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 Post subject: Onkyo AVR's with ADV7844
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2022, 17:06 
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This is not exactly new information but it has become much more interesting. Several Onkyo AVR's have the ADV7844 comb filter (newer than ADV7842 from Kramer 773 and Eval Board and ADV7800 from Lumagen 2124 / 2144).

What makes this interesting now is I have identified several models which all appear to suffer from the same DSP chip issue which causes a “no sound” fault where the AVR loses the ability to output sound but……can still process video. These three models appear to be plentiful on eBay all with the same issue which makes them very cheap (under $100.00) to purchase and use as video processors for Laserdisc.

I have yet to test these but have researched old posts and videos, all of which seem to agree that the issue causes the amp section to not power on but the video side to work perfectly.

I am waiting on one of each (609 I got for $100.35 shipped, 709 I got for $66.96 shipped and 809 I got for $137.35 shipped). I will do testing next week and start to report back but I see no reason these should not work really well for Laserdisc, especially the 809 which has an HQV Vida chip specifically for upscaling low res content to 1080p. The obvious downside is big and bulky AVR which is only useful for video processing. At a time when all of the ADV7842 options are expensive / hard to get, this should be a cheap alternative.

Onkyo TX-NR609 / Onkyo TX-NR709
- Video path according to service manual composite -> ADV7844 -> Kyoto-G2H -> HDMI out
- ADV7844 is the excellent comb filter for LD https://www.analog.com/media/en/technic ... DV7844.pdf
- Kyoto-G2H Qdeo2 is used for upscaling and can also be found in Oppo BDP-103 and BDP-105 Blu-Ray players
- Can do proper LD zoom
- Can upscale to 4k (3840 x 2160)
- Composite / SVideo output is pure passthrough, no processing

Onkyo TX-NR809
- Video path according to service manual composite -> ADV7844 -> VHD1900 -> Kyoto-G2H -> HDMI out
- ADV7844 is the excellent comb filter for LD https://www.analog.com/media/en/technic ... DV7844.pdf
- VHD1900 (https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/ ... r-vida-099) is HQV Vida which does upscale from 480i to 1080p and then Kyoto-G2H Qdeo2 does upscale from 1080p to 4k.
- HQV Vida in this model adds things like advanced noise reduction and picture enhancements which could make this higher quality upscaling than the NR609 / NR709
- Can do proper LD zoom
- Can upscale to 4k (3840 x 2160) and does so in two steps using two different video processors for maximum quality HQV Vida 480i -> 1080p and Qdeo2 1080p -> 4k
- Composite / SVideo output is pure passthrough, no processing

Temporary repair seems possible if you want to use the audio side also - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeboYI2qzhE&t=441s

Service manuals for video path info - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3m0m6ag2awho ... -kNwa?dl=0
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 Post subject: Re: Onkyo AVR's with ADV7844
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2022, 12:56 
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I received the 609 and the 809 and did some testing over the weekend. Both of these were advertised on eBay as "no sound" issue.

809 - works exactly as I theorized, the audio is dead but the video portion works perfectly
609 - completely dead, powers on but no audio or video

This means that purchasing a cheap "no sound" one is a gamble. My thought is that someone tried to repair the 609 I have by reflowing the chip but overheated it and killed the HDMI board entirely but I cannot know for sure. Once I get the 709 in I will have a better idea of the odds of getting one that works for video. I guess the wildcard will always be did the unit get shelved when it stopped working or did someone just say heck with it and indiscriminately fire up the board hoping to fix it? I know the 809 I have was just shelved per the owner, no amateur repairs attempted.

As far as picture quality goes so far 809 is top notch. I use MadVR Envy for upscaling so that does not really matter to me so much but if someone wants an all in one solution to go from 480i composite input to 1080p HDMI output the 809 would be a really good solution. Onkyo vs Kramer 773 for comb filtering would be the same but for deinterlacing Onkyo (HQV Vida) may have a slight edge and for upscaling I think Onkyo has a clear advantage. I am not a huge fan of the Kramer, to me it is more of a presentation device than one designed specifically for home theater. We don't really know what processor Kramer is using, we do know Onkyo 809 is using HQV Vida.

