We have to remember that early video games had very low resolution (I believe it was usually around 240 vertical) so no matter what we do with the signal to get it to a 1080p resolution it will look "ugly." With that said, using high end scalers should minimize ugly digital artifacting. I don't know whether you want to invest in this as good scalers can go for well above $1000 dollars. Another thing you can try is a "negative" zoom on your high def display or video converter. In other words zoom the picture down to 1/3 so that you get a smaller "video game window" on your high def set. This will make the image smaller but should also reduce the nasty effects of enlarging the image. If you could get the image down to 1/4 of the display then there will be very little pixel to pixel distortion. You would probably need a rather large TV or projector but it may work out ok.

I've reached what I feel is a satisfactory and often impressive level of PQ from my laserdiscs on my TV and it's leagues better than my original setup.

Originally (early this year) my first player was a CLD-3070 (signal/noise 47 db) outputting composite video straight to my DLP style HDTV (Mits 60638). I was excited to finally get my first LD player but I'll admit I was disappointed with the picture quality which basically a nudge better than VHS (Keep in my I'm referring to LD on a 60" screen compared to my memories of VHS on a 27" CRT).

Since that time I've upgraded to the CLD-704 (S/N 51 db) which made an immediate and dramatic difference. The other big improvement came after reading this thread when I purchased a cheap Sony DVD-recorder from Craig's List and ran the composite video into it and let the Sony output component video to my display. These 2 upgrades have massively improved my viewing enjoyment and overall opinion of the entire LD format.

In terms of TV settings and calibration I have my choice of noise reduction through the player, DVD Recorder, and TV. I've had the best results by leaving the DVD-Rec and LD player DNR turned off and using the minimum/low setting on my TV. I also turned the sharpness on at 20/100 which I feel improves the picture without adding any artificial qualities and made sure "Film Mode" was turned off.

I'd like to experiment with adding a line doubler at some point in the future but for now I'm happy. LDs look great, not quite DVD quality but definitely not distracting even in enlarge/zoom mode. Before I pretty much had to watch my discs windowboxed and even then it looked less than impressive.

Ucfmatt-- I've tried many a line doubler and scaler. Personally I don't care for the images they produce. I've concluded after trial and error that the standard composite input is the best way to go. Tweak the TV image settings from there and use film mode. On the later model Japanese models you can correct that washed out look that was inherent to lds by using the D-ext. The 704, especially if you hook it up to a modern crt puts out a nice picture. If your crt tv is 2004 and up set the 3d comb filter to on and let it do it's thing.

Your right it doesn't have the line resolution of dvd but the film-like quality that it displays compensates for that I feel. Digital tvs are another story. I probably sound like a broken record but they are not DESIGNED for an analog picture. It doesn't mean you can't get a decent picture out of them, especially plasma, but I feel I can never get it perfected on those sets. Invest in a projection crt if you can, preferably Mitsubishi or Samsung.

Composite would only be the best method to use if your CRT TV, monitor or projector has a superior comb filter than any other you have or can afford.

On any TV that does it's own scaling of non-native sources (all fixed pixel displays and most HD CRT TVs) giving the TV a composite signal (or any 480i signal) straight from the player would only be the best option if the TV has superior scaling and/or deinterlacing to any other scaler and/or line doubler you have or can afford.

From the first page of this thread is seems like DVD recorders have a comb-filter superior to most TVs or LD players. I run the composite into a DVD-recorder and let it separate the picture and pass the signal to my TV in component form. This is what user Nems suggested and I can say it does indeed make a difference.

Naiaru-- Thats what I wrote, use the crts comb filter especially on the later model tvs. The comb filter on almost every laserdisc player was only as good as late 90s technology. Let an advanced filter take over. I did not address comb filters on digital monitors.

I didn't write that one should ever use the comb filter in a LD player. There are a variety of comb filters you can put in between your player and display (DVD recorders, most scalers/line-doublers or devices specifically built for separation to Y/C).

The guy you were responding to has a digital display, that's why I was writing about them.

Most display devices, TVs especially, have processors of much poorer quality than can be found in external devices.

Thats true, most (higher end) external devices to have better filters than tvs but personally I have never seen any dramatic improvement with them. Believe me, I've tried many. There is really only a few or more things you can do to improve laserdisc images IMO. I have never seen an image look better than on a standard, "modern" (04 &up), non-projection crt. Of course then you have to deal with the small screen size. It is fun stuff to play around with though and I have to admit that I'm still looking for some further degree of enhancement. Preference is a big thing for everyone. We can only pass along what seems to have worked for us (collectively).

