Thomson disc, like the Telefunken version, floats on an "air cushion," and Thomson engineers claim that this air -bearing effect makes unnecessary elaborate servo systems to keep the laser beam focused exactly on the pits pressed into the disc. Thomson claims that its sys- tem can play back a Telefun- ken pressure -type disc, if the latter is pressed on transpar- ent plastic. The laser beam is said to be able to read the hill - and -dale impressions on the Telefunken disc system as well as the pits on Thomson's own discs. Thomson officials also said they are working on tech- niques to play back Philips discs with their equipment. As are Philips, MCA and Telefun- ken, Thomson is currently wooing manufacturers in the United States, Japan and Europe.


The full mag is here:

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-R ... 974-01.pdf

Happy Sunday (or Monday for you folks in Australia and New Zealand that live in the future!).
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2022, 11:44 
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I held a presentation about disc based home video formats a while back at work, which lead to me having to do some research on TeD as well. It took me a while to realize that the flexible disc folded around a cylinder when inserted into a player, like you would load a paper into a typewriter, which is pretty nuts and is also probably why so many of the discs haven't really stood up to the ravages of time. Although them being almost 50 years old probably doesn't help. I was never able to find out if the discs are single or dual sided and if the 10 minute runtime is for one side or the whole disc.

Probably because of Finland's proximity to Germany, my boss had actually heard of it. I guess at least a few people over here imported the things back in the 70's, even though every single thing released on it would only be in German.
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2022, 11:59 
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I would imagine TeD was probably single sided given the runtimes were between 5 and 10 minutes per disc?

Regarding sales figures I read similar on the Radio History site but can't find the article, but Wikipedia says essentially the same thing I found:

Quote:
Within the first three months 6,000 players had been shipped to 2,500 dealers, and 50,000 discs were in the shops. Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd. of Japan, which had been conducting similar research itself (but was by now also developing the V-Cord videocassette recorder), was granted a licence to produce a version that would play out in the NTSC television format and by the end of 1976 had devised a long-awaited auto-changer that took 12 10-minute discs.


This is a cached page from World Radio History that unfortunately gives a 404 error:

Quote:
Some 15,000 Ted videodisc players have been produced, but of an estimated 6,000 delivered to retailers it's thought that only about 2,000 have been sold. The outlook seems rather bleak if an advanced piece of domestic electronics fails to catch on in the German market.
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2022, 13:13 
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I wonder what happened to the remaining 9000 units.
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2022, 14:51 
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takeshi666 wrote:
I wonder what happened to the remaining 9000 units.


Bing Crosby probably bought them. :D
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2022, 15:49 
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I can't find it so the account's probably long gone, but someone did post TED captures onto Youtube, and some of the disks were in half-decent shape. (I think that was the original source for the second video)
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2022, 15:56 
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happycube wrote:
I can't find it so the account's probably long gone, but someone did post TED captures onto Youtube, and some of the disks were in half-decent shape. (I think that was the original source for the second video)


Would TED discs be 'Domesdayable'?
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2022, 23:16 
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I have posted an old article from a swedish "men's magazine" from 1976, Se #2. It is in Swedish but there is a couple of cool pictures, really dig the one with the boy on the very 70's living room.
https://herrtidning.com/2022/02/01/tv-skivspelaren-ted-en-statussymbol-1976/
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2022, 15:12 
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teddanson wrote:
Would TED discs be 'Domesdayable'?


If there was enough interest and disks captured, probably.
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2022, 18:32 
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Here's another demonstration on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz5tYH7N7d0
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 Post subject: Re: LD, VHD, AHD, CED and now TED!
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2022, 19:24 
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Here's the section on TED from "Revolutionary Technology" by David K. Matthewson:
Quote:
Teldec
It was in Berlin in June 1970 that three companies demonstrated what they called 'the world's first video disc for monochrome recording' — presumably they were conveniently forgetting the work of J.L. Baird. AEG-Telefunken and Decca had formed a joint subsidiary called Teldec to develop this video disc system which was demonstrated in colour in August 1971. The commercial launch in West Germany was in 1974 and 1975 saw a change of name to TeD and the addition of stereo sound, but by 1980 the system had disappeared from the commercial scene. Although obsolete, the simplicity of Teldec makes it ideal as an introduction to understanding some of the problems that all disc systems have to overcome.

The Teldec disc was 210 mm in diameter, 0.1 mm thick and made of polyvinyl chloride (PVC). In other words it was a floppy disc, very similar in appearance to the audio discs sometimes given away in magazines. A single frame was recorded in each revolution, giving a rotational speed of 1500 rev/min, and in keeping with the audio record industry a ratio of 2:1 was used for the ratio of diameter of the outer to inner grooves. This leads to 140 grooves per millimetre for a 25-frames per second, 625-line picture and hence a playing time of five minutes. In 1973 this was increased to ten minutes per side by a rearrangement of the disc pressing technique.

