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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2013, 22:29 
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naiaru wrote:
elahrairrah wrote:
I take it if I'm using the comb filter in my TV, I wouldn't be able to use a TBC?

That's no problem. It has a composite input and output.

circlesky73 wrote:
Well, I got the DPS-290 all set up. Holy Oprah, that sucker works miracles! I have it set up between the DVR recorder and the iScan via s-video, until I can finangle the VGA connection; how difficult is it to make my own?

As for settings, it's all set up at the ''flat' position. No chroma noise, no noise at all! After 5 hours or so of tweaking, LDs look just like DVDs, just no compression artifacts. Thanks for the tip, disclord!!!

Have you used the Y/C horizontal control yet? (I remember disclord told me what test in VE was good for setting that, but I can't seem to find that message. Hopefully he'll chime back in.)

If you can solder then making the adapter shouldn't be too hard. You essentially just have to wire a VGA plug to a bunch of RCA jacks.

Also, what I said previously about changing the fan doesn't require any soldering (if you don't want it to). You can just twist the wires together.




Disclord, sir, can you assist? 8-)
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2013, 01:15 
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The chroma/luma delay pattern is on both VE and AVS - I can't recall the frame numbers, but its a yellow screen with a red stripe running down the center. You adjust the horizontal positioning on the DPS-290 to perfectly align your players chroma and luma - I've found the -070us is the optimal setting for all my players. You don't need to adjust the vertical positioning - that's more for VCR's.

If you have more than one LaserDisc player you can use the proc amp to align each player with the SMPTE color,bars and black/white level and store its settings so you can easily switch back and forth without having to change settings on your television. All players have different tint/hue/black and white level settings so don't ask for recommendations because none are possible - you have to use VE to align the players to your TV for best pic quality.

I haven't found any drawbacks to leaving the luma and chroma video NR on all the time. The component output is very noisy so I wouldn't bother with trying to make a cable for it - Use the S-Video. The comb filter in the unit is pretty good although I use an outboard Crystal Vision unit and the S-Video out on my LJR-II and I use a switch box so all my LaserDisc players are passed through the TBC - I wouldn't want to be without it now.


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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2013, 16:31 
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Thanks much for the tips!
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2013, 01:14 
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I'm also using a DPS-290 courtesy of Disclord's recommendation in another thread and I can definitely vouch for it. The comb filter is a bit dated, but I'd still say it's better than the biggest majority of gear out there.

Newer models such as the DPS-475/DPS-575 have a 3D comb filter, auto calibration to SMPTE bars, etc. Would like to get one eventually and relegate the DPS-290 to noise reduction for VHS since it does a good job on that, too.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 23:57 
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At the risk of sounding like Disclord's stalker ( :twisted: ), I nabbed another of his recommendations yesterday: a Panasonic LX-900. It should arrive Monday or Tuesday. Opinion posted soonafter. :clap: :mrgreen: 8-)
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 17:10 
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Check out megapixie's LD and comb filter reviews: http://notonbluray.com/blog/comb-tb-tests/
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 17:11 
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Can someone please post a review of the Panasonic DMR-E20's 3D comb filter (including pictures)?!
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2013, 18:25 
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I have the EH50 and it's pretty nice, no captures yet though.

The Star Wars JSC is a great torture test - the luma is too sharp so without good comb filtering you'll get major color artifacting. The current version of my decoder chokes on them, but the EH50 does rather well.

I suspect WEA disks are similar, but I need to dig through my collection to find one. Most of my Warner titles appear to be by Pioneer USA.

On the flip side, SuperNTSC disks like Titanic don't even need real comb filtering to look OK.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2013, 20:49 
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happycube: If you get a chance, please do a review like althor1138 did here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic. ... Post636069

In particular, I'm interested in how well the DMR-EH50 performs on the S&W Zone Plate as well as the scene where the Stormtroopers shoot Princess Leia with that blue circular stun blast aboard the Tantive IV in Star Wars.

I'd like to see if there is any checkerboarding on the first frame after the [Princess Leia falls => Stormtroopers] shot-change.

The DMR-ES10, despite having an amazing 3D Comb Filter, exhibits ugly checkerboarding on each and every shot-change.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2013, 23:54 
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acuozzo wrote:
Can someone please post a review of the Panasonic DMR-E20's 3D comb filter (including pictures)?!


I believe I've posted pics of the zone plate and reviewed the comb filter in my DMR-E20 - I couldn't tell you if it was in this thread or not. I can email you so,e pics of the Zone Plate test as processed by the E20.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 00:03 
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I think it's in here, maybe page 2 or 3?
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2013, 04:49 
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I plan to post a review soon, but I'll just come out and say it: The Extron YCS-100 is the best 2D (5-line) comb filter I've ever seen.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2013, 09:25 
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acuozzo wrote:
I plan to post a review soon, but I'll just come out and say it: The Extron YCS-100 is the best 2D (5-line) comb filter I've ever seen.


I've seen these on eBay under several different names like Kramer for cheap. Interested to see what kind of performance you're getting out of it. :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2013, 09:29 
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hauntmedoitagain wrote:
acuozzo wrote:
I plan to post a review soon, but I'll just come out and say it: The Extron YCS-100 is the best 2D (5-line) comb filter I've ever seen.