That makes sense. So when ranking the different types of displays (and ignoring projectors for now) I guess it might look like: CRT > CRT Rear Projection > full HDTV

Where would the first few generations of 16:9 1081i HD-ready displays fall on that scale? Would these offer any LD benefit over the modern 1080p sets due to their lower native resolution or would this not even make a difference? Maybe something like this: http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/vide ... ro710.html

One day I'd like to get a non-HD set exclusively for viewing laserdiscs but even if I went with the largest CRT at 36" that's a loss of 71% viewing area compared with my 60" 16:9 set when you factor in the widescreen black bars.

1080i (native) sets would benefit in that they wouldn't have to deinterlace the image, but they'd still have to scale it (though most artifacts and delays stem from deinterlacing).

CRT TVs are more likely to overscan than modern digital HDTVs, so you'll need a scaler anyways to underscan the image (unless you're willing to fiddle with the service menu or just lose the 5-10% of the image).

I hear what your saying. For big screen action I feel a CRT projection set is well worth experimenting with. A Samsung 52 inch crt projection from 2006 throws out a nice theartre-like image for laserdisc. The late models have all the inputs you need to play with but composite is still the best. Plasma seems to be the best of the digital era tvs for laserdisc. This is mosly because of it's ability to retain deeper blacks that effect contrast. I'd love to try a Pioneer Kuro (plasma) with a laserdisc.

So now I'm thinking of getting a DVD recorder of my own for LD connectivity purposes as well as for recording TV programs, since S-VHS tapes are getting harder to come (and pricey) by while DVD-R/+R/DL discs are easier to come by (and cheaper!)

Only thing is, these units are even becoming harder to find! I have a Best Buy gift card that I'd like to utilize, but their pickings are only Magnavox, Toshiba and Panasonic (with the Panny being the priciest.) I don't really care about their innards (tuners, inputs, etc.) other than the comb filter. Don't suppose anyone might have any idea of how good the filters are in these recorders? I'm hesitant to go with the Toshiba because of the test I did with my parents' Toshiba DVD Recorder, but no not much about the Magnavox or the Panasonic

Here are the models:

Magnavox DVD Recorder

Toshiba DVD Recorder

Toshiba DVD Recorder/VCR Combo 1

Toshiba DVD Recorder/VCR Combo 2

Panasonic DVD Recorder/VCR Combo

I have the Panny model you have listed. Excellent comb filter. A few years ago I bought it new for 300.00+. You can shop for other names that are way up there in price but IMO the comb filter is not going to be that much better than this Panasonic. How do you plan to run the wiring?

Well, I'd have to test it to see which setup gives a better picture--either LD S-Video straight to TV or Composite LD-to-DVD Rec-to-TV.

Even if it doesn't make too much of a difference with the LD player, I'll still use it for recording to DVD and just keep the S-VHS decks for playing back the few VHS tapes I have (though I might transfer my S-VHS recordings to DVD as well.)

Another note on this subject of DVD recorders; am I to assume that the DVD/VCR combos might have better comb filters than the standalone DVD recorders because they know they have to help clean up the VHS picture with it VCR being integrated into the unit? Or do they have the same comb filters? Specifically the Panansonic units?

The DVD-VHS combos are typically not very integrated at all. They tend to be, basically, a VHS deck & a DVD player stuffed into one box.

Some dvd/vcr recorders are actually equal to a stand alone dvd recorder. It is not always the case that because both formats are combined into one unit, the comb filter is non existent or impaired. Recent Panasonic specs shown them to be the same. As always, variables must be considered. Panasonic and some other companies that I know of don't disclose comb filter information in manuals or through customer service. It's sort of a trade secret, just like Coca-Cola's formula.

A comb filter is typically evaluated by a trained technician who literally assembles or disassembles the unit. A technician friend of mine examined a bench unit of the Panny VCR/dvd in question and disclosed to me that that it is comparable to a stand alone dvd recorder. Panasonic holds it's own with many high end electronics.

Use the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle, need USB 3.0 on the motherboard. Works slick for outputting the signial via HDMI or just digitize the file directly to a hard drive. Many options.
Elvis

does anyone know a videocard without hardware encoding ? havent been able to find any at all yet.... ?

I have just gone through some dvd recorder manuals and Pioneer models even have output picture settings for LD players. The only problem is that these recorders usually go for over 80€ on ebay. But I will buy one after Christmas. Hopefully the prices will go down a bit by then.