I did some comparisons of 480p output vs 1080p output vs 1080i output on the Onkyo and on my specific setup I will choose between 1080p and 1080i. The Envy picks quality of algorithms according to available GPU power and 480p60 -> 4k60 is very GPU intensive so if I can send it 1080p60 to start I end up with higher quality results (because Envy can use better algorithms and HQV Vida is doing a good job from 480p - 1080p). The Envy also has AI based motion adaptive deinterlacing (described as similar to Faroudja DCDI but using AI) which is really good so 1080i from the Onkyo may be a good compromise to take a little of the workload off of Envy but still allow it to shine with what it does best.

Onkyo 4k output is a no go for LD, it can only do 4k24, 4k25, or 4k30 so unless you can feed it a 24p signal its no good. There is no way to IVTC LD in real time nor can the Onkyo do any sort of frame blending to force film mode onto the 480i60 LD signal.

More to come, hopefully I get a working 709 and can see how that does with upscaling (no HQV Vida in the mid range 709).
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 Post subject: Re: Onkyo AVR's with ADV7844
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2022, 11:55 
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Here is the S&W zone plate with Onkyo TX-NR809, it is amazing as expected with ADV7844 comb filter -

Image

Another thing I found interesting that only the 809 has (not the lower models without HQV Vida) is different types of noise reduction (labeled noise reduction, Mosquito NR, Random NR, and Block NR). The most appropriate for LD seems to be Random NR which is described as - "With Random Noise Reduction, you can remove indiscriminate picture noise, such as film grain".

Here is a capture without NR (this is 480p out of Onkyo upscaled to 1080p with MadVR) -

Image

And here is same (or very close to same) frame with Random NR set to low -

Image

Here you can compare the two more closely and see that its removing just enough noise and not affecting PQ - https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/28162

Overall very impressed with this Onkyo, I still plan to look at upscaling 480p - 1080p with Onkyo vs MadVR vs Kramer 773.
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 Post subject: Re: Onkyo AVR's with ADV7844
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2022, 13:53 
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One of the things that really intrigues me is the ADV7842 / 7800 devices (Kramer, Lumagen, Eval Board) all appear to cut off information at the top of the picture. I always assumed this was issue with the ADV chips since all devices that use those chips look similar. When I looked at the Onkyo (ADV7844) I noticed the picture was not cut off at the top. I have been debating whether the picture on the other devices was just shifted up or if there was actual missing information.

I think I have proven that the other devices actually clip picture information. Here is both captures overlaid onto one another, when lining up the bottom of the picture everything matches perfectly but by the time we get to the top the Kramer has gone crazy and cut off picture information (even looks like the right side is cut off also). I do not have Eval or Lumagen here to test but I assume they would have same result.

Not sure if this is hardware or software related and who corrected this (Onkyo or ADV), but I think we can say the Kramer, Eval, and Lumagen all cut off information. If the picture was just shifted I should be able to shift it back and have everything line up.

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Onkyo AVR's with ADV7844
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2022, 13:42 
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Very interesting finds. Thank you. :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Onkyo AVR's with ADV7844
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2022, 18:24 
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I was able to verify with Analog Devices that the ADV7842 and ADV7844 are identical with the exception of two additional HDMI inputs. The cut off picture issue is the fault of the company utilizing the chips (registers need to be corrected).

Eval Board - a member has already fixed this issue
Lumagen - theoretically they can fix the issue if they are willing to
Kramer - theoretically they can fix the issue if they are willing to
Onkyo - apparently noticed the issue where no one else did and fixed it prior to implementation of the chip in their devices
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 Post subject: Re: Onkyo AVR's with ADV7844
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2022, 18:33 
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Couple of fun comparisons to show not how good Onkyo is but how bad DVDO VP50 is (composite in) -

Both with orb in motion to be fair - https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/28205

Pixel peeping, see how much color DVDO is bleeding into a gray and white portion of the picture - https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/28193
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 Post subject: Re: Onkyo AVR's with ADV7844
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2022, 01:41 
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fwiw this thread intrigued me to know if any other AVR's make use of the ADV7844 Video Decoder Chip... don't hold me to it as 100% accurate but from a quick search dive..the list below could be a possibility.

Denon
AVR 1712
AVR 1912
AVR 2312/3312 both ADV7844 & ADV8002


Onkyo
TX-NR818 +HQV Vida
TX-NR929
TX-NR3030
HT-R390
TX-NR509
TX-SR309
HT-R690
TX-NR1009 +HQV Vida
TX-NR717
TX-NR3010 +HQV Vida
TX-NR5010 +HQV Vida
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