I've seen these on eBay under several different names like Kramer for cheap. Interested to see what kind of performance you're getting out of it. :thumbup:
The Kramer ones are quite different. They just look similar.

Extron YCS-100: http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=ycs100
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2013, 10:55 
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Oh, yep, sure enough they are. Ignore me, I had it mixed up with all those FC-10D clones.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2013, 14:00 
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acuozzo wrote:
I plan to post a review soon, but I'll just come out and say it: The Extron YCS-100 is the best 2D (5-line) comb filter I've ever seen.


How does it do on diagonals? And how's its chroma resolution? Does Extron make a 3D version or only 2D? Oh, and what's the YCS-100's price?
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2013, 08:31 
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Extron YCS-100 "Review": http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic. ... Post658939

Note: We're (some members at OT.com) primarily interested in using the Extron YCS-100 for capturing, so that's what the "averaged" sample is for. Assuming that you have at least one analog→digital→analog path in your chain, then you can usually invert the phase for the entire capture by simply turning it all off and then on again. You can get a perfect* Y/C separation if (1) the two captures are from the same source (duh!), (2) the phase has been inverted, and (3) the two captures are perfectly temporally-aligned. This is a lot of work, but it's worth it since your finished capture won't suffer from any of the typical 3D comb filter artifacts.

*Unfortunately, this isn't truly "perfect", as there's a loss in diagonal resolution. All of our testing has shown some beautiful results, however, so I prefer this method to a 3D comb filter.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2013, 12:22 
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acuozzo wrote:
Extron YCS-100 "Review": http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic. ... Post658939

*Unfortunately, this isn't truly "perfect", as there's a loss in diagonal resolution. All of our testing has shown some beautiful results, however, so I prefer this method to a 3D comb filter.


As it seem there is no DVD recorder or capture card that could use a 3D comb filter with a PAL signal, it should be the best method to capture a PAL laserdisc. I'm waiting for more info.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 05:24 
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Hello,

I am new to this thread and also I don't post very often. I just got my Pioneer Elite LD-S2 back from Duncan so now I want to digitize my LD collection at best possible quality. I plan on making recording into losslessly compressed AVI (or MOV). I absolutely don't want to record anything to DVD 'cause I think lossless is a way to go. Originally I planned to make dual simultaneous recordings:
1. First recording using S-Video #2 out from LD-S2 to ATI USB 600 TV Tuner card (with obviously no motion adaptive 3d comb filter)
2. The other one from LD-S2 BNC (Composite #2) output to either Compro VideoMate Ultra TV Tuner or ATI 550 Theater Pro TV Tuner. Both Compro and ATI 550 TV Tuners have motion adaptive 3d comb filter.

ATI has its own motion adaptive 3d comb filter.
Compro uses NEC D64083 chip for Y/C separation which has 3 different modes: 2d+3d (i.e. it switches to 2d at certain threshold), pure 3d, and 2d + noise reduction. While pure 3d mode performs fairly well on Snell and Wilcox test pattern, it doesn't do the good job in real footage because you may get rainbows during fast movements. So the optimal is 2d+3d mode.

So I did the test capture of one music Japanese LD. I was very happy with S-Video result using ATI USB 600 TV Tuner. The image is sharp, no white smear, no overblown black. The only problem is that it has no 3d comb filter thus you have some grain/dot crawl here and there.

I was not happy with both ATI 550 Theater PRO and especially Compro VideoMate. Both of them can't produce as sharp image as ATI USB 600. And it's not due to S-Video vs Composite motion adaptive. I tried S-Video as well and the sharpness wasn't nearly as close especially on Compro. Also ATI 550 PRO has AGC on and it's not possible to turn it off. It blows up whites a bit. To compensate, I reduced brightness and contrast which made the image darker. In Compro I had to reduce gain level otherwise it would also blow white level up - that also resulted in picture being darker than it is supposed to. If anyone is interested, I can post images of test patterns or real footage. I have both DVD VideoEssentials and LD VideoEssentials. Perhaps someone can advise if I can tweak settings and obtain an ultimate quality picture.

Then I thought to leave both Compro and ATI 550 Theater Pro out of the picture and use a middleman for motion adaptive 3d comb filter. From this thread I noticed Panasonic DMR-ES10 and ES25. ES10 was also advised to me on digitalFAQ.com forum. The question I have is if the motion adaptive 3d comb filter is identical in these units. Disclord suggested in earlier posts to use Component output if possible. So far I don't have such capability since ATI USB 600 only has S-Video and Composite. How better to use Component output from DVD Recorder rather than feeding S-Video? Another thing I noticed is that DMR-ES25 has HDMI out. So I was thinking if it's possible to feed composite in and get already digital SD interlaced signal out and record it using HDMI capture card. If anyone has tried it, please let me know. Also let me know if it's worth trying. If it is, I will buy an HDMI capture card. Thanks in advance.

--Leonid
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 07:22 
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With the capture equipment you have, the S-Video out from the DVD recorder would improve things quite a bit.

HDMI capture from an ES25 sounds good, but I don't have any experience with them.
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