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HD CRTs-are they worth it?
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4367		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  sdraper [ 22 Aug 2015, 06:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Well that's the really weird thing. Some things are the best I've ever seen for LD and then others look quite bad. I'm now starting to think it may be just revealing many source defects as I've been using it for games, DVDs and BD and found that even what I thought were good transfers show a bit of their limitations on the 960.

It's the older less proficient stuff that really looks poor and very full of noise. And I can't figure out which of the Sony zoom modes simply enlarge for the screen without cropping or stretching. I think it may be the wide zoom one but I'm not completely certain.
I'd hate to think there was just something I'm missing here that would really unlock LD for this set as other than this,the awful geometry and overscan, and the new problem I found of evident phosphor trails...this is a staggeringly good display.
Author:  sdraper [ 22 Aug 2015, 06:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Of course I may just get a rolling cart for my old Wega set and just roll it in front when wanting to spin LDs. I have seriously been considering this.
Author:  alien [ 24 Aug 2015, 10:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Would you guys go as far to say that good quality LCD/LEDs and/or Plasmas are better for LD than 16:9 Wega CRTs?
Author:  elahrairrah [ 24 Aug 2015, 14:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
At least on the model that I used, yes.

I think user "remington" here on the board uses an widescreen CRT and enjoys it. Another user I recall just bought a gigantic widescreen pro CRT and likes it.

So it might depend on the model.
Author:  tasuke [ 24 Aug 2015, 16:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
i dunno, LD looks quite dandy to me on the pair of LCDs i've had since 2011 or so,
first a 42" SAMSUNG that developed issues within warranty period, and then a 46" BEST BUY INSIGNIA
that has served me flawlessly to this day;


Image

Image

Image


other SD sources also look fantastic on the INSIGNIA, at least to my non-JOE KANE approved eyes;

(all are direct source-to-display, no pre-processing)


VHS

Image

S-VHS

Image

VIDEO GAME (PlayStation 1)

Image
Author:  nissling [ 24 Aug 2015, 19:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
elahrairrah wrote:
Another user I recall just bought a gigantic widescreen pro CRT and likes it.

Moi? I didn't buy it, I got it. ;)
The HDMs (as well as the PVMs and BVMs) are reference monitors and I'd say they're as far away from a typical CRT as it can possibly get. It has non of that grayish, soft, cold, forgiving and flickering picture with an awfully obvious shadow mask that you may expect from a consumer model. Either way, the image is ridiculously enjoyable in every possible way and even though it's entirely impossible for me to get it in my house (I've got it out in the garage atm) it's an honor just to have experienced it. However, I'd never try to compare it to a consumer display of any kind. It would be very interesting though to compare it to a modern top of the line pro-OLED monitor side by side and see how much technology has improved over the last 25 years.

A capture from it, running Mononoke-Hime on Blu-Ray in 1080i.
Image
Author:  elahrairrah [ 24 Aug 2015, 20:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Well WEGA's don't have a shadow mask, so that line of CRTs have that going for them at least :lol:

I used to have a Pro CRT as well (originally intended for computer presentations back in the 90s.) It had a nice picture so long as you fed it something high quality in RGB. Trying to feed LD to it straight wasn't all so nice. Wasn't too bad when I used a DVDO line doubler, but I elected to go with a WEGA CRT so I could get an internal 3D comb filter and internal closed captioning.

Been quite happy with that.

The Pro CRT my brother is using now. Surprised that thing is still kicking being nearly 20 years old, but I guess they made those things to last for a while (since they cost $9999 back then!!)
Author:  sdraper [ 24 Aug 2015, 22:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Wow those sound nice, crazy and just like something I'll probably try at some point since I too am addicted to crazy awesome obscure displays.