The groove spacing on the original system was only 7.3µm, and 'hill and dale' modulation was employed. This was the system that Edison used on his phonograph, but which was displaced by the lateral modulation system that is used on current aduio LPs Rather than direct recording, a carrier of constant amplitude is frequency modulated by the video signal. Because of this, only crests and troughs of constant height are engraved in the microgrooves. The disc in fact does not rest on a turntable but, being almost weightless, floats on a cushion of air which is forced up under the disc by the drive motor (see Fig. 1.3). A central vertical shaft holds the disc in place.
Attachment:
teldec.jpeg
teldec.jpeg [ 84.1 KiB | Viewed 2127 times ]

We have already noted that a mechanical stylus is used to retrieve the signals from the disc but, bearing in mind the very small size of the grooves, it is not surprising that the normal Teldec stylus is rather different from that found on a normal audio record deck. Remember that the groove is only 0.007 mm wide and 0.001 mm deep — the crests and troughs formed by the signal in the groove are the same order of magnitude as the wavelength of visible light — and that the disc moves at a velocity of 16.1 metres per second. Incredibly, the groove on a single side of a Teldec disc is about 3.5km long!

So it can be seen that the engineering problems to be overcome are quite formidable. Part of the solution was the revolutionary new pick-up made of diamond and shaped rather like a sled runner. The diamond is bonded to a piezo ceramic transducer, which transforms pressure fluctuations generated by the groove waves into an electrical signal. The stylus is about four signal crests in length and is pressed down onto the disc by the pick-up arm. The grooves modulate the stylus and the output signals are fed to the electronic circuits of the player. In common with some, but not all, domestic disc systems the bandwidth of Teldec was less than that of a normal TV signal and so various tricks have to be employed to get a recoverable colour TV signal from the disc. As this problem is common to most domestic video systems we will look at it in more detail.

A normal PAL colour signal has a bandwidth of about 5.0 MHz, which is beyond the capabilities of all domestic video recorders and disc systems, apart from the Laservision optical system. As with an ordinary audio reel-to-reel recorder, the faster the tape speed the better the frequency response. That is why VTRs use a rotary video head system to get a high writing speed — about 4 metres per second. Even so, this gives a bandwidth of only about 3 MHz, still less than the 5 MHz that a broadcast signal requires. Broadcast VTRs can record and replay the full bandwidth signal by using even higher writing speeds, but for domestic use a system called 'colour-under recording' has been developed. In this the full bandwidth signal has the color component, which in PAL is centred around 4.43 MHz, filtered off from the luminance, which in turn is filtered and limited to about 3 MHz. The chroma signal is then divided down to around 600 kHz and recorded under the luminance signal. On replay it is multiplied up by the same factor, giving a normal PAL signal. Admittedly the exact relationship of line frequency to subcarrier frequency has been lost and the resolution has been reduced but for domestic use the results are acceptable. RCA's CED and JVC's VHD both use variations of this theme.

Teldec used a colour-under frequency of 500 kHz which, with the luminance component, fits into the 2.8 MHz bandwidth of the system. However, they also adopted a unique sequential colour system, initially developed for broadcast GTR users, called TRIPAL. This is a line sequential system in which delay lines, filters and electronic switches are used in the master disc recorder to produce sequential red, green and blue signals.

On replay, the stylus produces a composite vision plus sound signal of about 20 mV amplitude, from which the audio is filtered off and demodulated separately. The HF luminance of the video is amplified, demodulated and fed to the matrix adder. The LF chroma is fed to the TRIPAL switch. Since each colour — red, green, blue — is recorded on a line-by-line sequential basis, two delay lines of 64µs (1 line) duration are used to make all three chroma signals available to tehe switch simultaneously. From these the standard B-Y and R-Y colour difference signals are developed and fed to the quadrature modulator. This 4.43 Mhz modulated chroma signal is then combined with the luminance in the adder to from a standard PAL signal. The audio signal is also frequency modulated and recorded along with the vision signal, being filtered out on replay. The sound and vision signals are then combined and sent to the UHF modulator for feeding ot a standard TV aerial socket. Mastering Teldec discs is done via the normal audio disc pressing system, although the discs are stamped from a continuous sheet of PVC. The actual copper blank is cut at only 60 rev/min instead of the replay speed of 1500 rev/min in order to improve the picture quality.

Although relatively robust, production versions of Teldec discs were housed in protective sleeves, from which they were extracted automatically by the player after loading. This system is employed by CED and VHD, and is indicative of the relatively low immunity to physical damage inherent in all mechanical or pseudo-mechanical disc systems. Teldec also demonstrated an 'auto-changer' version of the player capable of taking three different lengths of programme, with a change time of less than one second between discs.

Due to the contact nature of the system, true still frame — repetition of a single groove — was not possible. After all, the design life of the disc was only 1000 plays, which would be used up in about 45 seconds of still play. A 'repeat' function was possible to allow a series of 25 grooves (frames) to be repeated, giving about one second's worth of picture. In Europe in 1976 the player sold for the equivalent of about £120 and discs cost around £2.50.

The engineering problems that the Teldec team overcame are those that face the manufacturers today. The commercial problems — limited and rather expensive software — they failed to beat and the system died. These, too, are the problems that Philips, JVC and others need to take on and overcome today.
Information overload? :)
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