If anybody can suggest some kind of unit to help with scaling or anything on the 960, it would be greatly appreciated. After comparing everything I've found the set comb filter works best as the es25 is messing with black levels and adding motion smearing. :wtf: :thumbdown: :( :evil:

Going straight composite in then using the black foam board masking technique for the sides works best with the lights out. Then I don't have to worry about zooming to fit the screen. Especially since every mode either crops off a bit or distorts the image. Thus my screen is only 28" 4:3 this way.

I stuck with CRT to avoid the dull look of what modern LCDs do with LD. But this thing is extremely revealing no matter what you do and is practically begging for some kind of processing enhancement with LDs. Everything SD does this, even PS2 games are far too revealing. I had to run component to get better, and the PS3 scaling fixes everything else that is DVD.
Author:  dc_carguy [ 27 Aug 2015, 01:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Does anyone have any thoughts on the KV-36HS420 ?
looks to be one of the last of the WEGA line circa-2004, has HDMI input
how does this set compare to KV-40XBR800?
Author:  elahrairrah [ 27 Aug 2015, 14:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
It's a Hi-Scan tube like the XBR800 series, so I would say the picture quality would be about the same. Bout the only outward differences I can see is that the 420s have HDMI instead of DVI like the XBR800s (so you won't have to find a pesky HDMI-to-DVI cable or adapter--and sometimes you get the wrong one) and the 420s don't have Picture-in-Picture like the XBR800s, but that isn't a very useful item these days unless you like doing video comparisons.

Also has a 3D comb filter, but not sure if it's the same filter as in the XBR series.

Checking the spec sheets (click on "Marketing Specifications" link on these pages) . . .

HS420s

XBR800s

. . . another feature I see that the XBR800s don't have that the HS420s do is "Vertical Center Adjustment." Not really sure what that does though--possibly a means to move the picture up and down?

All in all though, you really can't go wrong with the later 4:3 WEGA series so long as you get a Hi-Scan or Super Fine Pitch set.

I picked up a KV-32HS510 (similar to the XBR800s series and precursor to the HS420 models) for my mom off of craigslist for free for my mom, and it kicks butt. Much better than the SD KV-32FS120 that she had before.

Sony 3D comb filters and 4:3 screens FTW!!

EDIT: Okay, taking a look at the Spec Sheet for the KD-36XS955 (Super Fine Pitch) that I have, this one also has the "Vertical Center Adjustment" as well. I'm guessing that's the feature that lets you zoom in on a 16:9 enhanced screen to fill up the 4:3 picture? Kinda came in handy when I played a 4:3 image DVD on my blu-ray player though the HDMI input.
Author:  dc_carguy [ 28 Aug 2015, 09:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Cool thanks for the feedback
Author:  sdraper [ 28 Aug 2015, 22:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Found what I think might be a fix for non-anamorphic letterbox on 16:9 sony CRTs. Simply set the player to Full or 16:9, (PS3 double on upscale settings) then use the "vertical expand" zoom mode option on the TV set. This corrects the screen so that the letterboxed image is now filling the 16:9 space and the vertical geometry is corrected back out much like scope unsqueezing.
It looks virtually identical to the same film on an anamorphic disc.
Author:  elahrairrah [ 05 Oct 2015, 13:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
bmich1 wrote:
I would make an exception for a Sony KD-36XS955 TV with the SuperFine dot pitch.

There's one for cheap in South Jersey if youv'e anywhere near there . . .

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/5188244292.html
Author:  gumbyandpals [ 23 Oct 2015, 17:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
elahrairrah wrote:
bmich1 wrote:
I would make an exception for a Sony KD-36XS955 TV with the SuperFine dot pitch.

There's one for cheap in South Jersey if youv'e anywhere near there . . .

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/5188244292.html


I found one dumped under a bridge a few weeks back. I almost shed a tear.
Author:  sdraper [ 30 Nov 2015, 19:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Figured out what my problem was finally!

My old FS120 is a great 4:3 SD set, but only has a simple comb filter, and that's why I needed the ES25.

The XBR960 does NOT display 480i. Plain and simple. It will do 480p and 1080i. 720p is auto upscaled to 1080i. Anything SD has three options: Interlaced which upscales in the TV to 960i, Progressive which converts 480i to 480p, and CineMotion which does a 3:2 pulldown.

Thus old games look hideous and are unusable, and only stunning late era LDs really work well. Grrrrr!!! Why in the hell did they remove 480i processing?!?!?!?

So currently, my best option is to run straight composite on the Interlaced setting for upscaled 960i. It looks quite good, if not perfect, and can hold up against DVD or BD played on other inputs. Only problem is the pesky confusing Sony DRC palette settings for setting detail in SD sources. I have no idea what to set it for because you can't turn it off.

I still need to try an external processor like a DVDO or Lumagen, the trouble is finding an affordable one!
Author:  substance [ 30 Nov 2015, 20:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
Look for Lumagen VisionHDQ. It has the same 3D comb filter(TI TVP5160) as Crystalio II. It uses an older generation (silicon image sil504) de-interlacer, same one found in early DVDO Iscan VP30 and older. It is very good for SD film source(3:2 pull down) and above average SD video source deinterlacing. It uses an sw on fpga based HD deinterlacing for both film and video. I believe with the latest fw, it has 1080p passthrough too. Scaling algorithm is the same as their current flagship so it's stellar. It should be valued $100-150.

DVDO Iscan Duo has the better ADV7800 3D comb filter and better SD/HD video source deinterlacing but it's scaling isn't the most suitable for LD. It's market value used is around $450.
Author:  elahrairrah [ 16 Jul 2016, 19:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
So for the hell of it, I'm looking through craigslist for WEGAs and Trinitron TVs. I come across two odd models

Sony KV-36FV310

I'm guessing judging by the date (2003) on the Marketing Spec sheet on that one that it might be the last SD WEGA model that features a 3D comb filter. I suppose for those who don't want their LDs deinterlaced or scaled like they would be on one of the Hi-Scan or Fine Pitch WEGAs, this is probably the latest model worthwhile for them. I imagine old video game consoles kick a** on that one too.

Sony KD-36FS130

This is an odd one as it appears to be an SD tube but features an integrated ATSC tuner! I guess it downscales the received HD signals like a converter box does. Also only features a "Digital Comb Filter." Since the marketing specs (with date of 2006 on it) don't say "3D Comb Filter" must only be a 2D filter. I would imagine this is the one last SD WEGAs released on the US market.
Author:  signofzeta [ 16 Jul 2016, 20:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
I meant to offer advice for the XBR960 on this thread but have been so busy over the past year that I flaked out. Hopefully I'll have to time tonight to write some stuff.
Author:  shopkins82 [ 19 Jul 2020, 08:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
I know this is an old thread, but how are the last few generations of Toshiba 16:9 CRTs? I had a 30" HDMI model 5 years back in the bedroom (free on CL post divorce when I was just replacing things as cheaply as possible) and remember it having a solid picture, but replaced it with a larger 50" LCD fairly quickly. Now that I'm dabbling with LD again I started looking and can get a similar late-model 34" Toshiba HDMI model for free and I still have the cabinet in the bedroom sitting empty. Thoughts?
Author:  gypsy [ 19 Jul 2020, 14:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: HD CRTs-are they worth it?
shopkins82 wrote:
I know this is an old thread, but how are the last few generations of Toshiba 16:9 CRTs? I had a 30" HDMI model 5 years back in the bedroom (free on CL post divorce when I was just replacing things as cheaply as possible) and remember it having a solid picture, but replaced it with a larger 50" LCD fairly quickly. Now that I'm dabbling with LD again I started looking and can get a similar late-model 34" Toshiba HDMI model for free and I still have the cabinet in the bedroom sitting empty. Thoughts?


If you won't kill your back and it doesn't have bad issues I'd say go for it. The big thing as with any TV is usage. Even though it's free you really don't want one with a worn out tube that looks like crap, has discoloration etc
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